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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Rob D. on October 30, 2003, 02:28:32 PM
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Alright then,
I finally found a 4' aluminum rod (at Home Depot!) that will fit thru the Sabra stand mount and the Sabra mic mounts clip onto that. So what I now have is a 4' spread on one mount but haven't actually used it yet. I use MBHO603 with the KA200 cards but last Spring I purchased a used pair of Omni (KA100LK) that I've yet to use in the field! I've never seen this mount setup before and am curious if 4' or 3' is the best spread to use?
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I've spaced omni's as close as 12 inches with decent results (when close to the sound source, ie. on stage). A 4' spread should work well, even from a distance, but I'd try to stay close, maybe 30 feet or less. A close spacing far from the source will give you a "small" sounding source, the music will sound like its all coming from a distant point in the middle of the image, the crowd will fill the rest of the image and should have a decent L/R separation. Experiment with different spacings and please report back!
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It is definitely venue specific. If it is a large outdoor festival type venue, you can get away with the 20' spacing. If it's small you can do what Craig did and stay close. Generally, 3-7 feet spread will get you nice results. You have to watch out about spacing it too far or you will get the hole in the middle effect: Only left and right characteristics of the recording, no middle.
Other than that, omni records can turn out great or turn out poor. They are not as forgiving as normal directional mics capsules.
One interesting omni note: the time difference of the arriving signal can make a bigger difference than you would think, also compared to typical directional capsules. One venue (Mishawaka) has a stage slightly angled. The left mic was recieving the signal a few miliseconds earlier than the right. You wouldn't notice this unless you can see the waveforms on a computer software program. So, by lining up the 2 channels, the recording cleared up and a lot more definition was produced.
It's amazing what the human brain can process and understand!!
Rob-you should be ok with your 4' bar.
Good luck
Phil
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Thanks for all the solid advice guys. I'd +T all y'all if I could!
I'm thinking of using the omni setup for Dave Alvin this Saturday at a nice sounding 300 capacity auditorium (Campus Theatre - Seattle) and will report back. Thanks again!
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I recorded The Dead this summer at Red Rocks with Octava MC012 omni's spaced 27 inches in one stand in the section. I angled them to the outside of the stacks. I liked this recording much better than my NOS recordings, in the same run, with cardioids.
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if you want a "stereo image" with omnis you need either some baffling or a huge spread, from what i've read
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I've got two shows where I utilized the Healy Method... a Bela Fleck and Flecktones show and a Phish show... lmk if you're intersted!
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if you want a "stereo image" with omnis you need either some baffling or a huge spread, from what i've read
My omni recording did have a good "stereo image." Not as defined as with cardioids, but more like what you hear at the show. I'm quite interested in trying some sort of baffling next. Maybe a winter project?
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Thanks Mike.
I had read that thread a while back and didn't remember that is was you who posted it. When I first moved to Colorado I met Mike Grace when he was working for Jeff Rowland in the 1980's. He helped me design the pre-amp I use now. Anyway... I saw him the night I was taping The Dead at Red Rocks using the 27" spaced omni's. He was always a big advocate for using spaced omnis. I have a great Spectrum, PA 1980something recording he made of the Grateful Dead with spaced Schoeps. This summer, he told me again that omnis always sounded best to him for concert taping. I have to agree. Unfortunately it's not always practical, but I use my omni's whenever I can. I'm more determined now to build a baffle and start using it.
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omni's indoors.... anyone have experiences or thoughts?
location will be the most important factor... any other thoughts?
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omni's indoors.... anyone have experiences or thoughts?
location will be the most important factor... any other thoughts?
Location is key. I personally don't like omni's as my only mic when running tape from the "section". That tends to be a bit too far away to pull in great tapes with only omnis. Closer in, I don't mind Omni's, but by themselves it really is key to find the right location.
Wayne
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Alright then,
I finally found a 4' aluminum rod (at Home Depot!) that will fit thru the Sabra stand mount and the Sabra mic mounts clip onto that. So what I now have is a 4' spread on one mount but haven't actually used it yet. I use MBHO603 with the KA200 cards but last Spring I purchased a used pair of Omni (KA100LK) that I've yet to use in the field! I've never seen this mount setup before and am curious if 4' or 3' is the best spread to use?
