Author Topic: Help please: laptop, flacs ina new media room (Read 7879 times)

rhett · « **on:** September 09, 2009, 09:13:45 PM »

I am in the process of having a new media room built in my basement. Approx 18x15. My thought process is to have a couple of big hard drives to play flacs through. The room will be set up for surround sound 7.1. The guy will run whatever kind of wiring I want wherever I want it. My problem is I really dont know where to begin.

Do I use a laptop and hook into a nice receiver?
Do I use something like a squeeze box?

Looking for some guidance or suggestions

Thanks!

kindms · « **Reply #1 on:** September 10, 2009, 01:38:23 PM »

Quote from: rhett on September 09, 2009, 09:13:45 PM

I am in the process of having a new media room built in my basement. Approx 18x15. My thought process is to have a couple of big hard drives to play flacs through. The room will be set up for surround sound 7.1. The guy will run whatever kind of wiring I want wherever I want it. My problem is I really dont know where to begin.

Do I use a laptop and hook into a nice receiver?
Do I use something like a squeeze box?

Looking for some guidance or suggestions

Thanks!

Do you currently have flac files stored somewhere in your home ? (ie. pc laptop etc) ?

If starting from scratch I would suggest a centralized server to act as your main media storage. A simply PC or mac or whatever can take on this role nicely. Now getting it to your stereo is going to be where you make your decisions.

Option #1
Have your PC / mac media server directly connected to the stereo. This requires that the computer be relatively close to the stereo setup. It also brings the issue of PC related noise in to the mix (ie fans etc etc)

Option #2
Use a squeezebox device. This gives you a lot of flexibility as the media server does not need to be anywhere near the stereo. It can be anywhere in your home provided it can feed a signal to the squeezebox

I went with option #1 when I tied my PC into my stereo. I did this before the squeezebox was out so there really wasn't an option #2. If I was doing it again today w/o question I would use a squeezebox product. It eliminates the need to have a really highend PC soundcard. it eliminates the computer being in proximity, and it has a nice small form factor and from what everyone says sounds great.

I would have the installer run 2 or 3 ethernet runs from the back of the stereo area to a central point where you can tie it in to your computer network. You could also not do any ethernt runs and just use the wireless function of the squeezebox but if i had the opportunity to run ethernet I would do it now. It will allow you to be hardwired for the squeezebox as well as any other systems that you might want to use here (Ps3, xbox etc) also newer HDTVs are coming with ethernet as well. You really only need 1 run and could just add a hub or switch at either end to give yourself the necessary jacks so whatever makes sense to you.

Hope this makes sense.

jbraveman · « **Reply #2 on:** September 10, 2009, 01:59:39 PM »

I would run some ethernet cable.
You can store your files elsewhere on a computer/NAS with plenty of fans etc.
You can then integrate a fanless, noiseless computer into the stereo system.
Same idea with a squeezebox.

rhett · « **Reply #3 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:43:29 PM »

Thanks for the input. Currently I have a shit load of flacs on TY cds plus a couple of hard drives in a dark cool buffet. The installer was talking about running CAD 5 (?) wherever, but he will do whatever I want. I saw that the squeezebox has like a high end one (1500$) that is supposed to be audiophile quality. Is this really necessary?

jbraveman · « **Reply #4 on:** September 10, 2009, 11:10:18 PM »

The great thing about the squeezebox is that it gives you near instant access to everything in your collection. The transporter has a great reputation. Of course, one's need for high end components is a totally personal decision. I'm happy with the sound out of the squeezebox (duet). The touch (coming out in december) supports native sampling rates up to 24/96. I run mine through the spdif input in my receiver, although many people are satisfied with the analog outputs from box itself.

There are also a number of ways to remotely control the squeezebox. There are a variety of controllers, including one with a graphical display that comes with the duet. Also there is software for iphone or touch to control the music. The gui can be brought up on any computer on the same network as the squeezebox. And then there is the remote streaming capability.....

