Topic: Sony PCM-D100

[yates7592]

[Thanks for the info regarding the fit of the Sony XLR-1 adapter to the D100. It makes me all the more glad that I had the good sense to acquire one, from a Japanese reseller over the past summer, for use with my D50. Now I can expect to see no problems with regards to its fit and functionality with respect to its use with a D100. 

[mitchellm]

First run with my D100 under my belt this weekend. Stealth op, front stage, dead centre, in small 300 capacity club (DPA4061 > BB > D100, record level 5, line-in, DSD format). Short 2 mins sound sample attached. Very pleased with the results, my best pull to date I would say. Don't know if this is down to the D100, or DSD, or a bit of both, or something else? BTW - the D100 is noticeably quieter than the M10, my tests at home comparing the 2 decks make this very obvious even to my cloth ears. Not that I'll be getting rid of the M10, far from it, the M10 is quite a bit smaller than the D100, and invaluable in those ultra  situations.

http://we.tl/TEMbXrDjEw

Would it be possible for you to share this file in WAV or some additional format? I realize your impression is that the DSD format is clearly superior, but I won't/can't use DSD right away. However I would love to get a sense of how the D100 is recording.

[Egor]

Good day! Could you, please, upload a sample of d100's internal mics and your voice or voice + guitar, may be? Your recordings will be the first d100's voice recordings in the web.  It is very important. Please, pleeeeease...) I want to hear it so much! You can even record one word in d100. Using internal mics, because what about external mics, you can plug tube mic to the 10 000$ preamp - then to the line in of the zoom h4n and quality will be superb, so this is not a test. The main thing is internal mics!

[kingtut38]

thanks for the info and the pics.  I'm guessing you're correct about the D100 having a better EIN than the D50.  I'm sure one of the guys over at avisoft will test it.  This thing will be a huge hit with the nature crowd if it can accomplish FR2le or SD702 noise levels.

XLR is still a problem considering Sony discounted it's adapter.  Even if it was still available the adapter plus the D100 would be pushing up into used SD702 territory.

Looks like a great piece though.

[yates7592]

Good day! Could you, please, upload a sample of d100's internal mics and your voice or voice + guitar, may be? Your recordings will be the first d100's voice recordings in the web.  It is very important. Please, pleeeeease...) I want to hear it so much! You can even record one word in d100. Using internal mics, because what about external mics, you can plug tube mic to the 10 000$ preamp - then to the line in of the zoom h4n and quality will be superb, so this is not a test. The main thing is internal mics!

If you scroll back earlier in this thread there is a link to a Japanese blog with several samples of the internal mics recording piano, street and nature I think.

[aaronji]

Would it be possible for you to share this file in WAV or some additional format? I realize your impression is that the DSD format is clearly superior, but I won't/can't use DSD right away. However I would love to get a sense of how the D100 is recording.

I really doubt that DSD produces "clearly superior" results compared to PCM.  Lots of debate on the subject, but, if you look at some of the ABX test results, they suggest that experienced listeners can't distinguish them (at best, maybe a few people can perceive a difference).  If there is an audible difference, it must be pretty small (especially when you consider the strictly controlled test environments)...

[dogmusic]

Good day! Could you, please, upload a sample of d100's internal mics and your voice or voice + guitar, may be? Your recordings will be the first d100's voice recordings in the web.  It is very important. Please, pleeeeease...) I want to hear it so much! You can even record one word in d100. Using internal mics, because what about external mics, you can plug tube mic to the 10 000$ preamp - then to the line in of the zoom h4n and quality will be superb, so this is not a test. The main thing is internal mics!

If you scroll back earlier in this thread there is a link to a Japanese blog with several samples of the internal mics recording piano, street and nature I think.

Here you go....

http://saburo-ubukata.com/stereo/D100/rd.html

[Egor]

Thank you, i listened to this samples, but there is no voice

[illconditioned]

I still would love to know the EIN of this recorder.  I do a little music but it's mostly spoken word or nature and I'd love a smaller setup that is very quiet.    If this thing is around -127dBu or so I would definitely pick it up. 

It's a shame it doesn't have XLR inputs.  Don't know if you can even buy sony's overpriced adapter anymore.

Cant help with the EIN but i think it will be around the figure you quoted. Regarding the Sony xlr adaptor its discontinued but fits the d100 like a glove.

kingtut38,

Check out this link to the "Theatre of Noise" website that features an article titled "Summary of Portable Digital Audio Recorders", and scroll down to where the EIN's of various portable digital recorders are listed. Since the EIN for the D50 is given as -126dBu, and since the D100 is advertised (or at least touted by some) as being a good deal quieter* than even the D50, I would expect that the D100 would more than satisfy your -127dBu criteria.

*I should be a little careful when I say this, as the difference between -126dBu, -127dBu, or -128dBu is sufficiently small enough that many other factors will come into play before this one or two dBu difference will begin to matter.

yates7592,

Thanks for the info regarding the fit of the Sony XLR-1 adapter to the D100. It makes me all the more glad that I had the good sense to acquire one, from a Japanese reseller over the past summer, for use with my D50. Now I can expect to see no problems with regards to its fit and functionality with respect to its use with a D100. 

I think all the Sony rigs have great preamps.  Lots of detail and very low noise.

