Topic: VR1s for dirt cheap on agon

[cshepherd]

^^exactly^^

+T

[BobW]

VR-1s are easily worth at least $500 new.
They are no disappointment, but are overrated at the bottom end.
If placed correctly, they go to about 70Hz, making a sub necessary.

They are smooth as a baby's bottom and image very well.
They are shockingly small and the sound reminds me of Dynaco A25XLs, but tighter and more defined in the lowest registers.
If a Sub isn't in the budget, close wall placement will take the bottom down to the mid 40's, but placement is super critical!

Absolutely amazing speaks for the price and size.
I care that the cabinets are made in China politically, but sonically, there is small bearing.
The finish, weight, and construction is great.

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

[Daryan]

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

I couldn't disagree more.  Just about ANY audio component can be made to sound better.  There will always be tradeoff's on a price/profit ratio when the final design is distributed to the public with any mid-priced (realitive) gear. Capacitor upgrades, rectifiers, etc are not snake oil by any means. 

Why in the world would a person be a dolt for wanting to cut down on standing waves, impendence anomolies, and better low end performance?  That is precisely what adding dampening material or additional bracing would do for the sound unless the concepts are well implented by the manufacturer, which in most cases they are not. 

I'm not disagreeing perse, but I would be interested to hear how you formulated these opinions?

THX

[BobW]

For chris'sakes! Don't go modding them.
Engineers spend a long time designing things, testing things, and adjusting things.
Charlatans abound in audio with magic crystals and snake oil trying to make money.

Unless you have test equipment, ample knowledge, and lots of time to tweak them, they are almost assuredly better off left alone!
Whomever sound dampens the inside of these is a dolt.

I couldn't disagree more.  Just about ANY audio component can be made to sound better.  There will always be tradeoff's on a price/profit ratio when the final design is distributed to the public with any mid-priced (realitive) gear. Capacitor upgrades, rectifiers, etc are not snake oil by any means. 

Why in the world would a person be a dolt for wanting to cut down on standing waves, impendence anomolies, and better low end performance?  That is precisely what adding dampening material or additional bracing would do for the sound unless the concepts are well implented by the manufacturer, which in most cases they are not. 

I'm not disagreeing perse, but I would be interested to hear how you formulated these opinions?

THX

No sweat, Daryan!  I am very opinionated about playback, to be sure.
And I love a good debate, as long as it stays friendly.

Sound-proofing the innerwalls of a speaker cabinet changes the inner dimensions and volume, thereby undoing critical elements of it's design. As I said, it is possible to make valuable modifications, but...and this is a huge "but"... any design mods should be tested for results.
Before embarking on a mod, it is wise to do the math and science behind the design changes.

It is very easy to be fooled with something as variable and subjective as hearing.
I portend that atmospherics have a more dramatic effect on preceived sound than many upgrades costing over $1000.
That is, simply waiting until the relative humidity changes could affect sound many times more than upgrading a pair of interconnects.
...Just something to ponder

Playback is a personal pleasure arena. If ripping open expensive gear and "doing stuff" to it makes one happy,
then who am I to condemn it?
But when someone says, "I think that I can out-do VonSchwiekert's design by adding $0.75 worth of vinyl floor tile to his speakers, I have to seriously question the validity.
When that person tries to sell that mod to me, I feel obliged, by my experience and training, to tell my friends what I think.

It's just one man's opinion, take it or leave it, as you like.

[Daryan]

Cool and well said.  I disagree but can agree to disagree and that's what  makes this fun.  There are ways to add dampening material without decreasing internal cabinet volume.  Blackhole 5 is one of them for instance.  I do agree however, that these mods need to be done carefully.  I wouldn't have dreamed of modding my speakers without Danny Ritchie's expertise, time, and development of the mod.  What I tend to evaluate is when embarking on a mod is more the realitive quaility fo the parts used, and whether upgrading them would be worthwhile.  I tend to find that a cheap capacitor for instance, sounds cheap.  Same goes for regulators, inductors..etc.  Whe n a manufacturer is desiging a specific product at a specific pricepoint, the cost of the parts is obviously a consideration.  If I can upgrade said parts without too much additional outlay (this is realitive, I know), I do.  If the parts used are up to my standards then I leave them alone.  Just my opinion, but I should add I find modding these things more fun than anything else!

Take care

D~

[Nick's Picks]

case in point...
the VR1s rear port, if you can call it that.  Its not referred to as a port by the company, but as a "fooler hole" (i'm sure they have a better word than that one I just came up with), that makes the driver think the cabinet is larger than it is, thus making it behave differently.

so doing anything to the inside of those would be detrimental to what the designer had in mind.

[BobW]

case in point...
the VR1s rear port, if you can call it that.  Its not referred to as a port by the company, but as a "fooler hole" (i'm sure they have a better

I thought it was a finger-handle     

It is supposed to depressurize the last baffled zone, but does not act as port in any traditional sense.
This makes them easier to place, according to the literature.

I doubt that I'd personally run out to buy Blackhole 5, to add to an existing design, but would consider it for homebrewing...but you knew that already     

Agreed to disagree, and as I have stated, I am acknowledgedly opinionated on matters playback!

[Nick's Picks]

certainly.
the other day, i was cranking some tunes and a ficus plant 3' behind my VR1s (which are pulled out 5') was blowing around like a gusty summer day!  that sucker was pushing some air, no doubt.

[BobW]

certainly.
the other day, i was cranking some tunes and a ficus plant 3' behind my VR1s (which are pulled out 5') was blowing around like a gusty summer day!  that sucker was pushing some air, no doubt.

You play loud!
Maybe there is more port there than meets the eye...
did it every howl or whistle from that much airflow?
It's too late for me to crank Mr.Lesh to see if I can move some paper, but I'll try it early in the AM !   

[Nick's Picks]

no noise at all...just movement.
yea, I play loud...I suppose.  I've got a big room to fill, and its not quite so "effortless" w/ 50wpc and monitors as it used to be with 250wpc and VR4s.