Topic: Need device with optial-in

[zeptrades76]

Hi all - new here.  I've got the whole front end up to a digi-mod UA5, but I need something that takes an optical in.  My JB3 crapped out years ago, so I'm looking to get something a bit more current.  Any suggestions?  Cheers!

[page]

Hi all - new here.  I've got the whole front end up to a digi-mod UA5, but I need something that takes an optical in.  My JB3 crapped out years ago, so I'm looking to get something a bit more current.  Any suggestions?  Cheers!

Sony PCM-D50.

Not quite the price range, but it is 24bit. Had you considered anything SPDIF for use with the UA-5 (like a microtracker 2, if you are *really* careful with it).

[SClassical]

Anyone here tried PDAudio? How much would the complete setup be (program, PDAudio, etc...)?

[jbell]

I would suggest a D50 also, but it will only record 16bit through the optical in, because the UA5 doen't send a current bit rate flag.  It will do 24bit will if you run analog.  The only other option for optical input would be an Iriver H120, which is only 16bits.  You could also grab another JB3 since their are some sitting in the YS for cheap if you have a small budget. 

[page]

I would suggest a D50 also, but it will only record 16bit through the optical in, because the UA5 doen't send a current bit rate flag.  It will do 24bit will if you run analog.  The only other option for optical input would be an Iriver H120, which is only 16bits.  You could also grab another JB3 since their are some sitting in the YS for cheap if you have a small budget.

Interesting, I knew the D50 (courtesy of the usbpre2 thread) didn't just read the incoming clock, but had to have it explicitly set, didn't know that the ua-5 didn't do that. If the D50 doesn't see the flag, does it just not lock on, or does it default to 16 bits? The UA-5 once digi-modded, will only put out 24 bits and the switch on the front is useless.

[jbell]

It defaults to 16 bits.  The V3 had the same issue, but Grace fixed it with an upgrade.  It seems like sound devices is currently fixing the problem with the USBpre2. 

I would suggest a D50 also, but it will only record 16bit through the optical in, because the UA5 doen't send a current bit rate flag.  It will do 24bit will if you run analog.  The only other option for optical input would be an Iriver H120, which is only 16bits.  You could also grab another JB3 since their are some sitting in the YS for cheap if you have a small budget.

Interesting, I knew the D50 (courtesy of the usbpre2 thread) didn't just read the incoming clock, but had to have it explicitly set, didn't know that the ua-5 didn't do that. If the D50 doesn't see the flag, does it just not lock on, or does it default to 16 bits? The UA-5 once digi-modded, will only put out 24 bits and the switch on the front is useless.

[sunjan]

The UA-5 once digi-modded, will only put out 24 bits and the switch on the front is useless.

Page, I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, the UA-5 FAQ says that the mod only reroutes the signal, it doesn't render the switch useless. If you have a unit that does, maybe it's due to a botched mod. Or do you have a source for your statement?

What I'd consider is getting an MTII for 24bit coax, and run an iriver in parallell at every gig. That way you have at least a 16bit backup if the MTII craps out.
Other recorders with coax worth considering are PMD-671, -661 (and 670, although 16bit only). Then again they might not fit your budget and are hardly stealthy.

[burris]

Don't buy an MT, you'll be sorry.

Pros interested in handhelds are reporters who record interviews and musicians recording their rehearsals.  Hence the built in mics and no digi-IO.  Pros who want portability and digi-IO are mostly ENG/Film/Video guys and they want a laptop.  Tapers are such a small market they don't really figure at all unless one of the engineers has a personal interest.  We're lucky any of the handhelds have digi-IO!

The MT definitely had tapers in mind (one of the designers is a FOAF) but that company is so fucked up they cannot produce any decent software (firmware for devices or drivers.)  The hardware isn't all that great either.  I've been burned 3 or 4 times with different M-Audio products so it is my mission in life to serve as a warning.

[page]

The UA-5 once digi-modded, will only put out 24 bits and the switch on the front is useless.

Page, I don't believe this is correct. IIRC, the UA-5 FAQ says that the mod only reroutes the signal, it doesn't render the switch useless. If you have a unit that does, maybe it's due to a botched mod. Or do you have a source for your statement?

someone else (here on TS) tested it a while ago and I tested it with mine when I had one. It seemed that the 16/24bit switch was a software trigger, not a hard element. The 16bit recordings that have been done in the mid-2000s with JB3s were all via truncation. I'd have to spend some time searching, maybe Skalinder would know, I think he posted a reply in the thread in question.

[Brian Skalinder]

Re the UA5 ADV switch and 16- or 24-bit output, not the thread I was looking for, but there's these two comments -- one from Edirol/Roland, one from fellow TSer:

Okay....I got the skinny from Roland USA support:

Question: Does the UA-5 output true 16bit (not truncated 24bit) when ADV is switched to OFF?  There is some disagreement on this and I wanted to clear it up.

Thanks,

ANDY
-----------------------------
Andy,

Sorry we didn't get back to you sooner, as we were researching the answer.  It turns out that the correct answer is truncated.  In standard mode, only the first 16 bits would be used, and in advanced mode, if your software were set to 16 bit, the same would apply.

