Topic: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track - announced at NAMM

[willndmb]

thanks philip

[headroom]

There are some other ways to do SMTP Timecode sync trade off is you lose one chanel audio

http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/26/fcp-auxtc-reader

http://www.groupsrv.com/movie/about109337-0.html

http://help.lockergnome.com/movies/Audio-Microtrack-24-96-time-code-level-issue--ftopict76681.html

http://www.markertek.com/Video-Equipment/Video-Processors/Time-Code-Equipment/TIMETOOL-L.xhtml

[Chuck]

After reading the DR-680 manual and reading the various posts in this thread a few times, I have some questions:

- Can you turn off recording on some channels so you don't have to use up SDHC card space by recording 6 channels when for example you only want to record 4?

- Can you adjust stereo pair levels together, or do you have to adjust each mono input separately? MattH said it's easier to adjust levels than he anticipated.

- It looks like you get a "clip indicator" on top of each channel when levels get within 2dB of digital clipping. That's strange... I'd rather know when levels actually are clipping... Does that indicator go away at some time interval so that it resets? Something like pushing the Peak Reset button on a V3...

- What actually happens when the external power is disconnected? Do you really lose the whole recording and all settings? It also looks like the back-light will always be on when powering this with an external source too? What is the actual external voltage threshold before the deck shuts down?

- Does the 'Limiter" actually lower the gain level of the channel so it won't clip anymore, or does it act like a real limiter and just stop that channel from clipping by aggressively compressing the level at a specific threshold before it clips?

- I see there are no markings or a dB scale along side of the meters, to gage what your actual levels are? That's the biggest problem I see with this box so far. I guess an external calibrated meter fed by the line outs might be needed.

[philper]

There are some other ways to do SMTP Timecode sync trade off is you lose one chanel audio

http://www.videotoolshed.com/product/26/fcp-auxtc-reader

http://www.groupsrv.com/movie/about109337-0.html

http://help.lockergnome.com/movies/Audio-Microtrack-24-96-time-code-level-issue--ftopict76681.html

http://www.markertek.com/Video-Equipment/Video-Processors/Time-Code-Equipment/TIMETOOL-L.xhtml

These work ok but are very non standard in the video business.  If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps.  What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.

Philip Perkins

[headroom]

These work ok but are very non standard in the video business.  If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps.  What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.

Philip Perkins
[/quote]

I do also video work I record with the Sony PCM 50. Send the Sound direct wireless to the Videocamera with the Emu Pipe Line. Works with 24 bit 48 Khz Anaolg or SPFIF IN OUT. And sometimes i have to do it manually but with the Waveform, its not a big job if dont have to many clips.

[nottingham]

Tried to UL to the archives for some reason it just won’t take it? Source mk4 > cmr > Tascam dr680.
Mic in > gain +5

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534209

[philper]

These work ok but are very non standard in the video business.  If you are handling the post yourself or are starting a big job where you can do tests to come up with a workflow then fine, but if you are doing a normal short-schedule job you can't count on using any of these methods--post wants to see BWFs with TC timestamps.  What I'm trying to decide is if not having TC at all (just the TOD time stamp) will be ok for shoots with newer cameras like the Canon 5D, where the TC is kind of irrelevant--it is much faster to sync the sound manually or w/ PluralEyes in Final Cut than use the TC reference, for many sorts of projects at least....I think.

Philip Perkins

I do also video work I record with the Sony PCM 50. Send the Sound direct wireless to the Videocamera with the Emu Pipe Line. Works with 24 bit 48 Khz Anaolg or SPFIF IN OUT. And sometimes i have to do it manually but with the Waveform, its not a big job if dont have to many clips.
[/quote]

One of my clients made a feature length doc that way (D50 and 5D) w/ manual sync and it worked out very well.  That's why I question the need for TC at all for audio except on very high-end projects.

Philip Perkins

[ajcourtney]

^^^like some of you other vid hounds, I've been following the progress of this thread with quite a bit of interest, particularly as a field recorder option to my 20U road rack multitrack kit.  I must say, though,  that TC does not sync your vid cam with outboard audio.  It simply gives you a common timebase, which is great for rough sync'ing lots of clips; but drift will likely still occur with extended shoots because both devices are operating off of separate clocks.  And that's something that PluralEyes cannot fix, as they correctly state in their disclaimer.

