Author Topic: Drop Outs in Right Channel...722 issue? (Read 7926 times)

terrapinj · « **on:** July 28, 2006, 02:23:23 PM »

had some dropouts in my right channel last night during the 2nd set. this is now the 2nd time it has happened to me, the other being during STS9 at Wakarusa. essentially what happens is the channel will spike all the way up to 0db then drop down with no signal for a few seconds. sometimes it does it a couple times back to back, othertimes it happens once randomly. i noticed it happen at least 10 times within a 20 minute span or so in the middle of the set, i never once saw an issue during the 1st set or the 2nd half of the 2nd set. i was running pretty much completely different gear except for the 722 and my jw mod bodies. i was using different XLRS between the mics and the pre and using a different interconnect than I was using last time for the right channel between the pre and 722. this leads me to believe it is a problem with the 722 as I doubt I coincidentally used the same mic body in the right channel both times I happened to have any issues. i plan on contacting Sound Devices but wanted to see if anyone here had any similar issues or had any ideas what it could be. I won't have a chance to upload samples or post screen shots of the wave form until tomorrow. i have no clue how to test/reproduce the problem since i have used the 722 for at least 50 hours and only had this problem twice. i have also noticed some clicks/pops in other shows which I now suspect may be a result of the 722.

Gear -
last night - mod460/ck63 >Sonosax > 722
STS9 - mod460/ck61 > v2 > 722

nickgregory · « **Reply #1 on:** July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM »

sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

terrapinj · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2006, 03:29:56 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM

sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

i haven't had a chance to listen to last nights issues, but when I had the same issues with STS9 it would clip/pop then drop out and sometimes pop again when the channel came back. its the damn inconsistency that really has me thrown off

nickgregory · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2006, 03:43:35 PM »

Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:29:56 PM

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM
sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

i haven't had a chance to listen to last nights issues, but when I had the same issues with STS9 it would clip/pop then drop out and sometimes pop again when the channel came back. its the damn inconsistency that really has me thrown off

sounds like the A/D board...similar on mine...one show, it would go back and forth on that channel, then reset itself and act fine...definitely call SD

terrapinj · « **Reply #4 on:** July 28, 2006, 03:51:47 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:43:35 PM

Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:29:56 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM
sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

i haven't had a chance to listen to last nights issues, but when I had the same issues with STS9 it would clip/pop then drop out and sometimes pop again when the channel came back. its the damn inconsistency that really has me thrown off

sounds like the A/D board...similar on mine...one show, it would go back and forth on that channel, then reset itself and act fine...definitely call SD

Thanks Nick - I'm calling them on my lunch break. did you have to send your 722 in or did they send you the board and you made the swap yourself? if you mailed it in, do you remember the total turnaround time?

nickgregory · « **Reply #5 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:06:20 PM »

Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:51:47 PM

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:29:56 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM
sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

i haven't had a chance to listen to last nights issues, but when I had the same issues with STS9 it would clip/pop then drop out and sometimes pop again when the channel came back. its the damn inconsistency that really has me thrown off

sounds like the A/D board...similar on mine...one show, it would go back and forth on that channel, then reset itself and act fine...definitely call SD

Thanks Nick - I'm calling them on my lunch break. did you have to send your 722 in or did they send you the board and you made the swap yourself? if you mailed it in, do you remember the total turnaround time?

I did the swap myself...a pain in the ass to get the case lined up...it has to be lined up perfectly to get it back together. I did send mine to them for a LCD issue that I had (lose connection issue) and they turned that in no time..sent on Monday, had it in my hands on Friday

terrapinj · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:22:15 PM »

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 04:06:20 PM

Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:51:47 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 03:29:56 PM
Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM
sounds like some of the same symptoms I had when the A/D board in my unit was bad. Did it sound like pops on the recording?

I remember they mass replaced A/D boards last year...maybe you got some old stock...they could tell you for certain based on your serial number

i haven't had a chance to listen to last nights issues, but when I had the same issues with STS9 it would clip/pop then drop out and sometimes pop again when the channel came back. its the damn inconsistency that really has me thrown off

sounds like the A/D board...similar on mine...one show, it would go back and forth on that channel, then reset itself and act fine...definitely call SD

Thanks Nick - I'm calling them on my lunch break. did you have to send your 722 in or did they send you the board and you made the swap yourself? if you mailed it in, do you remember the total turnaround time?