My preference for flac storage is a NAS. I've been happy with the one I built (freenas.org). I don't use RAID, but use automatic backups (rsync) to make backups of the library. I've had bad luck with external drives chained together via usb hubs. If you go the squeezebox route you need a computer running the server software. It makes sense to use that same computer to store the files as well (depending on how much storage you need). You can put your drives in that and dump your flacs off the discs. It does take some time to tag everything so it shows up properly. It's taken me almost a year to populate my system. I've got around 91k tracks at about 4.5 TB. All my CDs are ripped and all my backup DVDs from downloads are gone through.

kindms · « **Reply #5 on:** September 11, 2009, 10:35:26 AM »

Quote from: jbraveman on September 10, 2009, 11:10:18 PM

The great thing about the squeezebox is that it gives you near instant access to everything in your collection. The transporter has a great reputation. Of course, one's need for high end components is a totally personal decision. I'm happy with the sound out of the squeezebox (duet). The touch (coming out in december) supports native sampling rates up to 24/96. I run mine through the spdif input in my receiver, although many people are satisfied with the analog outputs from box itself.

There are also a number of ways to remotely control the squeezebox. There are a variety of controllers, including one with a graphical display that comes with the duet. Also there is software for iphone or touch to control the music. The gui can be brought up on any computer on the same network as the squeezebox. And then there is the remote streaming capability.....

My preference for flac storage is a NAS. I've been happy with the one I built (freenas.org). I don't use RAID, but use automatic backups (rsync) to make backups of the library. I've had bad luck with external drives chained together via usb hubs. If you go the squeezebox route you need a computer running the server software. It makes sense to use that same computer to store the files as well (depending on how much storage you need). You can put your drives in that and dump your flacs off the discs. It does take some time to tag everything so it shows up properly. It's taken me almost a year to populate my system. I've got around 91k tracks at about 4.5 TB. All my CDs are ripped and all my backup DVDs from downloads are gone through.

Nice. It can be a daunting project. I find myself tagging the shows etc early sat and sun morning while the lady is sleeping late. I put on the headphones, have a cup of coffee and get to work.

momule · « **Reply #6 on:** September 11, 2009, 01:04:27 PM »

Squeezeboxes are Wayyy over priced. IMO squeezebox is only a good if you are tech challenged as they are much more stupid proof.

I would suggest a central server and a netbook or lappy to act as an interface. Run some speaker and cat 5/6 cable
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=9829

I would suggest looking for a receiver/tuner that will handle DTS-HD Master Audio & Dolby TrueHD as they are gonna be the new format for blueray.

kindms · « **Reply #7 on:** September 11, 2009, 03:20:42 PM »

Quote from: momule on September 11, 2009, 01:04:27 PM

Squeezeboxes are Wayyy over priced. IMO squeezebox is only a good if you are tech challenged as they are much more stupid proof.

I would suggest a central server and a netbook or lappy to act as an interface. Run some speaker and cat 5/6 cable
http://forums.audioreview.com/showthread.php?t=9829

I would suggest looking for a receiver/tuner that will handle DTS-HD Master Audio & Dolby TrueHD as they are gonna be the new format for blueray.

Not to argue with you but a decent sound card that is going to feed a primary playback system is going to run anywhere from 100 - 200 dollars at least. Of course you can always cut corners and go the cheap route but why bother. He also didnt say this was for movie payback but for audio. If he wants to do video there are some other issues to keep in mind

A squeezebox is only like 200 bucks. It eliminates the need to have the computer right there and has some other nice features like remote etc.

My setup is similar to what you describe. DVI-D> HDTV, COAX > mambo > VR-2's

Netbook alone is going to cost 300 bucks. he already has a computer all he needs is a nice way to interface with his playback

Quote from: rhett on September 10, 2009, 03:43:29 PM

Thanks for the input. Currently I have a shit load of flacs on TY cds plus a couple of hard drives in a dark cool buffet. The installer was talking about running CAD 5 (?) wherever, but he will do whatever I want. I saw that the squeezebox has like a high end one (1500$) that is supposed to be audiophile quality. Is this really necessary?

