The recorder has two analog inputs and two digital inputs AES42.
...
The recorder takes 2 to 6 tracks at a (64GB) SD Card, depending on model.
Too bad it only has, as far as we know at this point, two analog inputs. Four would be perfect. I'm still waiting for high end-ish 4-channel recorder with four XLR inputs/pres (but something not so plasticy as the R4/44).cant you count ?:-)
I am pretty sure you can have stereo AES42 connectors as well (i,e, 1 stereo mic off one 3pin XLR connector - ie Schoeps SuperCMIT)that's the last i care about , i more concern if could mirror to external media real time and has good limiters and maybe be updated to get 8 tracks in the future for more versatility
AES 42 is a protocol for direct digital interconnection between microphones and devices. The SD site does not mention or imply support for any other type of signalThe recorder has two analog inputs and two digital inputs AES42.
...
The recorder takes 2 to 6 tracks at a (64GB) SD Card, depending on model.
Two analog and two digital inputs, that makes four channels? Or does it mean that each digital input is stereo (i e feeding two channels in one stream)?
Otherwise where does track 5-6 take their signal from?
I guess this kind of gear competes with the SD744 or similar...
I am pretty sure you can have stereo AES42 connectors as well (i,e, 1 stereo mic off one 3pin XLR connector - ie Schoeps SuperCMIT)
bad assumptions, with that setup there would be no takers at all for that recorder :-)I am pretty sure you can have stereo AES42 connectors as well (i,e, 1 stereo mic off one 3pin XLR connector - ie Schoeps SuperCMIT)
So:
- AES42 1 = 2 tracks
- AES42 2 = 2 tracks
- Analog = 2 tracks
Total = 6 tracks
Isn't the Schoeps SuperCMIT cited a shotgun mic with a choice of two outputs not a stereo mic. It's either shotgun OR superCMIT output but not both. And even then would require digital phantom power which then means a three conductor type of connector, so only one channel per digital mic input. So the Aeta is a four track unit which can ONLY accept line input AND digital mic input.aes 42 stands for digital phantom on aes input , so yes you could use the both outputs at the same time when each of them routed to its own track , with normal digital microphone both channels with carry same data .
http://www.recording-microphone.com/digital-microphones.php
http://digital.schoeps.de/en/products/supercmit/application
Isn't the Schoeps SuperCMIT cited a shotgun mic with a choice of two outputs not a stereo mic. It's either shotgun OR superCMIT output but not both. And even then would require digital phantom power which then means a three conductor type of connector, so only one channel per digital mic input. So the Aeta is a four track unit which can ONLY accept line input AND digital mic input.
http://www.recording-microphone.com/digital-microphones.php (http://www.recording-microphone.com/digital-microphones.php)
http://digital.schoeps.de/en/products/supercmit/application (http://digital.schoeps.de/en/products/supercmit/application)
I'm still waiting for high end-ish 4-channel recorder with four XLR inputs/pres (but something not so plasticy as the R4/44).
I am pretty sure you can have stereo AES42 connectors as well (i,e, 1 stereo mic off one 3pin XLR connector - ie Schoeps SuperCMIT)
Isn't the Schoeps SuperCMIT cited a shotgun mic with a choice of two outputs not a stereo mic. It's either shotgun OR superCMIT output but not both. And even then would require digital phantom power which then means a three conductor type of connector, so only one channel per digital mic input. So the Aeta is a four track unit which can ONLY accept line input AND digital mic input.
http://www.recording-microphone.com/digital-microphones.php
http://digital.schoeps.de/en/products/supercmit/application
Nagra VI (http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_nagra_vi.php). ;D
Nagra VI (http://www.nagraaudio.com/pro/pages/products_nagra_vi.php). ;D
Yeah, in my dreams... :P
That's (quite) a bit out of my budget, I'm thinking more along the lines of a 744 with 4 pres or a future 766 box with Nagra VI input specs. I do love the VI though, it looks incredible.
• Powered by Li-Ion, 7.2V, DV type battery, with integrated charger.
• External power source: 9-18 VDC
• Autonomy > 6 hours (NP-F970 battery)
• Ethernet for remote control and maintenance
10.2”x3.0”x7.7”
I'll by at SATIS trade show (october 19 to 21) where they'll exhibit the prototype, I'll try to ask as much question as possible and get some pictures :P
Looks nice - 4 analog inputs, 6 digital inputs w/ 2 AES 42.
A little bigger than I was expecting.
@ 4200 Euros though I would expect this to be in the $6000 range here in the States
$6000 range puts it in direct comp with the 788T - that would make it a hard sell here.
When I paid the AETA people a visit a few years ago, their head engineer HATED the preamps on the SD 7xx recorders. I have to think that this is designed to directly compete with the SD recorders, only with much better preamps. The Mixy sounded terrific; hopefully this will take it a step further.almost anything sounds better then sd preamps :-)
the weight is 1.3kg incl battery , half the weight of 788Errrr ... Did you read my post ?
any combination of 6 track recording between them , ability to remix the mix track , i would guess the recorder will be under 4 k euro
Quotethe weight is 1.3kg incl battery , half the weight of 788Errrr ... Did you read my post ?
any combination of 6 track recording between them , ability to remix the mix track , i would guess the recorder will be under 4 k euro
The weight is 2.1kg with an NPF970, 1.9 without battery. It's right on the spec PDF.