I ran a 4' omni spread with my Oktava's for Railroad Earth, it is on the etree archive if you are interested http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=3283 I used a hockey stick, cut down & attached to my stand ...
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moke...quick question.
why are you using the pop-screens indoors?
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screens indoors in my experience dont do much to the sound of the mic
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if you want a "stereo image" with omnis you need either some baffling or a huge spread, from what i've read
My omni recording did have a good "stereo image." Not as defined as with cardioids, but more like what you hear at the show. I'm quite interested in trying some sort of baffling next. Maybe a winter project?
maybe something to look into, calico
http://www.sonicstudios.com/liteguy.htm
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Here is how I mount my DPA 4071s.
I bought two 3' telecoping antenna at RS, and taped them together end to end. I then soldered alligator clips on each end. I mount that inside of a single SABRA shock mount.
With this, I can achive A-B spacing on a perfect horizontal plane anwhere up to 5' (pictured).
I run this way when I can be DFC. I will run HRTF on my head when I cant (as I can always walk to the sweet spot and camp out there invisibly). Either way works very well, but I like the spacing best. I cant believe the results iv'e pulled with this. I expected boom and echo, i've recieved realistic and balanced.
Cool!
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the spaced omnis
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if you want a "stereo image" with omnis you need either some baffling or a huge spread, from what i've read
My omni recording did have a good "stereo image." Not as defined as with cardioids, but more like what you hear at the show. I'm quite interested in trying some sort of baffling next. Maybe a winter project?
maybe something to look into, calico
http://www.sonicstudios.com/liteguy.htm
For $600 not anytime too soon.
::)
I'll build my own. I'm not sold on the "human head" design. Too bulky I think. Ideally I'd like a collapsable baffle.
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if you want a "stereo image" with omnis you need either some baffling or a huge spread, from what i've read
My omni recording did have a good "stereo image." Not as defined as with cardioids, but more like what you hear at the show. I'm quite interested in trying some sort of baffling next. Maybe a winter project?
maybe something to look into, calico
http://www.sonicstudios.com/liteguy.htm
For $600 not anytime too soon.
::)
I'll build my own. I'm not sold on the "human head" design. Too bulky I think. Ideally I'd like a collapsable baffle.
oooops! didn't even see the price there, that is a lot for a stuffed piece of canvas. Just throwing ideas out there. I really liked mics sennheiser dummyhead, that was sweeet
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I used a soft sided cooler for a baffle with my DPA 4060s, the price was right and I can store gear in it. With a little duct tape you could get that on a stand pretty easy I bet.
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how does that sound argle?
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It sounds really good to me, but my ears are not as discerning as others and it may not be up to everybody else's standards or tastes, but I really like it. I've only tried it this way once so far because I grew tired of not being able to talk or dance when I wear the mics on my head. I put the whole contraption up on the stage and there are a few odd noises from all the damn balloons some one let loose on Halloween and some girl kept wacking it with her magic wand all night for some strange reason. But I find the crowd noise to be less of an issue because the mics are closer to the monitors than way in the back. I really prefer the sound and the scene up in the front to the section, and I figure there's a ton of tapes being made back there anyways so I have much more fun taping without a stand to worry about. My other mics are AKG 480s and I have to say I much prefer the sound of omnis so my next investment for taping will probably be omni caps for my AKGs if I can find them, because I bought the DPAs for stealth purposes, but I now use them for everything I tape and my poor AKGs are getting lonely. If I can get them I'll be taping them to the outside of the cooler like the DPAs, but I'd really like to rig up some kind of roll cage to keep shit from wacking them.
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hey, do you think I would be able to get a copy of the recording when you used the cooler baffle?
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i don't do much non-stealth stuff or else I would invest in a stand setup. Good luck on the roll cage tho ;)
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Sure thing, my email is arglebargle420@hotmail.com, send me your addy and let me know if you want audio or FLAC. There is some strange anomoly described in http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=8795 that I have not been able to find an answer to. I can see it but I can't hear it in the recording, and I can't think of a single explanation except for being close to the monitors or the floor.