I hope that this helps answer your request. If you need more assistance in this matter, please either re-submit your support request or contact our Product Support Department at the appropriate number:

Digital Recorders and Mixers: 323-890-3741
Guitar/Percussion Products: 323-890-3743
Pianos, Organs, Arrangers: 323-890-3744
Synths/Sound Modules/Groove Products: 323-890-3745
Product Support Main: 323-890-3740

Sincerely,
Roland Product Support


--------

Big suprise.  I couldn't tell and it is a issue that Roland Support had to research in order to find the answer.

Well, I just did a test and can confirm SmokinJoe's assertion that the digimod UA-5 outputs 24 bits with the ADV button on or off.  Makes no difference at least for the coaxial digital output.

Here's what I did:
Ran a stereo analog RCA output from an analog cassette deck (easier than setting up the mics) into the RCA inputs on the back of my Oade T+mod UA-5 (available in the YS, btw!).  Took the digital coaxial output into an MT set to record at 24 bits.  I did this first with the ADV setting on the UA-5 turned ON.  Then I turned everything off and turned the ADV switch to OFF.  Powered everything back up and recorded again (MT still in 24 bit mode, of course).  Transferred both recordings (about 50 secs for both) to the 'puter, opened each one in CEPro2.0, highlighted everything and ran Analyze/Statistics.  Both recordings came back with an Actual Bit Depth of 24.  Not a surprise for the "ADV on" recording, of course, but I was really expecting 16 bits for the other.  So . . .

The digimod UA-5, at least, neither dithers nor truncates after all.  Exactly the same as the Mic2496, as it turns out, and everyone has been relying on your 16-bit recorder to do the truncation all these years.  So, I guess this did prove something pretty significant after all.  I suspect the answer shaggy got (that the UA-5 truncates) would be true for an unmodded box running signal via USB to a computer, then?

[page]

Re the UA5 ADV switch and 16- or 24-bit output, not the thread I was looking for, but there's these two comments -- one from Edirol/Roland, one from fellow TSer:

Well, I just did a test and can confirm SmokinJoe's assertion that the digimod UA-5 outputs 24 bits with the ADV button on or off.  Makes no difference at least for the coaxial digital output.

Here's what I did:
Ran a stereo analog RCA output from an analog cassette deck (easier than setting up the mics) into the RCA inputs on the back of my Oade T+mod UA-5 (available in the YS, btw!).  Took the digital coaxial output into an MT set to record at 24 bits.  I did this first with the ADV setting on the UA-5 turned ON.  Then I turned everything off and turned the ADV switch to OFF.  Powered everything back up and recorded again (MT still in 24 bit mode, of course).  Transferred both recordings (about 50 secs for both) to the 'puter, opened each one in CEPro2.0, highlighted everything and ran Analyze/Statistics.  Both recordings came back with an Actual Bit Depth of 24.  Not a surprise for the "ADV on" recording, of course, but I was really expecting 16 bits for the other.  So . . .

The digimod UA-5, at least, neither dithers nor truncates after all.  Exactly the same as the Mic2496, as it turns out, and everyone has been relying on your 16-bit recorder to do the truncation all these years.  So, I guess this did prove something pretty significant after all.  I suspect the answer shaggy got (that the UA-5 truncates) would be true for an unmodded box running signal via USB to a computer, then?

That's the one I was thinking of. Thanks!

[sunjan]

Thanks Bri and all! I stand corrected   

[live2496]

Anyone here tried PDAudio? How much would the complete setup be (program, PDAudio, etc...)?

PDAudio is suitable as a bit-bucket. The best deal would be if you could find someone that has PDAudio and Live2496 software. The software license is transferable and if you can get the card for cheap enough all else you need is a suitable host and SD card.

Dell X51V or X50v are good hosts for PDAudio and from ebay it doesn't look like you would have to pay much for one. Other suitable systems I have used are the hp Hx2795 and the older H2200 series. The hx2795 is the one I use all the time for live recording when I just need a stereo track.

The other thing I should mention is that the older computers don't/can't use SDHC cards. Only SD cards. I recommend Transcend 300x cards if you can still find them. And to get maximum throughput, formatting is an important matter for these Windows Mobile systems.

It takes a little patience dealing with this but once you get it setup Live2496 can be good DAT transfer option.

New costs for PDAudio is $199 new and Live2496 is $99.

I bought an HP210 a couple of years ago and it can use SDHC cards which is a great feature. But performance is poorer than older system as I can't record 24-bits and 96kHz with it. But it would be fine for 16-bit and 48kHz or lower such as needed for DAT transfers. So when I go out for live recordings I still use the hx2795.

Gordon

P.S. Anyone thinking of going this route is welcome to check with me. Let me know your sampling rate and bit-depth requirements.

[page]

Thanks Bri and all! I stand corrected   

I was surprised as well. It just means that truncation doesn't bother many people is all. 

Anyone here tried PDAudio? How much would the complete setup be (program, PDAudio, etc...)?

PDAudio is suitable as a bit-bucket. The best deal would be if you could find someone that has PDAudio and Live2496 software. The software license is transferable and if you can get the card for cheap enough all else you need is a suitable host and SD card.

Interesting. I may do some research on that. For what will amount to an extra two channels of 24/44.1, it's sort of a waste to buy a tascam p2, or something expensive.