Topic: How To Pick a DAC?

[jmz93]

Hi folks. I hope you can help me with this.  I'm upgrading my playback gear connected to the computer. 

I master recordings as a job, so I need the most transparent, revealing, uncompromising sound I can get.  I realize this isn't always the same thing as "the most pleasing" or "warm" sound. 

I'm getting rid of my Motu 828MK3 interface - it has far more routing, dsp, etc. than I'll ever need.

Instead, I'm going to invest in a decent DAC, in the $1K price range. 

but how does one go about evaluating DAC's?  The specs look great on both the Mytek and Benchmark offerings, for example.  I realize it isn't scientifically rigorous at all, but has anybody ever captured the analog output from various DAC's and posted the recordings online in lossless form? 
I doubt I can find somewhere locally to sit down and a-b-c various DAC's.

The Benchmark offers jitter-free playback. Apparently, the bits going in look identical to the bits coming out.  Is that the parameter I should pay the most attention to, or are their other factors? Do the specs even matter these days?

Whatever I get, I will be sending data to it from a PCI card in the computer.  I was going to go with the inexpensive M-audio Audiophile 192, but the Benchmark folks tell me it does something to the data stream. i.e. it isn't bit-transparent. 

They recommend a card by Lynx Studio ... have any of you tried their products? 

Thanks for any replies.

[Jimna]

IME the mytek was wonderful but colored, which might not be the best for you.  for sheer transparent with rediculous resolution the grace m902 is perfect(and it has a remote!).  some have called it cold, but no one denies its detail.   those are the 2 best ive actually heard.   also keep in mind that the rest of your system will have a big factor if you like any give DAC...

there is a great review in the december Tone Audio issue on the new benchmark DAC.  those guys only like expensive shit and they gave it rave remarks.  its a full DAC & preamp.

[jmz93]

Crap... sorry guys! I ask about audio samples and then go to the Mytek site, only to find ... lots of samples including some comparing the Benchmark and Mytek. Grr. Oops.

I'm almost set on the Mytek, especially with the recently-announced Stereo 192 DAC. Does anybody here have the 96 and how well does it perform as an audio device under Windows?

The Motu I'm getting rid of has horribly unstable drivers on the Windows side, so I'm paying a lot closer attention to that part of things this time.

[MattD]

The Mytek isn't a soundcard. You'll need a card with a digital out to use it.

[audBall]

What MattD said.  The Stereo96 is a fantastic unit with a great headphone amp.  A little searching on here will find plenty of good things about it.  I find it to be extremely revealing, full of depth and a downright pleasure to listen to. 

There is a new DAC coming out by Mytek (with DSD support) that also adds USB and firewire. 

Here's some talk about it:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128018.0

[OFOTD]

IME the mytek was wonderful but colored, which might not be the best for you.  for sheer transparent with rediculous resolution the grace m902 is perfect(and it has a remote!).  some have called it cold, but no one denies its detail.

Sorry to jump in late but I vehemently disagree with the above comment about the Mytek sound vs. the Grace.   I would use the word accurate instead of colored.     There are four DAC's that seem to get some deserved attention around here.  The Mytek Stereo96, Grace m902, Benchmark DAC1 and the BelCanto DAC-1.  So what really is the difference?

First and foremost the Mytek and Benchmark are designed with the studio in mind.  Their primary function is the actual Digital to Analog conversion.   The Grace m902 and BelCanto's primary functions are that of a headphone amplifier.    While the Mytek has a really nice headphone amp and the Benchmark has a good output their bread and butter is the DAC portion of the product.   

to preface: I currently own a Mytek Stereo96

When I was in the market for a DAC I searched the internet for vendors, combed the message boards of many different sites and read more sterophile type articles that my head hurt.   What I ended up doing was going around and listening to a few different DAC's. My reference CD's were Steely Dan's Aja (shocker I know), NWA's Straight Outta Compton and a live Panic show I taped.  I was already familiar with the m901 as well as the Grace Design take on sound reproduction.   So I called up a few stores as well as a couple of boutique hi-fi, home theater, studio stores and did some comps.    In all cases I took my 7506's with me on a few of them I had used the same Dynaudio monitors in playback.   Please keep firmly in your mind during your search that one or two minutes is NOT enough time to properly evaluate.  For me the product differences were pretty obvious after a little bit of time listening.   By the time I got to Home At Last on the AJA album (about 25 minutes in) I felt I could really make notes of what I heard. 