It won't record "any combination of 6 tracks" but 4 tracks + stereo mixdown.
The recorder won't be under 4k€, at least not for the model with the most features.
I saw them in person last week at SATIS trade show in paris and asked directly. I guess the info they gave me was pretty "real".yes , i still wait for 25 answers to questions i asked by email , they probably still shocked by my english :-)
monophonic files only - polyphonic later
each potentiometer could be used as fader or pan pot.
so is the master fader pot which could act as line ins or digital ins fader - so 5 individual faders for 6 inputs
all digital inputs re clocked
digital gain to work with digital mics
playback files during recording
up to 2 amp on usb bus to power external hdd or anything else.
meta data
distance mixer recorder operation from external computer
herosa 10p output plug - factory installation only
in future
2 media recording and mirroring
polyphonic files
compressor limiter on mix tracks
eq in digital domain
dual file recording ( mix and individual tracks )
aditional meta data if the current is not enough
first at all they see the 4 mnix as digital mixer with the best analog stage you can get .
second, up to 6 track recorder
Being showcased in Dubai, Feb 8-10:if there will be a good target :-)
http://www.aeta-audio.com/english/news_detail.php?id=52
Anybody going there - Oleg?
So has anyone heard one of these ???
So has anyone heard one of these ???
Not yet. I saw it at the European AES in London last month - it's actually one of only two recorders that can take AES42 digital microphones direct in.
The mic. pre-amps should be absolutely superb if they are like the small mixer they do and it does seem to be built extremely ruggedly.
The UK distributor will be sending me one for evaluation when he gets them.
So has anyone heard one of these ???
Not yet. I saw it at the European AES in London last month - it's actually one of only two recorders that can take AES42 digital microphones direct in.
The mic. pre-amps should be absolutely superb if they are like the small mixer they do and it does seem to be built extremely ruggedly.
The UK distributor will be sending me one for evaluation when he gets them.
Along w/ a 788T, correct?
So has anyone heard one of these ???
Not yet. I saw it at the European AES in London last month - it's actually one of only two recorders that can take AES42 digital microphones direct in.
The mic. pre-amps should be absolutely superb if they are like the small mixer they do and it does seem to be built extremely ruggedly.
The UK distributor will be sending me one for evaluation when he gets them.
Along w/ a 788T, correct?
Yes - the AETA 4MinX and the SD 788T.
I have just heard that AETA hope to get me a unit in the next couple of weeks as I am doing a paper on digital microphones at the UK AES Conference "The Ins and Outs of Audio" at the end of the month.
It's still not fully ready for release, though - almost, but not quite.
had the chance to play with it , the pres are excellent , it mirrors now to 2 second media , in 2 months from now it will be able to work with any usb controller . up to 8 tracks recording for 10 available inputs .
smocks the 744 for almost everything
5OOO US$ FOR 8 TRACK version if you don't need tc - 5800 with tc board
additional 5000 if you need soundfield 7.1 or 5.1 multiplexing
thats a pro gear - if you are a hobbies , buy a tascam 680 - simple as that
Got pricing back from Pro-Sound and it is much more than I was expecting - I guess import taxes kill it:
These prices are w/o Timecode enabled:
4MINX 2 Mixer + 2-track recording $5,150
4MINX 4 Mixer + 4-track recording $5,775
4MINX 6 Mixer + 6-track recording $6,375
4MINX 8 Mixer + 8-track recording $7,125 (may include timecode - got price from another TS member)
Got pricing back from Pro-Sound and it is much more than I was expecting - I guess import taxes kill it:
These prices are w/o Timecode enabled:
4MINX 2 Mixer + 2-track recording $5,150
4MINX 4 Mixer + 4-track recording $5,775
4MINX 6 Mixer + 6-track recording $6,375
4MINX 8 Mixer + 8-track recording $7,125 (may include timecode - got price from another TS member)
I was originally not a fan. but after doing a little bit of research it seemed like a good option. I E-Mailed Aeta which took more then a week to get back to me (Bad sign). The person who was in charge of US sales actually never responded (Another bad sign). when i finally got the pricing and i was really let down. Timecode is a additional $675! WTF!!! the only thing reasonable was the track upgrade options pricing. Aeta needs to rethink this product line and figure out how to make them competitive with the big players!
There is actually nothing wrong with those prices and they are certainly in the same ball-park as the competition - assuming the competition to be Nagra, Aaton Cantar and Sound Devices.
The Nagra VI is, I think, $9,000 in the US - this makes the AETA 4MinX about $3,000 cheaper - so, the prices are in the same ball-park as the competitors.
In Europe it's competitive, coming in cheaper than the SD 788T and the Nagra VI.
It's only in the US that Sound Devices have a competitive advantage as they are made in the US - Nagra, AETA and Aaton all have Customs Duty to pay in the US as well as the cost of shipping it accross the Atlantic.
Got pricing back from Pro-Sound and it is much more than I was expecting - I guess import taxes kill it:$5,150 for a two track is not reasonable or competitive with anything.
These prices are w/o Timecode enabled:
4MINX 2 Mixer + 2-track recording $5,150
$5,150 for a two track is not reasonable or competitive with anything.
I was super surprised to see a Sax SX-R$ already in the taping world and in team New England(IE HOME-TURF) no less.There is actually nothing wrong with those prices and they are certainly in the same ball-park as the competition - assuming the competition to be Nagra, Aaton Cantar and Sound Devices.