He probably said CAT-5 which is ethernet (pretty much interchangeable terms). So the guy has a similar idea in mind.

Whether or not you want to go the very high end is up to you but the standard squeezebox will do what you want.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #8 on:** September 12, 2009, 12:58:31 PM »

I agree with using a squeezebox or some other fixed installation client. Using a laptop that you have to connect whenever you want to listen to music is a pain and it can't be available for others when you carry the laptop away from the system.

I didn't get a squeezebox. I bought a Mvix Ultio for thin client. The box will host an internal HDD but I've been putting all my new recordings and transferring all my optical back-ups (audio and video) to a networked server so I'm not bothering with internal storage in the ultio. The UI is a bit clunky but the development core is open source and there is a community building.

(to add) Instead of running cable I would get an N wireless router but if you do run cable you should install cable that will reliably handle gigE.

sygdwm · « **Reply #9 on:** September 16, 2009, 03:35:25 PM »

just another option to consider:

i have a POS pc w/ a maudio audiophile 2496 soundcard (waaaaay less than 200 bucks- esp used), stuffed full of hd's, on my home network, and hooked to my stereo via coax. i have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard if myself or others wanna play "dj" or remote dektop in via my laptop if i dont want to get off the couch.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #10 on:** September 16, 2009, 08:04:09 PM »

Quote from: sygdwm on September 16, 2009, 03:35:25 PM

remote dektop in via my laptop if i dont want to get off the couch.

that reminds me, some of the linux htpc apps expose a web interface. You can probably control the thing using your iphone browser. how cool would that be.

audBall · « **Reply #11 on:** October 15, 2009, 07:52:28 AM »

Chiming in as I might be getting a new laptop soon and am looking for ways to connect to my DAC. I currently run desktop > ap2496 (coax out).

My DAC does not accept USB/Firewire and I'm trying to avoid the PC > external interface method if possible. With PCMCIA a thing of the past, are there any card options to send a digi signal? Are there options to connect to an ExpressCard?

Tim · « **Reply #12 on:** October 15, 2009, 09:51:29 AM »

these have intrigued me for sometime and Stereophile gave both the $300 and $100 versions very good reviews in the latest issue,
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85434
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85279

Absolute Sound has given them great reviews too.

It's on my Christmas list

Tim · « **Reply #13 on:** October 15, 2009, 10:01:18 AM »

Michael - which network server are you using?

audBall · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2009, 10:17:15 AM »

This looks like a decent option for a compact USB > Digi converter:
http://tinyurl.com/yf8ls2t

Here's some extensive discussion about it on Head-Fi:
http://tinyurl.com/yl394dl (edit - <<<why is link not blue?)

Someone states in the thread above that playback through Foobar (using Windows drivers) is not bit-perfect, but it is through KS. ~~What is 'KS'?~~
edit- Found: Kernel Streaming

Todd R · « **Reply #15 on:** October 15, 2009, 11:04:45 AM »

Quote from: Tim on October 15, 2009, 09:51:29 AM

these have intrigued me for sometime and Stereophile gave both the $300 and $100 versions very good reviews in the latest issue,
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85434
http://www.musicdirect.com/product/85279

Absolute Sound has given them great reviews too.

It's on my Christmas list

The problem with those is they are limited to 16bit. I was searching around on this last week, and the only USB DAC I was finding that was 24bit was the Monitor 01 Audball posted.

Actually, the version Audball posted was just a digi converter box, converting USB to spdif (BNC, coax, optical). If you want the similar USB DAC, you need to get the Monitor 01 US which adds analog RCA out and headphone out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350224614201

Unfortunately, the problem with these Monitor boxes is they apparently do not work with Macs, only PCs. On this topic, does anyone know of a relatively low cost ($100-150 range) USB DAC that works on Mac and does 24bit? At this point I'm starting to give up on the idea of going digital out of my iMac via the USB, and using the optical-mini spdif out instead, since that opens up the DAC options immensely.

ashevillain · « **Reply #16 on:** October 15, 2009, 11:32:31 AM »

Quote from: Todd R on October 15, 2009, 11:04:45 AM

On this topic, does anyone know of a relatively low cost ($100-150 range) USB DAC that works on Mac and does 24bit?