I did the swap myself...a pain in the ass to get the case lined up...it has to be lined up perfectly to get it back together. I did send mine to them for a LCD issue that I had (lose connection issue) and they turned that in no time..sent on Monday, had it in my hands on Friday

what was the LCD issue? every once in a while when i power up or down I get some crazy pixilation going on, mainly when its powering up with the Sound Devices logo

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2006, 05:41:10 PM »

i noticed a few digi-like pops/clicks on my bisco tape from allgood, but it hapopened twice and was only at the beginning of the set and then gone and not on anything else that weekend

i did notice a small click on the rre tape actually, wonder whats up?

terrapinj · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2006, 06:52:49 PM »

spoke with Nicholas over at Sound Devices. He had not heard of any issues like mine before. I suggested that it could be the A/D board and he said while possible, it would be highly unlikely since they have replaced the boards long ago and haven't been having issues since. He also said that if it was an A/D issue that it wouldn't completely loose the audio signal but would likely add noise like pops/clicks. He wants me to send in the preamps I used as well. I can't send the Sax since its not mine, but I am hesitant to send my V2 as well as I am sure the problem is not the external pre since I had the issue with 2 different pres plus I would like to keep it around to use while the 722 is out of commission.

im gonna send in the 722 on Tuesday with samples and screen shots of the wave forms

nickgregory · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2006, 06:58:40 PM »

interesting...keep us posted on the issue.

As for the LCD issue, mine would go from normal brightness to very faint, to the point you couldnt see it, randomly. Sent it in 6 months ago, havent had a problem since

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:09:37 PM »

mikey, since you used diff pres and it was present in both, it has to be either

1. 722
2. mics(are your screws on the 460 bodies tight enough? i had weird problems with mine in 2000 and all i had to do was tighten the body screw a bit
3. cables?
4. battery cables?

terrapinj · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:22:18 PM »

Quote from: Bean on July 28, 2006, 08:09:37 PM

mikey, since you used diff pres and it was present in both, it has to be either

1. 722
2. mics(are your screws on the 460 bodies tight enough? i had weird problems with mine in 2000 and all i had to do was tighten the body screw a bit
3. cables?
4. battery cables?

1 - this is my primary suspect now
2- i will check the screws but i would think if that was the case the problem would occur more frequently or at least wouldn't all of a sudden stop. there is a possibility that it is one of the bodies, but it would be a coincidence that the same body was used for the right channel both times the issue occured. i wish i had a pre with meters on it so i could have seen if the signal was droppped before or after it reached the preamp
3 - i was using different cables from mic > pre and different interconnect for the right channel for pre > 722 so I have eliminated that possibility
4 - the only power cables involved were those powering the preamps - while possible, i eliminated that as well when I eliminated the chance it was a preamp

ianstone · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM »

$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

terrapinj · « **Reply #13 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:31:12 PM »

Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM

$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

i think i'll be fine tonight, plus I'd rather get more than the 20minutes of run time at 16/44.1 you have left on that HD

you should tape from VIP tonigh bro- the spot where Mike was setup didn't look too bad, although I don't know whatd you do without me to babysit your gear all night again

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:32:26 PM »

Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM

$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

i wanna give that sax a run, i know there has to be one near pittsburgh i can borrow

ianstone · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:36:36 PM »

Quote from: terrapinj on July 28, 2006, 08:31:12 PM

Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM
$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

i think i'll be fine tonight, plus I'd rather get more than the 20minutes of run time at 16/44.1 you have left on that HD

you should tape from VIP tonigh bro- the spot where Mike was setup didn't look too bad, although I don't know whatd you do without me to babysit your gear all night again

yeah i know, thats why i'm thinking i'm not going to tape

that waitress fucked me up when she brought me two drinks at the same time... and i kept having to get air during set 2. so fuckin hot in there.
do you wanna go in on the table with us, then you can go up there too and tape from up there? might be a nice change of vantage point.
let me know ASAP its only 25 bones, and you get to drink that at the bar

ianstone · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:37:08 PM »

Quote from: Bean on July 28, 2006, 08:32:26 PM

Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM
$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

i wanna give that sax a run, i know there has to be one near pittsburgh i can borrow

didn't you just buy a v2?!

SLUT!!!

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2006, 09:00:32 PM »

Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:37:08 PM

Quote from: Bean on July 28, 2006, 08:32:26 PM
Quote from: ianstone on July 28, 2006, 08:28:37 PM
$:-\$

you're welcome to use mine... although i gotta clear off the HD

hehehe

i wanna give that sax a run, i know there has to be one near pittsburgh i can borrow

didn't you just buy a v2?!

