Topic: How to use cardiod mics?

[carlito1980]

Hey everyone!

I have got a question about the position of cardiod mics.

Is it ok if the cards point exactly into the direction of the stage or do they have to point a little right/left exactly to the loud speakers? I will be about 15meters apart from the center of the stage.

thx! 

[pmonk66]

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/micsetup.html

[Brian]

another good resource is the "Microphone University" section of : http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

lots of great info on stereo techniques. 

[Brian Skalinder]

There is no "right" way;  the mics don't "have" to point anywhere.  It depends entirely on the environment in which you record and the sound you prefer.  Check out the sticky thread at the top of the forum with the Stereophonic Zoom link.

Lots of variables may impact the configuration you select, such as...

What kind of music?
How wide is the stage / are the PA stacks?
Do you anticipate a rowdy/chatty/loud crowd?
Does the venue sound great, good, poor?
Will you have a chance to walk around during an opener to find a good sounding spot?
Are you restricted to a specific location in the venue?

[pmonk66]

There is no "right" way;  the mics don't "have" to point anywhere.  It depends entirely on the environment in which you record and the sound you prefer.  Check out the sticky thread at the top of the forum with the Stereophonic Zoom link.

Lots of variables may impact the configuration you select, such as...

What kind of music?
How wide is the stage / are the PA stacks?
Do you anticipate a rowdy/chatty/loud crowd?
Does the venue sound great, good, poor?
Will you have a chance to walk around during an opener to find a good sounding spot?
Are you restricted to a specific location in the venue?

In other words, we have no idea 

The real answer to your question is what sounds best to your ears! After 100 or so recordings you probably still won't have an answer!

[DSatz]

carlito, "where the microphones are pointing" is crucial when you're using them as spot microphones--picking up a single instrument or voice at close range. But when you're using a pair of microphones as the main (or only) microphones for stereo recording, the area of overlap between their pickup patterns is what you have to aim, three-dimensionally, at the totality of direct sound sources in the situation.

That's much more complex, and "where the microphones are pointing" is certainly one of the variables that you have to adjust. But the microphones have to work together, not independently, to create a stereo image. As a result, they aren't individual "target-seeking" devices; they're more like parts of a larger array of antennas, where the point is to keep the entire array open to a certain range of pickup angles where you hope to find signs of life in the heavens.

Anyway, no microphone is so narrowly directional that it picks up sound only on its own axis. Please forgive the metaphor, but if a microphone really was a penis, even the narrowest shotgun microphone would still require a lot of cleaning up all around it after every use! Microphones are much more analogous to receptive sensory organs of some kind (not that a penis isn't one of those, too). A cardioid pattern is practically almost an omni except for behind it; anyway its directivity isn't nearly as strong as what most people seem to imagine. And now I think I will leave that metaphor behind, thank you very much.

Generally in stereophonic playback, we don't want any direct sound sources to come at the listener from the exact position of either the left or the right loudspeaker. That somehow destroys the effect. The effect works best if the stereo "sound stage" seems to extend all the way between the loudspeakers without ever being in either of them as such. And that means that all the direct sound sources have to reach both microphones at angles where they are still fairly sensitive, i.e. using either omnidirectional microphones which are sensitive in all directions to begin with (and not too far apart), or else directional microphones that are positioned and angled so that the whole set of direct sound sources falls within their common range of sensitivity.

Does that make some sense?

--best regards

[sygdwm]

analogous to a penis? you continue to amaze me with your wit/wisdom.

[DSatz]

Moke, I know the one you mean (the CUW-180), but its straight cylinder contains only the circuitry of the microphone. The capsules--the sensitive parts--are the two round things on either side of that. You have to grab them and twist to set the angle between them. And yes, they look like exactly what they look like.

It's a very disconcerting visual design, and to me, quite odd coming from a major Japanese manufacturer when you consider how careful an engineer always has to be in Japan about aiming microphones at people. For reasons of politeness, side-addressed microphones are almost always preferred in Japan for close speech or vocal pickup, to avoid the hostile overtones of jabbing something in someone's face.

I guess in this case the microphone would look as if it was pointing away from what it was recording, toward the engineer. So that might be OK culturally, even though it sure looks weird.

But I really don't want to get sidetracked on all this metaphor business. As Freud said, sometimes a microphone is just a microphone. Can we all smirk and move on, and help the original poster get the information he needs?

--best regards

[pmonk66]

Does that make some sense?

--best regards

In that case, I need bigger microphones 

[Brian Skalinder]

In that case, I need bigger microphones 

Not true.  The size of the microphone doesn't really matter, though some sizes/styles are easier to mount than others, for example on a stereo bar.

[HarpDoc]

See what you've started DSatz?

[pmonk66]

In that case, I need bigger microphones 

Not true.  The size of the microphone doesn't really matter,

Says your girlfriend 

but if a microphone really was a penis

[rastasean]

Its not about the size, its about the motion in the ocean.
or in this case FOB...?
what can we say