The Nagra VI is, I think, $9,000 in the US - this makes the AETA 4MinX about $3,000 cheaper - so, the prices are in the same ball-park as the competitors.
In Europe it's competitive, coming in cheaper than the SD 788T and the Nagra VI.
It's only in the US that Sound Devices have a competitive advantage as they are made in the US - Nagra, AETA and Aaton all have Customs Duty to pay in the US as well as the cost of shipping it accross the Atlantic.
I don't agree - The Sonosax SX-R4 is $6200 in the US which is very competitive with SD788T with a similar feature set and this is Aeta's first recorder as compared to Nagra whom have been making recorders for over 50 years. I don't know anything about Aaton's history so I can't comment there.
I think this may be attractive for the movie industry where in many cases money is no object but I would not expect to see one in the taper world any time soon if ever.
I was super surprised to see a Sax SX-R$ already in the taping world and in team New England(IE HOME-TURF) no less.
Here's a video: http://vimeo.com/40839170 (http://vimeo.com/40839170)
Around the 6 minute mark he says the full version will be around $6k.
Here's a video: http://vimeo.com/40839170 (http://vimeo.com/40839170)
Around the 6 minute mark he says the full version will be around $6k.
Unfortunately per the official price list from Aeta (attached above in the thread) the full blown version is $7785
Got pricing back from Pro-Sound and it is much more than I was expecting - I guess import taxes kill it:
These prices are w/o Timecode enabled:
4MINX 2 Mixer + 2-track recording $5,150
4MINX 4 Mixer + 4-track recording $5,775
4MINX 6 Mixer + 6-track recording $6,375
4MINX 8 Mixer + 8-track recording $7,125 (may include timecode - got price from another TS member)
I was originally not a fan. but after doing a little bit of research it seemed like a good option. I E-Mailed Aeta which took more then a week to get back to me (Bad sign). The person who was in charge of US sales actually never responded (Another bad sign). when i finally got the pricing and i was really let down. Timecode is a additional $675! WTF!!! the only thing reasonable was the track upgrade options pricing. Aeta needs to rethink this product line and figure out how to make them competitive with the big players!
There is actually nothing wrong with those prices and they are certainly in the same ball-park as the competition - assuming the competition to be Nagra, Aaton Cantar and Sound Devices.
The Nagra VI is, I think, $9,000 in the US - this makes the AETA 4MinX about $3,000 cheaper - so, the prices are in the same ball-park as the competitors.
In Europe it's competitive, coming in cheaper than the SD 788T and the Nagra VI.
It's only in the US that Sound Devices have a competitive advantage as they are made in the US - Nagra, AETA and Aaton all have Customs Duty to pay in the US as well as the cost of shipping it accross the Atlantic.
I totally disagree. That is not competitive at all. I don't care what the pre's sound like. This is a beta product with a very small user base from a company that hasnt been around that long making decks. the fact is that even in the markets it sells well in, it is still being out sold by its competitor. there is no way to get around that!
At £2999 that is only around $4800 which is much more reasonable.
Aeta too exp in US
SD too exp in Europe
They are pricing themselves out of the local markets is the problem
At £2999 that is only around $4800 which is much more reasonable.
Aeta too exp in US
SD too exp in Europe
They are pricing themselves out of the local markets is the problem
More like shipping across continents and duty that do it.
Anything that sells in the US for $1,000 will normally sell in the UK for £1,000 - that's about 50% more.
I assume it's similar going the other way.
I agree about the US where SD and Zax are so cheap compared to their European price.
And European made stuff is so much more expensive than in Europe.
But in Europe it is the other way round - and the AETA is the equal of Nagra and Aaton in sound quality.
And comparing AETA to Zax is a bit like comparing Mercedes to a Ford ;)
I agree about the US where SD and Zax are so cheap compared to their European price.
And European made stuff is so much more expensive than in Europe.
But in Europe it is the other way round - and the AETA is the equal of Nagra and Aaton in sound quality.
And comparing AETA to Zax is a bit like comparing Mercedes to a Ford ;)
i wouldnt say that. i clearly pointed out there isnt a huge price difference between. The Nomad runs circles around Aeta. you seem to forget mostly field mixers are going to be buying these. so although having great sounding pres is one thing. Reliability and functionality is more important. The 4minX would not be able to compete on as big of a scale in the field because of Zaxcom's Zaxnet.
At 6200$ in the states it isn't exactly cheap, but it certainly looks like a quality recorder. OOK
Having now had a much closer look at the AETA 4MinX - it is actually a lot better than I initially thought it was.
It has 10 inputs (4 x Mic/line, 2 x Line, 4 x AES3/AES42) which can be mixed in any way you like onto 8 channels - or - mix in any way you like on to 6 channels and use the last 2 channels for a stereo mix.
It is the only recorder that has the option for using both Digital microphones and a Soundfield microphone with Soundfield monitoring.
It is the same high quality level as the Aaton Cantar and Nagra VI at a much lower price level. It is even a good deal cheaper than the SD 788T.
It also is the right size - not so small that it becomes fiddly to use (without buying external control panels), or too large that it can become unwieldy in a bag.
AETA had lots of help from professional sound engineers in refining the software - and the current version is very different from the initial unit from 2011 (but anyone with an initial unit would have been able to update it to the latest version with firmware updates).
The more I see it, the more impressed I am.