What the D100 does is increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the ADC.  It goes from about 70dB in M10 to 80dB in D50, to 90-100dB in the D100.  Basically the D100 is one of the first "prosumer" recorders to get a full 16bits (and a bit more) on the ADC.  Not quite as good as the Sound Devices, but certainly a big improvement in quality.

[hi and lo]

B&H just updated their expected availability to February 28th. Was really hoping it'd be available in January.

[Nickelodeon]

I still would love to know the EIN of this recorder.  I do a little music but it's mostly spoken word or nature and I'd love a smaller setup that is very quiet.    If this thing is around -127dBu or so I would definitely pick it up. 

It's a shame it doesn't have XLR inputs.  Don't know if you can even buy sony's overpriced adapter anymore.

Cant help with the EIN but i think it will be around the figure you quoted. Regarding the Sony xlr adaptor its discontinued but fits the d100 like a glove.

kingtut38,

Check out this link to the "Theatre of Noise" website that features an article titled "Summary of Portable Digital Audio Recorders", and scroll down to where the EIN's of various portable digital recorders are listed. Since the EIN for the D50 is given as -126dBu, and since the D100 is advertised (or at least touted by some) as being a good deal quieter* than even the D50, I would expect that the D100 would more than satisfy your -127dBu criteria.

*I should be a little careful when I say this, as the difference between -126dBu, -127dBu, or -128dBu is sufficiently small enough that many other factors will come into play before this one or two dBu difference will begin to matter.

yates7592,

Thanks for the info regarding the fit of the Sony XLR-1 adapter to the D100. It makes me all the more glad that I had the good sense to acquire one, from a Japanese reseller over the past summer, for use with my D50. Now I can expect to see no problems with regards to its fit and functionality with respect to its use with a D100. 

I think all the Sony rigs have great preamps.  Lots of detail and very low noise.

What the D100 does is increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the ADC.  It goes from about 70dB in M10 to 80dB in D50, to 90-100dB in the D100.  Basically the D100 is one of the first "prosumer" recorders to get a full 16bits (and a bit more) on the ADC.  Not quite as good as the Sound Devices, but certainly a big improvement in quality.

illconditioned,

You're absolutely correct in pointing this out. The main improvement of the D100 over its predecessors (the D50 or even the D1) is in the sophistication of its ADC's. About three years ago (March 14, 2011), Rene Coronado did a quick comparison between a Sony D50 and a Sound Devices 744t, with both recorders being sent a live audio feed from an Audio Technica AT4050. The main reason for the comparo was to test the sound quality of the Deneke PS-2 phantom power supply when feeding the D50, but it quickly became a comparison between the D50 and 744t as well. (See "quickie shootout -- 744t vs PCM D50 with phantom power" from Rene's blog site "The Sound My Head Makes".) Anyway, the provided sound samples show that the D50 comes surprisingly close to the 744t, with the 744t (to my ear) pulling ever so slightly ahead of the D50 in terms of overall richness of sound and depth of presentation.

A "full 16bits" indeed. What I find somewhat amusing in all this is that it is only in moving to ADC's with rather sophisticated converter designs (using DSD 2.8MHz or 24bit/192kHz, or better, sampling standards) that we finally begin to approach the sound quality of the CD's 16bit/44.1kHz "perfect sound forever" format!

[Amir]

B&H just updated their expected availability to February 28th. Was really hoping it'd be available in January.

This isn't in fact new -- please check page 11 of the thread.

[yates7592]

What the D100 does is increase the SNR (signal to noise ratio) of the ADC.  It goes from about 70dB in M10 to 80dB in D50, to 90-100dB in the D100.  Basically the D100 is one of the first "prosumer" recorders to get a full 16bits (and a bit more) on the ADC.  Not quite as good as the Sound Devices, but certainly a big improvement in quality.

Agreed. Actual (or rather Sony spec) SNR figures are:
M10 (87dB) < D50 (93dB) < D1 (96dB) < D100 (100dB)

[rstl99]

I like this thread, it makes me look forward to buying a D100 when they come out.  I am upgrading from a Zoom H4n, and it more or less came down between getting a Sony D100 or a used Sound Devices 744T.  I figure the D100 will be a more flexible portable recorder, even if I have to buy a small mixer for some uses (maybe a Sound Devices USBPre2 or MixPre-D to provide external XLR mic capability for the D100, and also to act as audio interface to my Macbook - the H4n does that now).

Too bad Sony didn't equip the D100 to also play role of USB audio interface (as the H4n does).  I suppose that means that if I want to record using D100 mics onto DAW software on the Mac, I'll need to do so via a USBPre2 (or keep using my H4n)?  The D100 will be more for field recording - what will be the best way to copy the recording files to the Macbook for editing etc.?  Mine is the recent MBP which did away with audio in port, so it has to go in via USB.  Alternatively, I suppose files can be copied by inserting the D100's SD card into the Macbook.

Anyway, I'm still sorting out how the D100 will fit in with the rest of my gear, as you can tell...

[dnsacks]

if the d100 is anything like the m10, it will have a usb port that, when connected to the macbook, will cause the d100's file structure (wav files) to appear as external drives in the macbook, allowing you to copy directly from the d1oo or edit the files on the d100