The Grace has many advantages like a remote and the enclosure aesthetics for starters.  It powered headphones great.   Volume was smooth from quiet passages to louder concert sounds.  It is clinical though.

The Benchmark DAC1 was the most affordable and was really good sounding.   There was to my ears a high frequency emphasis that over time became a bit overpowering to my ears.  The bass tended to get lost for me.

The Bel Canto DAC-1 upsamples everything to 24/96.    Deal breaker there for me.   I'm paying for a DAC, not for a sample-rate converter.

The Mytek definitely has the most studio rackmount look to it.    The lower frequencies seem to be very tight and punchy not muddy or colored.   There was a big difference positive to the Mytek in the midrange detail versus the Grace.   In the $800 - $1400 range I think the Mytek is had to be sonically.   Everytime I use it I always think to myself what a damn good decision it was to buy the Mytek.   

I know it sounds like a cop out but get a couple of cd's that you KNOW how they sound, call a few dealers around your area and go listen. 


edit: grammer

[Jimna]

i was wondering when you would speak up! 

I know it sounds like a cop but out get a couple of cd's that you KNOW how they sound, call a few dealers around your area and go listen. 

good advice, apples for apples comparisons are the only way to go.

[Tim]

There's no headphone amp in the Bel Canto DAC1 or DAC2. I've owned both and currently use the DAC2. For the record the DAC2 upsamples to 24/192

The DAC3 (also 24/192 upsampling) can be used as a preamp but again, it's not setup for headphone use in any way much less as its "primary" function. 

The DAC3 is the only model currently in production.

[page]

I know it sounds like a cop but out get a couple of cd's that you KNOW how they sound, call a few dealers around your area and go listen.

agreed, and for this sort of cash, it's worth it.

I did the same thing at a headphone meet recently (took my cheap dac/amp which I know what it sounds sort of like) and went through recordings that I've had in heavy rotation and know what they sound like.

[ducati]

There's no headphone amp in the Bel Canto DAC1 or DAC2. I've owned both and currently use the DAC2. For the record the DAC2 upsamples to 24/192

The DAC3 (also 24/192 upsampling) can be used as a preamp but again, it's not setup for headphone use in any way much less as its "primary" function. 

The DAC3 is the only model currently in production.

Not true

Bel Canto just released the Dac1.5, 2.5, and 3.5.  All have headphone amps, 2.5 and 3.5 have analog ins, 3.5 has internal Virtual Battery technology.

In any case, I don't think you can go wrong with many of the current DACs.  They're all very good, and all are neutral enough, IMO, to do some mastering on.  The only caveat I'd say is buy the NEWEST DAC in your price range (unless you buy used); I think DAC technology has made great leaps in the last 2-3 years, and as we discussed in another thread, the current round of DACs sounds as good as very expensive stuff from 5-8 years ago.  Which DAC you prefer will likely be dictated by your downstream gear, as always.  Personally, I'm not a fan of the Benchmark DACs, I rather prefer the Cambridge DacMagic.  I like the Bel Canto stuff a lot (I have a DAC3), also, but they're more expensive.  I haven't heard the new Dac1.5 yet ($1400).

[Tim]

and there you have it! gracias
I take it these were announced at CES?

[jmz93]

Thanks for all the posts and advice guys!! Much appreciated. 

As for NWA's Straight Outta Compton as a test CD ... they'd shit if I took that to a local specialty audiophile shop. I almost want to now, just for the reaction.  

I hope AJA was the original MCA cd release, not the more recent one with exagerated/sharp highs... And, is it me, or does everything on the Steely Dan Citizen box set run a tiny bit too fast? (sharp in pitch) 

hmm NWA on my local shop's $50K system... *tempted*

Anyway, thanks ... it'll probably come down to the Benchmark or the new Mytek once it's out.

[MattD]

I'm a Mytek owner, but intrigued by the new Benchmark for a few reasons:
1. USB up to full resolution
2. Analog passthrough
3. Remote control

However, I preferred the Stereo96 to the DAC-1. I don't know if the sound has supposedly changed between versions of the DAC-1.

[Wiggler]

I'd also consider the Rick Cullen modified PS audio dac.
http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-plus.html?find_groupid=9539

Or the Wavelength Brick or proton dacs
http://www.usbdacs.com/

[ducati]

and there you have it! gracias
I take it these were announced at CES?