(http://www.aeta-audio.com/uploads/pics/4MinX_big2.jpg) (http://www.aeta-audio.com/index.php?id=sound_recording_mixing)
Now this thread has been resurrected...
Today's 4MinX is quite a bit better than the version from a few years ago, as AETA have introduced several firmware updates with improvements in the meantime.
For instance - every input now has an adjustable delay, so that if you are mixing digital and analogue inputs or, for example, using a Schoeps SuperCMiT, you can delay any input you want so everything remans in sync.
You can follow all the updates HERE (http://www.aeta-audio.com/index.php?id=4minx_history).
Now this thread has been resurrected...
Today's 4MinX is quite a bit better than the version from a few years ago, as AETA have introduced several firmware updates with improvements in the meantime.
For instance - every input now has an adjustable delay, so that if you are mixing digital and analogue inputs or, for example, using a Schoeps SuperCMiT, you can delay any input you want so everything remans in sync.
You can follow all the updates HERE (http://www.aeta-audio.com/index.php?id=4minx_history).
Having now had a much closer look at the AETA 4MinX - it is actually a lot better than I initially thought it was.
It has 10 inputs (4 x Mic/line, 2 x Line, 4 x AES3/AES42) which can be mixed in any way you like onto 8 channels - or - mix in any way you like on to 6 channels and use the last 2 channels for a stereo mix.
It is the only recorder that has the option for using both Digital microphones and a Soundfield microphone with Soundfield monitoring.
It is the same high quality level as the Aaton Cantar and Nagra VI at a much lower price level. It is even a good deal cheaper than the SD 788T.
It also is the right size - not so small that it becomes fiddly to use (without buying external control panels), or too large that it can become unwieldy in a bag.
AETA had lots of help from professional sound engineers in refining the software - and the current version is very different from the initial unit from 2011 (but anyone with an initial unit would have been able to update it to the latest version with firmware updates).
The more I see it, the more impressed I am.
^nice!!
8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?
>:D
^nice!!
8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's. Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.
StuStu and John Willett also have this machine and have offered guidance to me in running it. It's not rocket science but it has a lot of features and it is NOT like running my sd722. I like it and I am up to the challenge.
Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?
>:D
It is actually a very comfortably sized recorder, not too large, not too small. It is also a lighter weight than it looks but it is solidly built!
^nice!!
8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's. Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.
^nice!!
8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's. Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.
It really doesn't make sense to compare the 4Minx, or any modern preamp/recorder for that matter, to gear that was manufactured 20 years ago. No one is designing TL071 inputs into custom made input transformers ala the PSP-2 (the company that made the transformers doesn't even have a datasheet for them anymore) and the PSP-3 is nothing more than an SSM2017 preamp with a whole bunch of M/S circuitry... it's a good one, but hardly revolutionary in 2016.
I can guarantee you that there isn't a single common IC or meaningful component between the devices and I'd even doubt if any of the same people that developed the 4minx were even around when the PSPs were developed.
It's only "more-like" the PSP-3 because of the transformerless inputs. I could name a dozen different modern preamps based on instrumentation amplifiers that sound "just like" the PSP-3.
When you get into the world of studio preamps, people have their preferences and biases and experiences, but almost none can express those in technical terms, and when their subjective evaluations get challenged with actual technical measurements, suddenly they get very very defensive . . .
What's so hard to believe about AETA basing the pres from their OWN wonderful sounding PSP-3? Why change a great pre?
Are you suggesting transformerless pres all sound alike? And by all means, let us all know the dozen pres that sound like the PSP-3. I'd love to try them out.
^nice!!
8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
Drool....
(http://i.vimeocdn.com/video/282459649_1280x720.jpg)
Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?
>:D
Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting. We like to think there are huge subjective differences, but unfortunately the science rarely agrees and that can be hard for our egos to deal with. Jon said this really well once.
When you get into the world of studio preamps, people have their preferences and biases and experiences, but almost none can express those in technical terms, and when their subjective evaluations get challenged with actual technical measurements, suddenly they get very very defensive . . .
Preamps have a simple, defined purpose; Amplify a low-level signal equally across all frequencies while introducing as little noise as possible. There might be some secondary functions like bass roll-off, but otherwise it should be ruler flat 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Unfortunately, a mountain of bad science and marketing bullshit in the audio world has obscured this very simple purpose and led people to believe that a preamp should be 'bright' or 'dark' or... whatever.
If you really think you understand the sonic characteristics of these preamps, then I would challenge you to discuss them in technical terms rather than anecdotes. A frequency response chart or Bode plot is not hard to generate, even the most humble of computer sound cards can take accurate measurements. If you really think these two preamps share a sonic characteristic, then surely we would see evidence of that in a frequency response chart, right? How about looking at THD and harmonics? Shouldn't those also match? I've taken measurements on all these pres and would encourage anyone to do the same. It's not hard; everyone should know how to do it.
Heck, even some sound comps would be better than anecdotes. As maybe the only person on this forum with a 4Minx, why haven't you done this?
What's so hard to believe about AETA basing the pres from their OWN wonderful sounding PSP-3? Why change a great pre?
Because that's not how engineering works. You don't start with a sound and work backwards. You don't make 20 different circuits and perform critical listening tests until you find the circuit that "has that classic Aeta sound." Engineers work with a set of technical requirements (i.e. ruler flat frequency response, low power consumption, specific gain ranges), choose parts based on component level specifications, pricing & availability, reliability, etc... and then validate everything with technical measurements, not their ears.
