Author Topic: Preamp Nervana (Read 6086 times)

Nick's Picks · « **on:** March 08, 2006, 01:24:07 PM »

at my house today.
Carl is on his way over so we can play around and listen to some stuff, and we'll report back on that end of things.
Otherwise, we have here before us my Audio Experience Symphonies +, with rolled tubes consisiting of a Philps JAN 6x4 and 3 Sovtek 12ax7's.
I have a pair of NOS JAN 5751s to roll into that for the outputs tubes, plus i'll try Carls as well.

Carl has his beta MODwright 9.0 line stage preamp, complete with bomber ass outboard power supply. Comes w/a pair of Tungsol 12ax7's, and we can swap out everything between what we have for tubes on hand.
I've got a pair of GT 12ax7 Mullard re-issues coming...whish they were here now.

Pics attached.

Question for you techies.
I want to upgrade my parts on the Symph board. everything is very spaced out and easily accessable. Looks like an easy MOD job waiting to happen. My question is, seeing how I dont know what i'm looking at really, what shoudl "come out" and what should replace those parts?
please, lmk.

We'll report back on our listening results later.
fwiw...Carls preamp retails for $2k, picked up used for a cool G or there abouts I believe. Mine retails for $690. Picked up used for $375.
I expect the MODwright to smoke my Symphonies. we'll see!

We'll be running into my custom ICEpower 250wpc amp and the trusty VonSchweikert VR4 GEN1's. All ICs are Gregg Stralley "red licorace" models except the DVD-A > preamp pair which are cryo'd Boulder M-80s.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #1 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:25:22 PM »

more pics of the Symphonies insides.
this is the shot where i'm looking for recomendations for things to pull out and replace with higher quality stuff.

scb · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:35:21 PM »

doesn't anyone work anymore?

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:38:44 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 08, 2006, 01:24:07 PM

Question for you techies.
I want to upgrade my parts on the Symph board. everything is very spaced out and easily accessable. Looks like an easy MOD job waiting to happen. My question is, seeing how I dont know what i'm looking at really, what shoudl "come out" and what should replace those parts?
please, lmk.

I'm not a techie, so I can't help with specifics. But I think it makes sense to treat upgrading or modding playback gear the same as upgrading or modding recording gear. Decide what sonic characteristics you do or do not like, then mod / upgrade accordingly. So maybe listen to the darn thing for a little while first?

krebsy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:45:51 PM »

Nick, plunk some of those tung-sol's in the Symph+. mmmmmm

Krispy D · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2006, 01:47:02 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on March 08, 2006, 01:38:44 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 08, 2006, 01:24:07 PM
Question for you techies.
I want to upgrade my parts on the Symph board. everything is very spaced out and easily accessable. Looks like an easy MOD job waiting to happen. My question is, seeing how I dont know what i'm looking at really, what shoudl "come out" and what should replace those parts?
please, lmk.

I'm not a techie, so I can't help with specifics. But I think it makes sense to treat upgrading or modding playback gear the same as upgrading or modding recording gear. Decide what sonic characteristics you do or do not like, then mod / upgrade accordingly. So maybe listen to the darn thing for a little while first?

UGH, not the voice of reason! by all means nick, drop some money in that thing. who wants un modded gear anyway!

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2006, 02:08:59 PM »

damn straight!

carlbeck · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2006, 04:09:31 PM »

I was working today, sort of

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:34:20 PM »

So we listened for about an 1.5 hours today, going back and forth between the two preamps and various discs where we would listen to the same track on each unit..etc.

the ModWright is fucking awesome. It made the Symp+ sound muddy and anemic in comparrison. Way laid back comparred to the "in your face" sound of the ModWright. Bass was HUGE w/the MW, weak w/the Symph. Which is surprising, as that is what improved the most in my system when I introduced it innitialy.
I felt the Symph had a deeper soundstage, more spatial info.....depth. But its lack of overall resolution and general omission of bass responce still reduced it to an "eh" sounding preamp.

then, we put my GE 5751s in the output stage of the Symph, and it was a totaly different animal. The MW still sounded better, but not nearly by the giant margin as it did w/the stock Sovtek tubes. After that roll, it was much more on the same playing field where as prior, it was more like selling hot dogs in the parking lot.

I'm horny now for some GT 12ax7's.

and...to MOD the shit out of it.

Carl, you scorred hard w/that MW pre. fucking sweet piece.

JasonR · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2006, 10:40:06 PM »

Hopefully you're comparing with warmed up tubes. My tube amps sound like completely different animals after about an hour of warm-up time. I guess a 12ax7 preamp wouldn't take quite as long to warm up to ear pleasing sound as an EL34 amp though.

