Topic: integrated amplifiers

[shane]

I'm looking into upgrading and simplifying my playback system.  This will be my main system, tv, dvd, music playback.  I want tp lose the 5.1 surround and all that and move to a simple two channel system.  My budget isn't huge ($700-$800).  Can anyone recommend an integrated amplifier that would be suitable for my needs?

Shane 

[sygdwm]

h/k 3480:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5807198383&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

used speakers for at or around $500 leaves lots of options. try auiodgon.com

[shane]

Speaking of speakers, would I be better off spending more money on the amp or the speakers? I have apair of Polk Audio RT35i's right now that I could use to start.

Shane

[Daryan]

SPEAKERS...did I say that loud enough for you

Seriously, I truly believe about 75 percent of your entire budget should be on the speakers!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

SPEAKERS...did I say that loud enough for you

Seriously, I truly believe about 75 percent of your entire budget should be on the speakers!

Seriously? 25% of budget to buy amps, preamp, transport, DAC, wires, phono stage, turntable?

You would match a $7500 pair of speakers with a $2500 rig?

[noahbickart]

I would certainly match $7500 speakers with a $2500 rig! For one reason, it seams to me that a system is best built around the transducer, blow the first wad on the speakers and upgrade as necessary later. Also- money isn't everything. There are some great products which don't cost a fortune.

-Noah

[shane]

Any opinions on Jolida products?  They have some nice looking units in my price range, both tube powered and hybrids.

Shane

[Thom Joad]

FYI, this is still for sale. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=46114.msg593726#msg593726

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I would certainly match $7500 speakers with a $2500 rig! For one reason, it seams to me that a system is best built around the transducer, blow the first wad on the speakers and upgrade as necessary later. Also- money isn't everything. There are some great products which don't cost a fortune.

-Noah

The problem is that you are going to get a super revealing speaker and a less than high end (dare I say, crappy in comparison) source.   Go buy a pair of Wilsons and drive them with a lesser source and you'll have a system that will not be satisfying because the Wilsons will faithfully give you every flaw in the upstream components.  My experience, limited as it may be, is that when you achieve balance throughout the system you will have much greater satisfaction.  I have yet to encounter any anecdotal report that a $2.5K front end is going to adequately drive a $7.5K transducer.  On the other hand, a 4-5K set of speakers and 5-6K in amps, pre, source and wires will be a much more balanced system.  Balance your investment throughout the chain and you'll get a much better result.

I used 10K as a round number, but if you look on audiogon and audio asylum at the various systems, regardless of the total system cost, you find a balance in the quality of the components selected.  I jumped on that 75% rule because I think it's poor advice to draw a line in the sand like that when it cannot be defended by even the most cursory review of the reported experiences within the community. 

Any opinions on Jolida products? They have some nice looking units in my price range, both tube powered and hybrids.

The Jolida units get good reviews.   I'm thinking I'll get a 1501RC for my office system - integrated for simplicity and the flexibility/fun of rolling tubes in the front end.  I've always used CJ gear at home, but I've heard the Jolida gear in a local shop and it sounded really good on the Spendors.  I've not read about any issues with relability.  If you are nervous about getting tubes or can't afford enough tube power to properly drive hungry speakers, a hybrid is a great starting point.

[Daryan]

I would certainly match $7500 speakers with a $2500 rig! For one reason, it seams to me that a system is best built around the transducer, blow the first wad on the speakers and upgrade as necessary later. Also- money isn't everything. There are some great products which don't cost a fortune.

-Noah

The problem is that you are going to get a super revealing speaker and a less than high end (dare I say, crappy in comparison) source.   Go buy a pair of Wilsons and drive them with a lesser source and you'll have a system that will not be satisfying because the Wilsons will faithfully give you every flaw in the upstream components.  My experience, limited as it may be, is that when you achieve balance throughout the system you will have much greater satisfaction.  I have yet to encounter any anecdotal report that a $2.5K front end is going to adequately drive a $7.5K transducer.  On the other hand, a 4-5K set of speakers and 5-6K in amps, pre, source and wires will be a much more balanced system.  Balance your investment throughout the chain and you'll get a much better result.

Any opinions on Jolida products? They have some nice looking units in my price range, both tube powered and hybrids.

I disagree, but of course, it's just my opinion.  I would rather, personally, have a super high end set of speakers and lower quality, and this is realitive with a budget of 2500 dollars IMHO, amplification and wires than the opposite.  I certainly would not spend more on my gear than speaks, which makes no sense to me at all.  The speakers are what determines the sound, the rest refines and brings out nuances that cheaper gear may not allow for whatever reason.  I am NOT a huge fan of 5000 amps, so you can get where I am coming from.  But then again, it's just my opinion and obviously, you are welcome to disagree!

D-----

[sygdwm]

that cause you have to save money on more neon lights.

[jpschust]

SPEAKERS...did I say that loud enough for you

Seriously, I truly believe about 75 percent of your entire budget should be on the speakers!

this is  a silly across the board rule.  it holds true in some cases, but i wouldn't think that extreme.  Personally i'd be a bit more like 60/40.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I disagree, but of course, it's just my opinion.  I would rather, personally, have a super high end set of speakers and lower quality, and this is realitive with a budget of 2500 dollars IMHO, amplification and wires than the opposite.  I certainly would not spend more on my gear than speaks, which makes no sense to me at all.  The speakers are what determines the sound, the rest refines and brings out nuances that cheaper gear may not allow for whatever reason.  I am NOT a huge fan of 5000 amps, so you can get where I am coming from.  But then again, it's just my opinion and obviously, you are welcome to disagree!

