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Author Topic: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?  (Read 6088 times)

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Offline nullcorp

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Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« on: May 18, 2012, 05:48:06 PM »
I'm trying to find the right portable recorder. I have an M-Audio Microtrack II, which I want to replace for numerous reasons, primarily the battery problems and the fact that it uses a proprietary battery that I can't replace in the field. I'm traveling to Iceland later this year and will be gone for three weeks, collecting video and audio for a film project. I will need to capture ambient background noise out in the wilderness and on the ocean shore.

Amazon had good prices on the Tascam DR2D and DR07MKII. I got both of them to try out, thanks to Amazon's generous return policy.

The DR2D has arrived and it seems incredibly cheaply made. The scroll wheel does not seem like it will last, and the battery cover was loose right out of the box. The sound quality with the built-in mics is surprisingly good but I don't trust the build quality at all. I could do without the cheesy startup animations as well.

The DR07MKII looks better but I don't have it in hand yet. It's unclear whether the DR2D or DR07MKII is the higher end model. Amazon's list price for the DR2D is $450 and the DR07MKII was $280 but since the DR2D is newer, it's possible that the DR07MKII used to have a higher list price. Although the DR07MKII looks more sturdy I've read that it has more handling noise, which is problematic for my particular usage this fall.

I was going to try and stay below the $200 mark but the more I read about the M10, the more it seems like I should actually return both of the Tascam units and get the Sony. Thoughts? I can afford whatever, but I don't think I need more than the M10 seems to offer, and carrying around a bigger Marantz or other unit is not practical for this trip. Primary criteria are good mics that capture distant sounds, low handling noise, AA/AAA batteries, smallest possible enclosure.

Online aaronji

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2012, 04:54:54 PM »
I'm traveling to Iceland later this year and will be gone for three weeks, collecting video and audio for a film project. I will need to capture ambient background noise out in the wilderness and on the ocean shore.

Recorder question aside, wait til you see Iceland!  I just got back from a brief trip there (literally, like 5 hours ago), and it is one crazy amazing place.  Some landscapes unlike anything I have ever seen...

As for the recorder, the M10 may offer an advantage with quieter ambient stuff due to it's comparatively quiet pre-amps...

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2012, 09:37:03 PM »
I own a DR2D and a Sony M10. The DR2D is only used as a backup or a 4 track recorder for onstage and soundboard recordings.

The M10 gets used 2 times a week, recording 15 hours on 2AA batteries to one 16GB microSDHC card. The build quality is much better than the Tascam with more aluminum in the construction and a much more solid feel. The onboard omni mics are decent, even though they don't have the spread to give a decent stereo image. Where it shines is paired with a set of external mics and a battery box/preamp to power external mics. The preamps are quiet, which is important for ambient recording.

The preferred budget set of external mics on this board are Church Audio CA-14s paired with his battery box or preamp. Bit more than your stated budget, but will sound much better. If you watch the Yardsale section of this board, you will see his pricelist, and fairly often a used pair becomes available.
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Offline earmonger

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2012, 01:35:49 AM »
I love my CA-14 but they are made for concert recording and are deliberately low-sensitivity. They may not be ideal for recording quiet ambient sounds unless you run them through a preamp, which raises your budget more.

The question is, how much noise are you willing to accept in your finished recording? If you run CA-14 into Mic-in, and crank up the input volume, you should get a signal but you may have to amplify it in post-production, which will also amplify self-noise from mic and internal preamps. How bad is it? That's your call. It's low but it will probably be present.

 You can also just use the Sony internals, which, as I've posted before, got birds chirping when I recorded a conversation outdoors.

Super low noise mics get expensive. Church Audio's preamps are supposed to have low noise, especially the CA-Ugly. But it really is a question of tolerance. if you are recording ocean waves, that's white noise anyway and you are not going to particularly notice background noise. If you are recording distant birdcalls, that's another story.

Speaking of which, there is an email discussion for http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/

And if you do order from Church Audio, you'd better do it at least six weeks in advance. He's a one-man show building everything from scratch, and that takes time.
 

Offline nullcorp

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2012, 10:54:10 PM »
Recorder question aside, wait til you see Iceland!  I just got back from a brief trip there (literally, like 5 hours ago), and it is one crazy amazing place.  Some landscapes unlike anything I have ever seen...

As for the recorder, the M10 may offer an advantage with quieter ambient stuff due to it's comparatively quiet pre-amps...

Thanks Aaron, it will actually be my third trip, although the first where I'm going to work on a specific project. It's really another world.
 
Phrases like "quiet preamps" and "birds chirping" are exactly what I want to hear about the M10. As unimpressed as I am with the build quality of the DR2D I'm going to go ahead and send it back. I might give the DR07MKII a try but I don't mind spending a little more for the M10.