- Jason

carlbeck · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:02:11 PM »

I think for the money the Symph is awesome with some good tubes in there but if money is no object then you need to hear a Modwright. It is scary good, IMO.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2006, 11:04:15 PM »

Quote from: Jason Reiser on March 08, 2006, 10:40:06 PM

Hopefully you're comparing with warmed up tubes. My tube amps sound like completely different animals after about an hour of warm-up time.

Same here. And as you experienced, Nick, swapping out tubes makes a huge difference. My Symphonies (no +) sounded anemic and terrible when I first fired it up - scared the shit outta me. It took a while to break in and to find tubes I liked. Happy listening!

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #12 on:** March 09, 2006, 07:29:51 AM »

isn't your Symph my old one?

Mic D · « **Reply #13 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:42:33 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 08, 2006, 01:24:07 PM

Question for you techies.
I want to upgrade my parts on the Symph board. everything is very spaced out and easily accessable. Looks like an easy MOD job waiting to happen. My question is, seeing how I dont know what i'm looking at really, what shoudl "come out" and what should replace those parts?
please, lmk.

PM sent.

Daryan · « **Reply #14 on:** March 09, 2006, 09:51:11 AM »

In looking at the first picture, I see two auricap capcitors of some value, as well as 4 resistors, the green things, and wima capacitors, the red ones, which apear to be film capacitors of the pulse variety according to their website. Replacing the auricaps may or may not be necessary. Assuming they are matched, which I would hope they are, they should be fine. Auricaps are known for a fairly robust sound though probably on the warmer side of the spectrum. Sonicaps are certainly one alternative, and provide a more netral true to the source sound. The wima caps should definately be replaced with silver micas. The green resistors I am not all that farmiliar with as I do not recognize the color. Probably some type of oem resistors if I were guessing. I used mills resistors when I modded my speaker's crossovers and they sound great. Probably an alternative worth looking into.

The second picture shows tons of capcitors which could be changed. The blue ones look like nichicon caps, which are fairl decent. The black ones apear to be the cheap version of panasonic caps. I would keep the same voltages, increase the capacitance, and use black gates or all nichicon caps if it were me. I think these changes should go a long way to improving the sound of the unit. There is quite a bit more you could do, but we aren't talking easy in all likelyhood.

Hope this helps.

carlbeck · « **Reply #15 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:37:39 PM »

The first two pictures with the auricaps is from my Modwright, Nick has the Symphanie Plus he would like to mod. I have no idea what is what so I have no plans of modding anything

Daryan · « **Reply #16 on:** March 10, 2006, 09:26:34 AM »

The big yellow things are auricaps. The only reason to change would be because you want a different sonic signature. I use auricaps in the bass region of my speaker crossovers...bigg ass 51uf caps too. I kind of feel like an idiot

Nick Culbreth · « **Reply #17 on:** March 10, 2006, 07:58:40 PM »

Try an Amperex Orange Globe 12AX7s for the input and a pair of Sylvania Gold Brand 5751s as the output.

If you're considering upgrading the Symphonies you might want to contact Alex Peychev at APL Hifi, I know he's modded a couple Symphonies and supposedly the results were outstanding. He might not be willing to do the mods now since he's pretty backlogged on his modded Denon 3190s and his new uber player but it might be worth a shot.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #18 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:22:06 AM »

thanks Nick. I'll check him out.

Daryan · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:07:11 AM »

I think I may have found something of interest to you or at least slightly relevant nick.

http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/audio_experience_e.html

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:32:16 AM »

not a great review.
ah well. to each their own. I think the symph and sympn + rock. i'm sure that its not up to its potential design though, and that there are many stock parts that can be replaced. I intend to look into this some more.

Daryan · « **Reply #21 on:** March 16, 2006, 09:25:06 PM »

It wasn't the review I was posting but rather the mod comments at the bottom of the review. Review's don't mean shit. I use them as a guide more or less.

Honestly, I would contact Wayne @ Bolder and send it to him. He will give you an estimate before doing anything, takes one off projects, and is killer to work with as well.

Again, hope this helps.

carlbeck · « **Reply #22 on:** March 16, 2006, 10:01:53 PM »

While it may not be a good review it is EXACTLY what you were looking for. I say you give it a shot.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2006, 07:18:26 AM »

i know...
and the parts in question are very 'spaceious" in there, so easyy to snip out and replace from the looks of things.

Daryan · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2006, 08:18:34 PM »

Quote from: carlbeck on March 16, 2006, 10:01:53 PM

While it may not be a good review it is EXACTLY what you were looking for. I say you give it a shot.

Funny thing is I found it while searching for "auricaps."