D-----

Maybe this is our fundamental difference.  I do not believe that the speakers should determine the sound of a system.  I believe that the speakers should be as transparent and faithful as possible.   The character of the upstream components should determine the sound and the further up stream the better.  As soon as one link in the chain adds some characteristic sound, you are stuck with it.  If the upstream components are compromised to allow a more expensive speaker, the overall system perfomance is going to be limited by the compromised components.

It's your money D.  I just think that you can't apply a statement that 75% for speakers will yeild the best sound and return on investment.  I not would want someone starting out to be disappointed should they apply that rule blindly and then have to spend more on the frontend to find satisfaction.

[BobW]

Depends on prices, etc.
I've seen discounting on gear of such magnitude that I couldn't put a number on it.
Take for instance the current JoLida 302B price range.  They're selling from a high of $1600 down to $575.
How do you put that in the equation ?
Do I calculate the $950 for the used Plinius or it's original price of $2500 ?

Used high-end gear can often discount by 50%, when a perfectly great piece of gear falls out of favor and the reviewer's sights.

Well, you get my point.

One thing that wasn't touched was the damping factor/ speaker relationship.
Be sure to test speakers with an amp very much like your own and vice versa.
There's more that effects sound than having enough power.

[Ray76]

that cause you have to save money on more neon lights.

[Nick's Picks]

More nice stuff on agon:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1131739201  nice price here
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1131728519  real nice price
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?intatube&1131681746  no pic, but this is a huge amp

[coop]

there was a plinius 8150 in the yard sale for $950.

Fantastic piece of gear!!
150w class a/b solid state, and absolutely oozes musicality!!
I run the 8150 hotrodded to the 8200 specs, and absolutely love it!

it is still available and is now $850.  I would be willing to cover shipping east of the mississippi,  split ship to west coast.
        Coop

[Nick's Picks]

ugh...what a deal!
wish I had a spare $850 and another set of speakers.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

wish I had a spare $850 and another set of speakers.

i hear ya nick - i want this real bad but am on the fence on whether to update my amp or speakers first b/c i cant do both right now

here is what i'm currently running......... 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=33021.0;all

Depending on how big a step up you are taking with your new amp and speakers, I'd say it may not matter which you get first.  You are going to have no better sound than the least of the two components.  So if you are committed to buying both, I'd recommend your first buy be the first one you can get at a bargain.  If you find a good price on a great amp, get it and when you upgrade speakers all that ampy goodness will come flowing through.

Edit:  I meant to add that I don't know enought about your current gear or what level you are trying to achieve, but I tend to buy in order that the bargains appear.

[pfife]

wish I had a spare $850 and another set of speakers.

i hear ya nick - i want this real bad but am on the fence on whether to update my amp or speakers first b/c i cant do both right now

here is what i'm currently running......... 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=33021.0;all

Depending on how big a step up you are taking with your new amp and speakers, I'd say it may not matter whch you get first.  You are going to have no better sound than the least of the two components.  So if you are committed to buying both, I'd recommend your forst buy be the first one you can get at a bargain.  If you find a good price on a great amp, get it and when you upgrade speakers all that ampy goodness will come flowing through.

ding ding.  This is the correct answer.   Get whichever is an good deal!

[shane]

Hey raoulduke.  Do you know of any locations in CNY to pick up any higher end audio equipment?  I'd really like to test drive anything that i might purchase, but to nthe best of my knowledge the only place I know of is Best Buy and Circuit City.

Shane

[Thom Joad]

Off the top of my head:

www.audioclassics.com   (tons and tons of stuff, located down the road from the McIntosh factory and it shows by their inventory)

http://www.analogshop.com/  (where "Coop" bought his Plinius, "analog Bob" is a great guy from what I hear)

www.stellarstereo.com  (local place that deals in NAD, Mission, also has used stuff)

and there's a guy in Liverpool, NY that runs a business out of his home, I'l try and search for it...

[jpschust]

all these dealers remind me that i dont use my vpi scout nearly enough.

[pfife]

all these dealers remind me that i dont use my vpi scout nearly enough.

'scuse my ignorance, but what is a vpi scout?

[pfife]

No wonder you don't use it enough Jonny - it looks like a total P.O.S.!

 

That things pretty awesome!

[jpschust]

the sound from that table is just so sick.

you can't even get close to the sound of it without dumping another 7 or 8 grand into a table.

for what its worth im running it with a summiko blackbird cartridge, the jw-9 arm that comes with the scout, and a musical fidelity pre.

ill tell you my main beef with it- getting it set up took me literally 2 hours to get the tone arm, needle, and motor set up absolutely correctly.

the instructions arent worth a damn, they might as well be written in korean.  i had to have my dealer walk me through setting it up.

[coop]

i used to have both an HW-19 JR/audioquest PT-6/Benz micro Silver and a HW-19 MKIV/jmw9/benz silver  I'll be dammed if the JR didn't sound a little better!  The adjustable VTA on the jmw is a nice feature though.
   Coop
PS: Anyone interested in the Plinius PM me please.
     BTW: the guy in liverpool is Bob Swimm/Audio Excellence.   Non-stop talker, chain smoking wife, my clothes stunk for days and i was there for only 45 min.

[BobW]

Jumping back to Integrateds.....
anyone care to comment on Portal ?