Seems like the M-Audio Transit would work for this.

Todd R · « **Reply #17 on:** October 15, 2009, 11:51:26 AM »

Thanks for the tip on the Transit.

I had looked at that, but I thought it was a digi format converter only (USB>spdif) and not a DAC too -- I missed the 1/8" headphone/line out.

Hmm, I'll have to think about that....I wonder how well it performs as a DAC.

I would've preferred RCA outs, but I guess the mini would work. I first looked at it just for the spdif out, but spdif out is optical and it turns out the optical input on my current DAC is fried (only works with the coax input).

Scooter123 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 15, 2009, 12:05:40 PM »

I have your contemplated system, made some mistakes, and am redoing with a new computer.

What I did 6 years ago, is have a rack mount CPU with 3 500g hard drives in a RAID formation so if one fails the data is mirrored on the other two. I use Media Monkey as my juke box. I have a Layla Soundcard into the tape inputs of a rack mounted Adcom set up, with two huge amps, preamp, and sequencer. I added a rack mount battery back up and lights. It is really ugly and with all the fans, is very loud.

What I would do now is have a similar, but remote, rack mounted system, but now understand that you can fit three 1TB drives into a rack mounted CPU now. Alternatively, and this is what I'm planning is to buy a a standard 500g rack mounted computer and CPU with 3-4 external Lacie HDs, probably 4 TB each, one main, one back up, and one third back up, all formatted to back up with Folder Clone. I'd have a network card, and send the RJ45 to the music room. In the music room, I'd have a cheap computer with a sound card to my analog system, probably rack mounted.

Thats what I'd do now.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #19 on:** October 15, 2009, 11:47:58 PM »

Quote from: Tim on October 15, 2009, 10:01:18 AM

Michael - which network server are you using?

I have two. An ubuntu box with xbmc/myth and a dlink NAS with upnp server

Tim · « **Reply #20 on:** October 16, 2009, 10:44:49 AM »

gracias

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2009, 11:13:45 PM »

I have more time to write now so here goes:

I have a pair of 500GB mirrored in the NAS. The NAS is used only to hold masters (master flacs, samplitude project files, etc). That one is getting full and I'm in the process of ripping all my old masters from DAT. So they go to the RAID when I get a pair of 1.5T drives.

The ubuntu box has a small boot drive and a 1TB drive for all of my playable media. To that I have ripped all my commercial CDs and DVD images so I can access then from the HTPC client. The music is organized by artist them album. I have all my authored live stuff and the stuff I download mixed in under the same structure so that when I go looking for an artist everything is under there.

I have the ubuntu box samba mounted on my laptop and I use foobar to playback music, VLC to play back the DVDs. I bought an Mvix Ultio for HTPC. I still haven't streamed with it but I think I'm going to buy a pair of ethernet-over-power bricks this weekend to get traffic to my room with the TV. I have used the ultio to listen to music on an external USB HD and feed analog to the system in there. It's good for that purpose. I would hook it to the big system but I have no monitor in there and I would really rather get an outboard DAC to feed 24-bit from the ultio, but I'm going to wait until CES to see what else comes out that will stream. The ultio is fine for the TV room and streaming DVDs.

The upnp clients I have tested on the laptop work well with both boxes but without proper metadata files or a media DB to drive the upnp interface, it's just file system browsing so I use the samba interface.

Tim · « **Reply #22 on:** October 16, 2009, 11:42:47 PM »

and again I cringe at the thought of having to have an IT guy on call just to listen to my tunes. I feel like MOke when it comes to this stuff

Thanks for the detail Michael.

