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1990s taper finally upgrading gear - a few questions about mics, power, stealth
chiefscribe:
Hi from Rip Van Winkle checking in after a few decades. I used to record on cassette and DAT in the 90s with lower-cost earpiece mics, Sonic Studios, powered with an AA-battery cable.
Most of my old stuff still works, but now that I am older and wiser and have a little more money than I did when I was a student, I am trying to bring my gear into the new millennium and could use advice.
I like to record live music ranging from quieter jazz and folk to rock, mostly in venues of 1500-3000 people, and also nature sounds. For now the priority is stealth recording of music. Bonus points for gear that would do well with nature sounds as well, though I am prepared to have to get different mic capsules later for nature sounds.
Hoping to have the gear by the end of this month for use on Labor Day weekend.
Re: budget, funds are not unlimited but I'd rather know what the best/right options are and then look for cost savings on those items later if needed. For now, assume that all options are on the table and I'll figure out financing later.
I have liked the sound of many mics, but am leaning toward either
* Schoeps Colette with MK4 or MK41 (or is Schoeps CCM4 worth considering - ? I have assumed it is better to get the modular system but am open to being persuaded otherwise)or
* DPAs if I determine that the Schoeps are too difficult to use in stealth situations.or
* possibly getting both if the DPAs are much easier to stealth but the Schoeps could work for portable semi-stealth situations where taping is not prohibited but I want to be subtle.
My questions are
* how much more difficult is it to stealth-record with Schoeps vs. DPAs? is the Schoeps CCM4 integrated /non-modular mic worth considering for stealth advantages? overall I would prefer the modular system but only if it's practical for stealth.&
* if I go with Schoeps modular Colette system, I keep changing my mind about MK4s vs. MK41s. In a quiet situation, I'd probably like the MK4s better, but since I am not tall enough to keep mics above chatty people, I am questioning whether MK41s would be a smarter choice to avoid noise - ? &
* whether I go with the MK4s or MK41s, or the DPAs, or both, what else do I need for mic power / gain / ADC between that and the recorder? I have seen mentions of NBobs (now discontinued) and other things but don't know exactly what they are or where and how to get them, despite reading and searching this site for quite a while. I have zero clue about this part of the equation and need the most basic 101-level lesson.
&
* I do already own a Roland R-05, which has a stereo mini input. It works fine and I am in no particular hurry to get rid of it, but I am open to upgrading the recorder if it makes sense to do so. I think I have only used it with the internal mics - possibly with the old Sonic Studios mics once. Needless to say I would like to get better mics in use ASAP. I like how easy the R-05 is to fit in a pocket and disguise as a cell phone, but if there's another recorder that can be used for stealth and would be much better for my needs, I'm all ears. Keep using the R-05 or get something better?
Stealth advice also welcome.
I don't have a K@ng0l (yet) and only have experience with the 1990s eyeglass-mounted mics for stealth, so if anyone wants to send me a message about headgear stealth methods, I'd appreciate it. I can imagine the basic principle, but if there are modifications or tools that are helpful, or specific models of hats, I'd love to know. Even better if any methods can be used with a baseball cap or another more generic hat.
I did almost get kicked out of a Jerry Garcia Band show one time because I was close to the rail with my earpiece microphones stuck on the logo of my baseball hat with a plastic cone, and one time got asked about the DAT deck in my pants and had to go in a different door, but otherwise have always succeeded in getting my gear in and using it with no security issues.
I am pretty short, so putting mics on shoulders would probably result in too much muffling of the sound.
Any help in sorting out what to buy would be very much appreciated. Would love to get gear ordered ASAP so I don't have to go to yet another show on Labor Day weekend with no good mics.
Scooter123:
I was taping since 1970 and went through your exact conundrum a few years ago. I picked Schoeps, but easily could have gone for Neumann KM 180 or something similar. But here is how I solved the problem.
First, I downloaded about 50 really good sounding shows off torrent sites or trades. I actually think it was 100 to make things nice and round. I made a spread sheet.
Second, I looked at the microphones and rigs used in my favorite shows. For me, about 40% of the best sounding shows were either Neumann or Schoeps each. However, AKG had a decent showing and surprisingly, stupid Coresound and Church mikes made up a small minority.
Third, I then had conversations with actual tapers over the phone as to why they liked Schoeps and Neuman. By the way, to your ears, the 40% Schoeps or 40% Neumann could be something else--this is a process, not a conclusion. You might pick AKG or Sennheiser. A fellow taper, Josephine, let me borrow her rig for a couple shows, one in an arena and one in a local club, so I could get real results. The type of mike you pick will depend on the type of shows you will tape. Small jazz clubs? A DPA Omni would be nice for close in work. Large arena shows in front of the stacks? A DPA would also work well. Arenas in the center surrounded by crowds? Go with a card or super card. That's why I made my decision on 100 shows, of various types and wanted the best overall microphone for those types of shows.
Finally, I made my decision based on the gear and not the sound. I actually liked the sound of Neumanns better than Schoeps (clearer more accurate), but that could be handled using EQ in post. But Schoeps won the contest because there is a whole host of Schoeps tapers out there with nearly identical gear that can be borrowed etc. Also consider Nick--the man is a genius and developed two preamps especially made for Schoeps--the NBox and the Baby NBox. It makes the Schoeps rig a little smaller and easier to stealth.
The Schoeps taping crowd has been around since the 1990s using RBox (a predecessor to the NBox) and is a brotherhood of tapers. I have three NBoxes and two sets of Schoeps mikes, they are a lifetime investment. While you may be able to pull decent tapes with other microphones, the odds of pulling a good tape in a bad location is better with Schoeps or Neumanns.
Oh, I should add-- the recorder you use is irrelevant. Anything small with decent battery life is fine. All it does is store 1s and 0s, and we call them bit boxes. A regular around here uses a 20 year old Tascam DR2d which is obsolete by all measurements, but fits the bill, he likes the interface, and it works for him. The DR2d also allows the recording of a second source at the same time, like an ALD or IEM with the necessity of a time synch. I use a ten year old Sony M10 for VU Meters and battery life.
Have fun making your decision.
jbell:
Check in with Scheopsnbox he can build you actives for Microtech Gefell, Schoeps, Neumann, or AKG caps. You would save some cash over buying a set of ccm4's. If you only stealth tape you might want to look into an Nbox or baby Nbox.
heathen:
If you're talking about the lavalier size DPAs (4060 or 4061, for example), there's literally nothing easier to stealth with. Incredible mics.
morst:
--- Quote from: Scooter123 on August 09, 2021, 12:35:11 PM ---While you may be able to pull decent tapes with other microphones, the odds of pulling a good tape in a bad location is better with Schoeps or Neumanns.
--- End quote ---
One reason for this might be that Schoeps and Neumanns are very well made (as are DPA) and have excellent and consistent off-axis response.
This even response allows for more flexibility of placement, and can still yield excellent results in compromised locations such as off center, or too far back, in my experience.
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