Topic: Some questions about shotguns...

[Swampy]

Hey, so Ive been thinking about getting some hypers for some bigger venues, and boomy arenas. Well, I found a pretty good deal on some ck98 shotgun caps for my mics and Im seriously considering it instead of hypers. But, I dont know a whole lot about guns. I know they are very dirctional ect... And Ive seen some Nak tapers use them, but Ive got some questions. Does anyone know of a website that has info about guns? Im wondering why they arn't commonly run, or why someone would run hypers over guns. Looking at the info, the pattern on the hypers doesnt look to be a whole lot narrower than hypers... If you physically could, would you want to run these in a pattern such as din... Every time ive seen tapers use them they just point them @ the edge of the stacks, it kind of looks like AB... How do guns work? Why are they so long? Could anyone offer up any info on guns? I pretty much have no idea about them! THANKS!!!!!!!! Alex

[F.O.Bean]

yeah, they diont do din and ortf because theyre so directional, i say get the hypers,a nd theyre not as big as the gun caps either

[Swampy]

anyone got any info on them?

[jessedscott]

Hey Alex, This is a archive from DAT-Heads from 1993. It does have some good info. If you ever want to try some guns lemme know.....

http://www.harmony-central.com/Other/mic-faq.txt



d) Shotgun
        This type of microphone is the most directional of the four.
        Shotguns have the most side rejection and thus are well suited for
        recording at a large distance.  Shotguns are the microphone of
        choice in the tapers' section at Grateful Dead shows.  Shotguns
        tend to have a number of drawbacks, however.  The less expensive
        shotguns will not have very good frequency response, especially in
        the lower octaves.  For this reason, lower-end shotguns are often
        described as "tinny" or "hollow" sounding.  Also, the drastic side
        rejection of a shotgun often results in recordings with a lack of
        "presence."  Expect to pay a fairly large sum to get a shotgun with
        20-20000 Hz perfromance.  Because of their large size, shotguns are
        not usually used upfront.  Directionality is useful for increasing
        the ratio of direct sound (from the stage and P.A. system) to
        reverberant and ambient sound (from the rest of the room).  This
        becomes more critical as the distance from mic to stage is
        increased.  Generally, one must pay more money for a shotgun in
        order to get as good sonic characteristics versus a less
        directional mic. 

        In contrast to omni's and cardiods, microphone placement is very
        critical with shotgun capsules, which some believe is more often
        the reason behind the "tinny, hollow" sound than the technical
        qualities of the microphones themselves.  These mics are very
        directional, and you really have to consider the fact that they are
        recording where you point them -- unlike omnis which record the
        sound where they are located.  After some years of experimentation
        with Nakamichi CM-100 bodies with the CP-4 shotgun capsules, I [sj]
        have found that the amount of bass in the recording is highly
        dependent on the position of the mic with respect to the PA.  My
        current alignment results in a very clear bass, almost to the point
        of considering the use of the "Lo-Cut" switch.  It is my opinion
        that the "traditional Dead Taper" placement does not adequately
        take these effects into account, hence the resulting "tinny,
        hollow" recordings that people dislike. 

[ts]

I used Nak shotguns(CP4) with CM300 bodies for taping GD when the OTS was created in 1984. Before the section was moved behind the board I always used the card caps or Beyer M88 hypers. My feeling was, without the use of a preamp, that cards were too distant sounding behind the board. I found that the shotguns, when pointed properly, pulled a tape that would sound much closer to the source, and the bass was still OK, but not great. I would only use the guns in large indoor arenas. Outdoors or small amphitheaters, I would always use cards or omnis. In other situations I would use Beyer M88's.
As the OTS kept getting moved futher back in the large arenas, often in the first riser section, the guns would'nt even do that good a job. More recently I tried the Neumann short guns. Although a very nice mic, they would also sound very distant in large indoor arenas. Long story short, it's hard to pull a good tape from way back in those big awful sounding indoor venues. I guess it depends on what type of venues you will frequent. If most of your taping involves big arenas, and your mic bodies have shotgun caps available, then give it a try. I would defintely not use them on lawns. Under a big shed, behind the board, they may be useful. Not practical or useful in any FOB situation.
Go with hypers, much more flexible.
ts

[jimmc]

I borrowed a pair of CP-4 Nak shotguns from Mark on this board and I have used them a whole 1 time for Galactic/moe/Xavier Rudd on 6/6 in Buffalo.  I ran CM300 (CP-4 Shotguns) > MX100 > JB3.  I was very surprised by the results.  I had a nice amount of bass on my recording. I was expecting a "treble" sound, but it was nice and balanced. I've heard some old GD shows w/ the Nak shotguns and I dont remember them being as bassy as mine. The only difference I had was the Nak MX-100 in the chain. I think that helped round out the bass to the rest of the recording. I'm temped to run them w/o the MX-100 at Derek Trucks in Buffalo this weekend just to see what the difference is.
Also, I ran the guns pointed at the outside edge of the stacks. Maybe the pre that you run after them could affect the bass or "presense" in the sound?
Just my $0.02,
Jim