Jimna · « **Reply #23 on:** October 17, 2009, 03:24:57 AM »

Quote from: sygdwm on September 16, 2009, 03:35:25 PM

just another option to consider:

i have a POS pc w/ a maudio audiophile 2496 soundcard (waaaaay less than 200 bucks- esp used), stuffed full of hd's, on my home network, and hooked to my stereo via coax. i have a monitor, mouse, and keyboard if myself or others wanna play "dj" or remote dektop in via my laptop if i dont want to get off the couch.

damn thats a good idea! my only snag is the need to get up to change music, ill give the remote desktop a try soon.

Tim · « **Reply #24 on:** October 17, 2009, 10:01:14 AM »

Quote from: Jimna on October 17, 2009, 03:24:57 AM

my only snag is the need to get up to change music

also, to take a piss and get another beer. If I could get a recliner toilet and a beer IV I'd be all set.

Todd R · « **Reply #25 on:** October 17, 2009, 10:42:41 AM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on October 16, 2009, 11:13:45 PM

I have more time to write now so here goes:

I have a pair of 500GB mirrored in the NAS. The NAS is used only to hold masters (master flacs, samplitude project files, etc). That one is getting full and I'm in the process of ripping all my old masters from DAT. So they go to the RAID when I get a pair of 1.5T drives.

The ubuntu box has a small boot drive and a 1TB drive for all of my playable media. To that I have ripped all my commercial CDs and DVD images so I can access then from the HTPC client. The music is organized by artist them album. I have all my authored live stuff and the stuff I download mixed in under the same structure so that when I go looking for an artist everything is under there.

I have the ubuntu box samba mounted on my laptop and I use foobar to playback music, VLC to play back the DVDs. I bought an Mvix Ultio for HTPC. I still haven't streamed with it but I think I'm going to buy a pair of ethernet-over-power bricks this weekend to get traffic to my room with the TV. I have used the ultio to listen to music on an external USB HD and feed analog to the system in there. It's good for that purpose. I would hook it to the big system but I have no monitor in there and I would really rather get an outboard DAC to feed 24-bit from the ultio, but I'm going to wait until CES to see what else comes out that will stream. The ultio is fine for the TV room and streaming DVDs.

The upnp clients I have tested on the laptop work well with both boxes but without proper metadata files or a media DB to drive the upnp interface, it's just file system browsing so I use the samba interface.

Damn, was that english?

I think when I've got some time, I can get myself set up with dual monitors with this post on one screen and an open wikipedia page on the other and I can try to decipher it. I have a feeling there is a lot of useful information in this post....

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #26 on:** October 17, 2009, 12:10:13 PM »

Sorry. I write like I talk at work. Its not that hard to set up.

Samba exposes a shared directory so you see it in your windows explorer. For a Home Theater PC client you can use a little media box like the ultio or a regular PC with linux or windows to access the shared drive. If you have a laptop and a networked server you already do this when you share directories.

For UPNP, it's almost automatic. Windows Media Player 11 supports upnp and when the network server announces itself on the LAN WMP11 will just tell you a new device has shown up. iirc Media Monkey and Winamp have client plugins. You can use a regular PC with twonkey vision as a upnp server. upnp is nice because it allows the server to send data like name, genre, etc and link to an album cover. If you have a playstation 3, their new firmware has updated the UPNP client and it's really nice.

Most of the software has gotten really friendly now so set up isn't hard.

Check out twonkymedia site. They have a media manager package that is really nice and it just drops in to whatever server you are using.

Jimna · « **Reply #27 on:** October 17, 2009, 12:51:34 PM »

Quote from: Tim on October 17, 2009, 10:01:14 AM

Quote from: Jimna on October 17, 2009, 03:24:57 AM
my only snag is the need to get up to change music

also, to take a piss and get another beer. If I could get a recliner toilet and a beer IV I'd be all set.

Todd R · « **Reply #28 on:** October 17, 2009, 09:00:55 PM »

Thanks Mike. I guess I'm pretty happy with the squeezebox for audio streaming. I haven't really followed at all HTPC or video streaming. I'll have to get caught up on that some day. For now I can stream netflix from my bluray player, so that seems enough.

I had no idea until your post, but it looks like there is a lot of cool stuff for digital media these days.