Yes, indeed.  I have been thinking about the new Dac 3.5 w/VBS1 (which would also "Virtual Battery" power my CD2), but I'm so happy right now with the Dac 3 I think I'll hold off until my dealer has one I can demo for awhile.  I don't want to move too far to the yin or yang, sonically, from where I'm at.  Sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone, ya know??

I would also like to hear the 1.5 in my 2nd system; considering it's also a preamp and headphone amp, it's not a whole lot more than a DacMagic for what you get...

[Tim]

wish they had picked different names

[Since85]

Has anyone checked out the PS Audio Perfectwave DAC? This thing is awesome! In a few weeks, the bridge will be available for it, and it will work like a very high end Squeezebox type device. I would love opinions on this unit.
 

[live2496]

Whatever I get, I will be sending data to it from a PCI card in the computer.  I was going to go with the inexpensive M-audio Audiophile 192, but the Benchmark folks tell me it does something to the data stream. i.e. it isn't bit-transparent. 

They recommend a card by Lynx Studio ... have any of you tried their products?

Not sure what the issue is with the Audiophile 192. (jitter?)

Here is a recent thread on Brad Blackwood's Mastering forum on soundcards used. RME and Lynx are both popular.
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/30742/12697/

Gordon

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

As for NWA's Straight Outta Compton as a test CD ... they'd shit if I took that to a local specialty audiophile shop. I almost want to now, just for the reaction.  

You might be surprised at the reception you get.  Most smaller shops are well aware of the better mixed releases and appreciate them regardless of genre.  I was shocked at the positive reception I got when I brought in some of my better panic recordings ;-)

[scervin]

I'd also consider the Rick Cullen modified PS audio dac.
http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-plus.html?find_groupid=9539

Or the Wavelength Brick or proton dacs
http://www.usbdacs.com/

Cullen is relasing a couple new DAC's under the Wyred4sound brand.  Both are based on the ESS Sabre chip and the DAC-2 will have volume control and HT bypass.  After waiting forever on a used Empirical Audio Overdrive or Berkeley Alpha, I'm going to pick this DAC-2 up for $1500.  Hoping it sounds as good as everyone expects.  Cullen will also be offering I2S upgrades to various transports as support.

[heath]

Mytek FTW.  I've got three 8X192ADDA's at the studio now, and wouldn't trade em for anything (except maybe a DAD or Prism).  With regard to cards, I've used both the Lynx cards and RME cards without fail for years.  Currently running RME AES32 cards in all my boxes, but would not hesitate to move back to Lynx if the price and application were right.

[spyder9]

I'm very happy with my Benchmark DAC1.  Have it paired with a HT Omega Claro audio card, which has digi-outs.  Cleanest, most accurate, sounding system I've ever owned.   

[spyder9]

I'd also consider the Rick Cullen modified PS audio dac.
http://www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-plus.html?find_groupid=9539

Or the Wavelength Brick or proton dacs
http://www.usbdacs.com/

Cullen is relasing a couple new DAC's under the Wyred4sound brand.  Both are based on the ESS Sabre chip and the DAC-2 will have volume control and HT bypass.  After waiting forever on a used Empirical Audio Overdrive or Berkeley Alpha, I'm going to pick this DAC-2 up for $1500.  Hoping it sounds as good as everyone expects.  Cullen will also be offering I2S upgrades to various transports as support.

Cullen's son, Patrick, sells bigass custom power cables on Audiogon on the side.  Very impressed with the craftsmanship. 

[page]

I'm surprised we've gotten 15+ replies and not mentioned the Lavry DA10 or DA11.
I spaced on it for my first reply.

Btw, I've heard OFOTD's comment's echoed elsewhere.

[StuStu]

I'm also surprised that the Lucid DA 9624 hasn't been mentioned. I have both the Lucid and the Mytek Stereo 96. While I prefer the Mytek, the Lucid is an excellent DAC as well.

[jzahr]

The original poster should also consider Daniel Weiss products. Its DAC202 connects to the pc via firewire, but also supports input from s/pdif and toslink. Ther is also a studio oriented DAC2, without volume control.

http://www.weiss-highend.ch/dac202/index.html
http://www.weiss.ch/dac2/dac2.htm

Cheers