And as for the second-hand knowledge you are throwing around regarding Aeta's opinion, do you really believe that an engineer at Aeta would say "the 4minx was designed to sound like the PSP-3" when they have released so many products since? Why wouldn't he have said it was based off the Mixy or the Scoop or any other product developed by Aeta that is literally lightyears ahead of the PSP-3? The answer is pretty simple. A taper asked him "does it sound more like X or Y" and he responded with the option that made the most sense. This kind of anecdotal information might be interesting, but is easily misused and often does more harm than good.
Are you suggesting transformerless pres all sound alike? And by all means, let us all know the dozen pres that sound like the PSP-3. I'd love to try them out.
If we're talking about modern, instrumentation amplifier based pres (INA217/SSM2017/THAT151x or the dozens of other, newer chips out there), then yes. It's an incredibly common circuit topology and not the secret sauce or voodoo magic you'd like it to be.
Aeta did a great job engineering the PSP-3, but I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of R&D was focused on enclosure design, pcb layout work, implementing features like M/S decoding, left/right balance, power supply design, etc. Heck, more than half the circuity in the PSP-3 is dedicated to these auxiliary features alone. The amplification circuit is probably the simplest thing in there and even then, it's fairly dated. For example, there are definitely more exotic ways tackle dc offest across the entire gain range than a 1000uF capacitor in series with Rg and with some of the newer chips, you don't even have to solve for it.
The same goes for the 4Minx, but now you've got all sorts of digital stuff in the mix, firmware coding, etc. That stuff is what makes a solid, modern product, not the 'sound.'
I can think of a few pres with wildly difference sonic signatures, but that isn't necessarily a good thing (I'm looking at you m248... worst fucking preamp ever. keep getting fleeced, sheep).
It would behoove all of use to focus on features, pricing, and customer service / support rather than "sound."
We ran an m248 a few years ago. Every recording it made had almost no frequency response below 100 Hz. They were the thinnest, hollowist recordings we've ever heard; clearly something was not right. Doug looks at it, insists everything was OK, but could not provide any frequency response charts or demonstrable technical data to support his claim. It was clearly fucked and he was not technically competent enough to address it properly.
YMMV, but in my opinion the Oade's are the biggest snake-oil salesmen this community has ever seen.
In contrast, when Vark repairs my PSP2, I was provided a full suite of frequency response charts for every setting using an Audio Precision analyzer. Professionals vs. amateurs.
I can see your going to have a great time at Red Rocks with all of us southern guys
That philosophy is why I'm even bothering to weigh in on this thread. The 4minx is a $5000 piece of equipment that does far more than anyone on this forum will ever need. If you're using it exclusively for concert taping, you're using maybe 5% of its overall features which is fine if you have the money to spend on a cool tool, but not something we should encourage by idolizing two pieces of gear that are dinosaurs in comparison. I don't always agree with what John has to say, but in this case he's spot on. Compare it to the Sonosax or Nagra because that's the appropriate comparison.
You have the option to select a 4MinX without the Time Code and Surround Sound (Soundfield) options. If you can live without those two features, which I can, you can probably purchase a 4MinX for less than the cost of a new SD744T.
Firmware based pricing is an absolute joke. Only a corporate shill would defend that bullshit.
Firmware based pricing is an absolute joke. Only a corporate shill would defend that bullshit.
Why?
Firmware costs money to develop and it's reasonable not to have to pay for facilities you don't need.
The Soundfield software cost quite a bit to develop - why should someone who does not want it have to pay for it?
I can, sort of, see your point on the track count - but it does enable someone who want's a more basic machine to buy it cheaper.
Second, anytime you sell a piece of hardware that is somehow disabled or locked to the consumer, it's completely and utterly offensive. It can also be dangerous (https://www.jailbreakingisnotacrime.org/). Phone manufacturers are the worst, quickly followed by car manufacturers, and consumers have been forced to fight tooth and nail for the right to own, repair, and fully use the hardware they have rightfully purchased.
You have the option to select a 4MinX without the Time Code and Surround Sound (Soundfield) options. If you can live without those two features, which I can, you can probably purchase a 4MinX for less than the cost of a new SD744T.
Contact Justin Marinoff at Sound-Pro for pricing on this equipment.
Justin Marinoff <justin@pro-sound.com>
John,
Going by the price list on your website (http://sound-link.co.uk/info/price-lists.html), the pricing between the different levels is much smaller than what I anticipated. From the cheapest (mixer only) to the 8-track option, the difference is 621 GBP or about $835 US. I'm not much a fan of the firmware-based pricing scheme either, but if owners can buy the less expensive version initially and then upgrade at relatively reasonable cost, then it's not that bad. And it's not much different from what software companies do with different "levels". I use iZotope RX4, which is the same things as the Advanced version but with certain features deactivated.
I also appreciate that Aeta chose to use reasonably-priced DV batteries for this unit.
Is your price list reflecting retail prices? I can't find it for sale many places, and the difference between your prices and others is significant:
http://www.pinknoise-systems.co.uk/aeta-4-minx-mixer-and-multitrack-recorder.html (http://www.pinknoise-systems.co.uk/aeta-4-minx-mixer-and-multitrack-recorder.html) - the only other seller I could find in the UK
http://sonoproaudio.com/store/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=4minx (http://sonoproaudio.com/store/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=4minx) - Quebec
http://www.pro-sound.com/p/aeta-systems-4-min-x-multi-track-mixer-recorder.html (http://www.pro-sound.com/p/aeta-systems-4-min-x-multi-track-mixer-recorder.html) - $6200 US for 6-track version?!?!