SLUT!!!

nope, kept my v3

terrapinj · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2006, 10:54:50 PM »

here are 3 screen shots of the spikes/dropouts

one overview of all the problems, a medium view, and a zoomed in view of the most heavily affected area

terrapinj · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2006, 10:57:03 PM »

here's a very low quality mp3 sample of two of the worst sections

ianstone · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:07:32 PM »

Quote from: terrapinj on July 29, 2006, 10:54:50 PM

here are 3 screen shots of the spikes/dropouts

one overview of all the problems, a medium view, and a zoomed in view of the most heavily affected area

shitty

did it happen again on friday?

terrapinj · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2006, 02:14:50 PM »

Quote from: ianstone on July 30, 2006, 02:07:32 PM

Quote from: terrapinj on July 29, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
here are 3 screen shots of the spikes/dropouts

one overview of all the problems, a medium view, and a zoomed in view of the most heavily affected area

shitty

did it happen again on friday?

i haven't done a full listen or looked at the waveform but i was watching my meters all night and never noticed. Thank God it didn't happen on Tues - any other night at least there were other tapers. I did get an instance or 2 of fucking cell phone intereference though on that Tues night stealth pull. oh well

ianstone · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2006, 05:24:49 PM »

Quote from: terrapinj on July 30, 2006, 02:14:50 PM

Quote from: ianstone on July 30, 2006, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: terrapinj on July 29, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
here are 3 screen shots of the spikes/dropouts

one overview of all the problems, a medium view, and a zoomed in view of the most heavily affected area

shitty

did it happen again on friday?

i haven't done a full listen or looked at the waveform but i was watching my meters all night and never noticed. Thank God it didn't happen on Tues - any other night at least there were other tapers. I did get an instance or 2 of fucking cell phone intereference though on that Tues night stealth pull. oh well

yah i saw that on etree. doh'.

oh well. hopefully your wed night version is good, i got my thurs/fri up now

terrapinj · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:52:04 AM »

here are some shots and a sample from the 1st time i had the problem. it was actually the left channel this time, as opposed to the right one i was having problems with most recently. there are a couple where teh channel doesn't actually drop out on the waveform but it sounds as if it pretty much does completely.

this was STS9 at Wakarusa mod460/ck61 > v2 > 722 using different cables

terrapinj · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2006, 01:54:04 AM »

heres a much cleaner sample of the right channel dropouts from moe. the other night

it-goes-to-eleven · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2006, 02:35:05 PM »

FWIW.. At 24/48 the 722 writes to the disc about once every 6 seconds. *IF* the disc activity was contributing to the noise on the recordings (via rf) you might expect to see it at that interval.

ianstone · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2006, 07:15:53 PM »

Quote from: Freelunch on July 31, 2006, 02:35:05 PM

FWIW.. At 24/48 the 722 writes to the disc about once every 6 seconds. *IF* the disc activity was contributing to the noise on the recordings (via rf) you might expect to see it at that interval.

if that were the case, would you notice the levels drop out on the level meter on the face of the 722? because we certainly saw it happen during moe.

also, if it were a case of the disc activity as you presume - would it have the same effect when writing to a CF card, or would that "backup" be essentially perfect while the one on the hard disk would be messed up? Just curious - mikey didnt' have a card in there but i'm curious about it. I've thought about purchasing a card just to run as a backup.

trajhip2000 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2006, 08:23:22 PM »

I doubt this is your problem, but I was having trouble with random spikes/pops on my 744T recordings a while back - turned out the FW card on my PC wasn't fully seated and I was getting the glitches when I transferred the files. So if you haven't checked that you might want to.

Steve

mhibbs · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:27:29 AM »

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM

what was the LCD issue? every once in a while when i power up or down I get some crazy pixilation going on, mainly when its powering up with the Sound Devices logo

I get trash on the startup screen sometimes too. Has always gone away though once powered up.

mitch

terrapinj · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2006, 12:09:28 PM »

Quote from: mhibbs on August 01, 2006, 12:27:29 AM

Quote from: nickgregory on July 28, 2006, 03:18:53 PM

what was the LCD issue? every once in a while when i power up or down I get some crazy pixilation going on, mainly when its powering up with the Sound Devices logo

I get trash on the startup screen sometimes too. Has always gone away though once powered up.

mitch

i spoke with SD about this as well. they said it just happens and theres really nothing that can be done about it

i pay 2400 for a device that can't even display a simple logo at boot-up...

the problem is not the FW transfer, but thanks for the feedback. this clearly happens while recording as both times it has occured i have watched the meters peak and then dropout, they now want me to run more tests before sending it in to them, i don't think the guy im dealing with has very much experience with this device, he kept telling me that he'd check with someone to see if they knew. when he sent me my email with shipping info he didn't even list the right recorder, 702

terrapinj · « **Reply #30 on:** August 01, 2006, 01:12:02 PM »

Quote from: Freelunch on August 01, 2006, 12:59:53 PM

Have you reproduced this problem with mics other than the mod460's?

nope - only had 2 instances of the problem - same bodies but different caps, i think when i get my other pair back from dana, im gonna drop these off with jim williams to see if he can check on them to see if he can find any issues. the fact that this is so random makes it near impossible to try to reproduce the problem.

ianstone · « **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2006, 02:56:38 PM »

you can do some tests with my schoeps if you want