To ensure driftless audio, you need to genlock the cams to a master clock like the Brainstorm dcd-8 and wordclock the audio rig to the same master clock.

[headroom]

I would like to know how ist the display outside in the sun? Very reflective like the Edirol R-4 ? TNX

[Əkoostikal]

Tried to UL to the archives for some reason it just won’t take it? Source mk4 > cmr > Tascam dr680.
Mic in > gain +5

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=534209

Thanks!!  I have been wanting anticipating hearing that lineup.... They should make a good start to Wanee!

[nottingham]

- Can you turn off recording on some channels so you don't have to use up SDHC card space by recording 6 channels when for example you only want to record 4?

1. Yes, you can turn channels on and off as needed.

Can you adjust stereo pair levels together, or do you have to adjust each mono input separately? MattH said it's easier to adjust levels than he anticipated.

2. No, it does not appear you can do this.

- It looks like you get a "clip indicator" on top of each channel when levels get within 2dB of digital clipping. That's strange... I'd rather know when levels actually are clipping... Does that indicator go away at some time interval so that it resets? Something like pushing the Peak Reset button on a V3...

3. The meters are actually not very good IMO. I never record to hot anyway these days with 24 bit so it is not a big issue for me. No reset button, if your not paying attention you will not know it clipped.

- What actually happens when the external power is disconnected? Do you really lose the whole recording and all settings? It also looks like the back-light will always be on when powering this with an external source too? What is the actual external voltage threshold before the deck shuts down?

4. I'm not willing to give this a try yet.

Does the 'Limiter" actually lower the gain level of the channel so it won't clip anymore, or does it act like a real limiter and just stop that channel from clipping by aggressively compressing the level at a specific threshold before it clips?

5. I personally never use a limiter. Refer to #3

- I see there are no markings or a dB scale along side of the meters, to gage what your actual levels are? That's the biggest problem I see with this box so far. I guess an external calibrated meter fed by the line outs might be needed.

6. Refer to #3

[Chuck]

Great info. Thank you.
Mine is supposed to be here tomorrow.

I won't have much time to mess with it before I record my first show on Thursday.

[philper]

^^^like some of you other vid hounds, I've been following the progress of this thread with quite a bit of interest, particularly as a field recorder option to my 20U road rack multitrack kit.  I must say, though,  that TC does not sync your vid cam with outboard audio.  It simply gives you a common timebase, which is great for rough sync'ing lots of clips; but drift will likely still occur with extended shoots because both devices are operating off of separate clocks.  And that's something that PluralEyes cannot fix, as they correctly state in their disclaimer.

To ensure driftless audio, you need to genlock the cams to a master clock like the Brainstorm dcd-8 and wordclock the audio rig to the same master clock.

TC is not a time base or clock unless your device can derive its clock from it (as the HDP2 can), and then it is.   But many video cameras in common use now do not have either external sync or external TC inputs, but producers want to use them anyhow.  So we try to make the audio clock as stable as we can, and then make sure there is a reference audio track on as many of the cameras as we can manage (in a multicam concert shoot, for instance).  The cameras frame rate will drift somewhat, but not as much as you might think--we have successfully done 2 hour+ sets with as many as 9 non-synced cameras.  PluralEyes or a manual sync will get the sync close, then the sync will have to be tweaked a bit, maybe, when the project is cut.  In the old days big shoots like this were always done with genlocked cameras and common TC, but we are finding that with file based workflows and the capabilities of current editors like FCP 7 that that is MUCH less of an issue in post for many kinds of shoots.  In these cases the important factors are stability of clock (do the best you can, have as few things drifting free as possible, ie lockdown the audio), a good sync mark (especially good if it can have audio on both the camera and the sound recorder: that's an easier sync that sound to picture), and as few camera starts as possible--let it roll.  Fewer sync points=happier editors. 

Philip Perkins

[Ozpeter]

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/40228?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 makes interesting reading about the DR-680's inner workings.

[Chuck]

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturerecordists/messages/40228?threaded=1&m=e&var=1&tidx=1 makes interesting reading about the DR-680's inner workings.

Great stuff from the nature recordists!

Here is a link to the avisoft.com test results done by Raimund Specht:
http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm

I see this as very good news. Seemingly confirming that the pre-amps are more along the lines of the HD-P2 than the rest of the Tascam DR line.