For voltronic...You have the option to select a 4MinX without the Time Code and Surround Sound (Soundfield) options. If you can live without those two features, which I can, you can probably purchase a 4MinX for less than the cost of a new SD744T.
Contact Justin Marinoff at Sound-Pro for pricing on this equipment.
Justin Marinoff <justin@pro-sound.com>
;D
^^ A lot of companies compel their distributors to advertise at a certain price; sometimes calling around can get you a deal. I am pretty sure a couple of the major mics brands do this...
Why do you think this is so offensive?
Or do you really want only the maxxed out version available at the highest price?
Why do you think this is so offensive?
I've already answered this question. You sell a piece me a piece of hardware, I fully expect to be able to use it. Selling me non-recordable inputs is like a car-manufacturer saying I should pay more if I want to be able to drive faster than 65 mph. There are so many other good anecdotes, but honestly it's exhausting cutting through the corporate shillary.
Or do you really want only the maxxed out version available at the highest price?
You make this sound as though it's a value prop to everyone, but the argument actually works in the opposite. Why should someone who wants all available features subsidize the costs of those that don't? Why should those consumers have to foot the bill for the additional R&D costs allocated to needless firmware versions and the marketing costs associated with maintaining a complicated SKU list? Based on the comments in this very thread, I would argue the complicated SKU list and hidden pricing scheme has done nothing but drive away customers.
I can't think of any software based features sold on cars that are disabled. Maybe satellite radio, but that is a stretch (again, licensing). Everything else is hardware. If car manufacturers controlled features via software, they would instantly be hacked as modding cars is a huge industry with millions of hobbyists. Hell, even the digital oscilloscope I own has been hacked for years to double the Hz, and the market for consumer grade scopes is tiny.
If you want to make hardware modular, great. No one is paying for hardware they aren't using. This is all about the slippery slope; give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
I can't think of any software based features sold on cars that are disabled. Maybe satellite radio, but that is a stretch (again, licensing). Everything else is hardware. If car manufacturers controlled features via software, they would instantly be hacked as modding cars is a huge industry with millions of hobbyists. Hell, even the digital oscilloscope I own has been hacked for years to double the Hz, and the market for consumer grade scopes is tiny.
If you want to make hardware modular, great. No one is paying for hardware they aren't using. This is all about the slippery slope; give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Not to belabor the car analogy, but I can think of two examples off the top of my head. For quite a while, BMW sold a "detuned" version of the M3 in the US market that was programmed through software to respond differently, most likely to conform to US emissions standards. Using the same exact engine, transmission, exhaust, etc., it produced about 80 bhp less in the US version than the European version running different software. I think Honda did something similar with the Civic Si / Civic R for a while as well.
A more reasonable example might be the Subaru I own, which is an upgraded trim level that gives it paddle shifters among other things. It's the same exact engine and ECU as the base model, but mine just has the software to allow the manumatic shifting and the switches on the steering column.
BMW's software upgrades will surely attract buyers seeking a quick, relatively cheap hit of power, but it also might signal a bigger D.I.Y. trend of consumers wondering how they can extract more power from their bottled up engines themselves, without having to pay the proverbial piper.
I can't think of any software based features sold on cars that are disabled. Maybe satellite radio, but that is a stretch (again, licensing). Everything else is hardware. If car manufacturers controlled features via software, they would instantly be hacked as modding cars is a huge industry with millions of hobbyists. Hell, even the digital oscilloscope I own has been hacked for years to double the Hz, and the market for consumer grade scopes is tiny.
If you want to make hardware modular, great. No one is paying for hardware they aren't using. This is all about the slippery slope; give them an inch and they'll take a mile.
Aeta isn't the only one with this licensing scheme - Zaxcom does this as well with its extremely popular nomad series and other then people here I have seen no one else complain about this...
Personally, I would not go for a Zaxcom. Their ergonomics and digital expertise are superb - but they do seem to lack on the analogue side - and I have heard this from many sources.
Zaxcom I respect for being the first HD recorder and they make some good stuff. But I don't like their attitude - I won't go into chapter and verse, but I have met the man from Zaxcom and know several users. I'm not saying they are bad, just that there are certain things I don't like and reasons I would not buy one.
From what I have seen of the Zaxcom, I would never use one, whatever the price.
My post above isn't a troll. I'm quoting him as a resource.
I agree with hi and lo, and, I have to admit, I am kind of at a loss as to why anyone would think this pricing scheme is OK. When you buy the most basic "model", you are actually buying all of those pre-amps, even if you can't use them. AETA sold you the complete hardware package (excepting timecode, I guess) and presumably made a profit doing so. To actually charge you more money to use the pres you already paid for is simply ridiculous. This is not like tonedeaf's analogy where the automaker has different engines available (4- or 6-, or turbo 6-cylinder, for example) and you pay more for a better engine that also costs more to produce. In this case, everyone is paying for the turbo 6, but you can't actually use the top two cylinders or the turbo unless you pay some extra premium. Lame.