Still curious to know which of the two Tascam units would be considered more high-end (keeping in mind that they were released at different times).




Offline Teen Age Riot

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2012, 05:53:38 AM »
The DR2D has arrived and it seems incredibly cheaply made. The scroll wheel does not seem like it will last, and the battery cover was loose right out of the box. The sound quality with the built-in mics is surprisingly good but I don't trust the build quality at all. I could do without the cheesy startup animations as well.

I've had my DR-2d for more than a year now and it's been rock solid. I would agree that it isn't exactely build like a tank, but there are definitely decks that are way worse. 
That said, unless 4 tracks in a small format are required, I would get the Sony.

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 04:11:27 PM »
Thanks Aaron, it will actually be my third trip, although the first where I'm going to work on a specific project. It's really another world.
 
Phrases like "quiet preamps" and "birds chirping" are exactly what I want to hear about the M10. As unimpressed as I am with the build quality of the DR2D I'm going to go ahead and send it back. I might give the DR07MKII a try but I don't mind spending a little more for the M10.

Now I am jealous!  I would have loved to spend more time there, but it was for work, so not a lot of time for exploration.  My girlfriend and I have already discussed it, and we will take a vacation there once the little one is a bit older...

If you don't mind the extra cash, go for the M10...I don't think you'll regret it.

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 05:38:00 PM »
The DR2D has arrived and it seems incredibly cheaply made. The scroll wheel does not seem like it will last, and the battery cover was loose right out of the box. The sound quality with the built-in mics is surprisingly good but I don't trust the build quality at all. I could do without the cheesy startup animations as well.

I've had my DR-2d for more than a year now and it's been rock solid. I would agree that it isn't exactely build like a tank, but there are definitely decks that are way worse. 
That said, unless 4 tracks in a small format are required, I would get the Sony.

Riot is on it.

Everyone has their own priorities, but the difference in build-quality between these two recorders would not rank particularly high on my priority list in this case.  I have two DR2ds used regularly for the past couple years and they are both going strong (no problems with the scroll wheels, the battery compartment lids were always slightly loose, I secure them with a small square of gaff tape).  Yes the Sony is better built, but on my priority list, function is far more important. I require the four channel function so the choice was made for me.

If making the best quality recording is your most important priority, I'd say the primary question should be what mics you will be using.  High sensitivity external omnis will do the best job if you can mount them properly (Head mounted binaurally, otherwise baffled or with enough space between them) and needn’t be expensive if you don’t need to also record loud music with the same mics.  Low cost, high sensitivity omnis can work well for this, they typically fail when things like music get loud.

If you must rely on the internal microphones instead, then give a close listen to recordings made with each recorders internal microphones.  This is NOT how most people use these recorders here at TS, so don’t let our preferences for other aspects of these two machines overly influence your decision.  As far as I’m aware, the Sony uses internal omnis and the Tascam uses internal cardioids.  On such a small machines, that gives a substantial advantage to the Tascam based on mic setup alone.  Whether that translates to better recordings or not you’ll need to determine by listening to both. 

If you decide to use the internal omnis on the Sony, consider a way to integrate the recorder into some sort of baffle which separates the to micophones similar to the way a Jecklin Disk works.  Even a piece of folded cardboard can greatly improve and imaging of the close mounted omnis.  Below is a link to a thread I started years ago about doing that for the old Edirol R-09, who’s internal omnis were so horrible I never actually used the folding cardboard baffle which I kept in my bag for years just in case I needed to resort to the internals.  In comparison, the mics in the DR2d are much better and I’m sure the omnis in the M10 are as well.

To sum up:
1) Use external mics if possible.  Choose the less expensive recorder if that allows you to use appropriate external mics within your budget.
2) If you must use internal mics, pick whichever recorder actually sounds better recording from its internal mics.
3) If that’s the Sony, consider ways to incorporate a collapsible baffle between its omni mics.


Thread featuring baffles for internal omnis- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=70134.0

« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 05:42:49 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 08:11:22 PM »
M10 hands down
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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 10:13:55 PM »
c'mon bean at least be helpful and not just a cheerleader.  Hands down?  For internal mic use? Why?  Have you even used the internals?

If nullcrop was asking for a two track recorder specifically for use with external mics I'd agree wholeheartedly.  For nature/ambient recordings using the internal mics I honestly don't know which is better. Do you really?
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Tascam DR2D vs DR07MKII - or just get an M10?
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 10:38:39 PM »
c'mon bean at least be helpful and not just a cheerleader.  Hands down?  For internal mic use? Why?  Have you even used the internals?

If nullcrop was asking for a two track recorder specifically for use with external mics I'd agree wholeheartedly.  For nature/ambient recordings using the internal mics I honestly don't know which is better. Do you really?

No, youre correct. I have never used its internals, and was basically saying that for JUST a recorder going MIC/LINE-IN :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

 

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