I agree with hi and lo, and, I have to admit, I am kind of at a loss as to why anyone would think this pricing scheme is OK. When you buy the most basic "model", you are actually buying all of those pre-amps, even if you can't use them. AETA sold you the complete hardware package (excepting timecode, I guess) and presumably made a profit doing so. To actually charge you more money to use the pres you already paid for is simply ridiculous. This is not like tonedeaf's analogy where the automaker has different engines available (4- or 6-, or turbo 6-cylinder, for example) and you pay more for a better engine that also costs more to produce. In this case, everyone is paying for the turbo 6, but you can't actually use the top two cylinders or the turbo unless you pay some extra premium. Lame.
This is silly and written without any knowledge it seems.
The mic. pre-amps are usable on *all* versions - on the 0-track version all 10 inputs are fully available to the user - just that in this configuration the unit is a mixer only and doesn't record.
Right. Well, the way I see it, is if I buy a recorder with X pre-amps, I should be able to record X pre-amps. Apparently, you're mileage may vary, but I won't call you silly or ignorant for thinking that. ::)
^why would i want to pay for a recorder if all that i was looking for is a mixer??
......i'm just stirring the pot. ;)
It's not like any of you can afford a Nagra VI so who cares if the battery costs X.
^why would i want to pay for a recorder if all that i was looking for is a mixer??
......i'm just stirring the pot. ;)
Look guys if you don't like the pricing model don't buy the product and move the fuck on! This incessant Trolling gets you all nowhere and is one of the reason taperssection is going to shit IMO.
It's not like any of you can afford a Nagra VI so who cares if the battery costs X. Same here - go play with you toys elsewhere!
And the way you see it is correct - you *can* use *all* the pre-amps in every version.
There is nothing that stops the use of *any* pre-amp.
Um....... I'm agreeing with the pricing system. I'm saying that if I only want a mixer (0-track) then why would I want to pay for the 10 channel recorder option. If I'm understanding John correctly, that is how the pricing system works. You get full pre-amp/mixer features without the recorder when you purchase the 0-track version. Or you can get the various recorder options (#'s of tracks) on top of that if you want.. for an additional cost depending how many recordable tracks you would like to purchase. Is that correct??
That is the error in Snowman's post: if you only buy the mixer, you bought the recorder, too...
And the way you see it is correct - you *can* use *all* the pre-amps in every version.
There is nothing that stops the use of *any* pre-amp.
Fine, John. Replace the "pre" in that (admittedly imperfectly worded) post and replace it with "hardware". I expect to be able to use all of the hardware that is in a box I purchase. If the recorder is in there, and by your previous posts it is, I should be able to use it. That is the error in Snowman's post: if you only buy the mixer, you bought the recorder, too...
^ Exactly. Except you are always paying for the full glass and you have to pay extra if you want to drink the whole thing!
^ A recorder requires hardware. That hardware is in the box. You paid for the box. You have to pay extra for some little piece of code to enable the use of that hardware in the box. To me, that kind of sucks, although you obviously see it differently. We'll just have to agree to disagree...
What hardware?
This is getting ridiculous. AETA has a particular way they want to sell this unit, with different prices to reflect different options. If you don't agree with their pricing structure, you are free to buy a competing product that is priced in a way you're more comfortable with. Why continue arguing over something that's firmly set?
Because it's a discussion board? You are free to read a competing thread that has a topic you're more comfortable with...
What hardware?
Writing to a card is a physical process, which, while governed by software, presumably requires some sort of microcontroller for I/O. Not to mention the SD slot itself. But I am sure I am missing something, and you are entirely correct. I leave the issue to your expertise...
This is getting ridiculous. AETA has a particular way they want to sell this unit, with different prices to reflect different options. If you don't agree with their pricing structure, you are free to buy a competing product that is priced in a way you're more comfortable with. Why continue arguing over something that's firmly set?
Because it's a discussion board? You are free to read a competing thread that has a topic you're more comfortable with...
Sorry, guys, but I have the same right to post my opinions as every other member of the board. If you don't like it, you have a variety of options at your disposal. You could, as you see fit, ignore the threads and/or posts, implement the "ignore user" function, or report my "trolling" to the mods (although that last may be a tough sell)...
IMO and others here you are definitely trolling up this thread - with your rig in your signature you have absolutely no interest in buying a recorder at this level - you are simply bumping this thread only for your own egotistical purposes and to enjoy flaming a dead argument
Devils advocates like you are the bane to sites like this and make it a very unpleasant experience - only jump in to stir up a pot of shit and see how big it blows up.
You and the other trolls on this thread and a few others here will never get any favors or respect from me - but I know you don't give a shit
He only has one set of stealth mics
and lives in Europe where open taping is very limited
Can anyone with direct experience comment on the performance of the 4MINX preamps compared to Nagra, Sound Devices, etc? I'm curious if they have a "sound" or are more or less neutral.
Responding via PM as we're now well off topic. Speaking of...
Can anyone with direct experience comment on the performance of the 4MINX preamps compared to Nagra, Sound Devices, etc? I'm curious if they have a "sound" or are more or less neutral.
^
I think that there is a firmware update in the pipeline.
Have you contacted AETA with any of your concerns?
Nice review of the 4Minx...photos of all sides, battery slot and EXTENSIVE menus. Excellent description of setup when using the Soundfield SPS200 microphone.
LINK (http://www.reviews.audioskill.co.uk/4MINX_INTRO.html)
Nice review of the 4Minx...photos of all sides, battery slot and EXTENSIVE menus. Excellent description of setup when using the Soundfield SPS200 microphone.
LINK (http://www.reviews.audioskill.co.uk/4MINX_INTRO.html)
Nice review of the 4Minx...photos of all sides, battery slot and EXTENSIVE menus. Excellent description of setup when using the Soundfield SPS200 microphone.
LINK (http://www.reviews.audioskill.co.uk/4MINX_INTRO.html)
This was a good in-depth review, but based on a very early machine.
There have been quite a few firmware updates since this review.
Oh - the point about shielding - there are metal sheets under the polymer top and bottom to give excellent shielding, while keeping the weight light.
There is also another review, done in December 2013, by Alistair McGhee - the PDF of this review is HERE (http://sound-link.co.uk/pdf/AETA%204MinX%20Review%20-%20Alistair%20McGhee.pdf).
4Minx owners....what bag are you using?
Strange size 260 x 75 x 195 mm (10.2” x 3.0” x 7.7”) either you get a bag that would hold two (Satchler P602)...and I'm not running Lectro's or a one that is not tall enough and a inch or so would be above the lip (Satchler SN617 & Orca 30).
Sachtler - SN602
http://www.sachtler.com/products/bags/audio-equipment/sound-bags/sound-bag1/
Sachtler - SN602
http://www.sachtler.com/products/bags/audio-equipment/sound-bags/sound-bag1/
He's got a Petrol 602 on the way!
For me...the Petrol ps602 is A bit large. I decided to try the ps617...seems that it may be more elegant....just able to get all my stuff into it comfortably (4MinX - large K2 Maxoak battery & 2 sets of actives with delrin bar & mounts).
FYI...the Anton Bauer L batteries NP-F976 fit perfectly.
For me...the Petrol ps602 is A bit large. I decided to try the ps617...seems that it may be more elegant....just able to get all my stuff into it comfortably (4MinX - large K2 Maxoak battery & 2 sets of actives with delrin bar & mounts).
FYI...the Anton Bauer L batteries NP-F976 fit perfectly.
:coolguy: for the ps617
Have you tested the longevity of the Anton Bauer L batteries NP-F976 yet? Nice to hear that they actually plug into the 4MinX without difficulty!
Ran NOS on Milab and Gefell cardioids on the same stand for DelFest Thursday. I'm loving it.
Health issues have severely cramped my recording activities for the moment. I'm working on a comeback!
AETA Audio Systems stops the production of 4MINX
Dear partners and users,
for several months, we have been looking for a partnership to maintain the production of 4Minx, with an acceptable price level.
Unfortunately, our research did not succeed, we had the choice between strongly increase the price of the 4Minx, or stop the production, it is this second solution which was retained.
AETA thus stops definitively the manufacture of the 4Minx and the diffusion of new update.
We would like to thank all the users of 4Minx, whose passion made our decision all the more difficult to take.
We will continue to support you and ensure the maintenance and repairs of the 4Minx, so you can enjoy your device for as long as possible.
We wish you, partner, distributors and users of 4MINX, all the success possible in your projects.
The AETA team
I'm sorry to hear this but not surprised. I'm sure that the new Sound Devices Mixpre series had something to do with this.
I really hoped that there would be an upgrade on this unit to support the new SDXC Cards...oh well off to buy the last Samsung 32GB SDHC PRO Class 10 cards...
I'm sorry to hear this but not surprised. I'm sure that the new Sound Devices Mixpre series had something to do with this.
Any thoughts on comparison of the preamps of these two units...since you have both. >:D
What other brands of USB cards are folks using with the 4MinX other than Samsung pro ? Supply of Samsung Pro 32 gig cards have dried up....can I use 64 gig SDSX with the understanding that it formats to 32 gig?
Early on I tried some SanDisk pro cards but they were not recognized in this unit.
I can't believe the 4Minx only takes a 32gig card and only certain cards!! Aeta really should make that right with a firmware update.
I can't believe the 4Minx only takes a 32gig card and only certain cards!! Aeta really should make that right with a firmware update.
I can't believe the 4Minx only takes a 32gig card and only certain cards!! Aeta really should make that right with a firmware update.
^Info from AETA: Actually the maximum storage card size available is 4gb (SD) and 128gb (SDHC). We highly recommend high speed cards. Supports class 10 or similar.
Do you have a 128 gig card that works?I can't believe the 4Minx only takes a 32gig card and only certain cards!! Aeta really should make that right with a firmware update.
^Info from AETA: Actually the maximum storage card size available is 4gb (SD) and 128gb (SDHC). We highly recommend high speed cards. Supports class 10 or similar.
When I paid the AETA people a visit a few years ago, their head engineer HATED the preamps on the SD 7xx recorders. I have to think that this is designed to directly compete with the SD recorders, only with much better preamps. The Mixy sounded terrific; hopefully this will take it a step further.
I've emailed a contact at AETA regarding the issue of SDHC SDSX and supported cards...will post if/when I get a reply.
^Thanks for the update!
I dug through my stack of storage cards and found this 64gb Samsung Pro SDXCcard that I had formatted but that I had never used. I purchased it in 2017. It formatted as a 32gb card. That is why I never used it in the 4MinX.
^Thanks for the update!
I dug through my stack of storage cards and found this 64gb Samsung Pro SDXCcard that I had formatted but that I had never used. I purchased it in 2017. It formatted as a 32gb card. That is why I never used it in the 4MinX.
Be very very careful about buying fakes, that is probably what happened.