Topic: [PT 2] M-Audio MicroTrack 2496 - *actual* real-life experiences thread

[jhirte]

I'm meaning when adjusting trim to fine tune the output to the MT - I was curious what it would do if it got to hot a signal...

That's just it - nothing you do on the V3 will send "too hot a signal" to the MT2496 when running V3 digi-out > MT.  All the "hotness" is handled by the V3's ADC.  When running digi-in, the MT simply receives and stores the 0s and 1s, nothing more.  If the waveform that those 0s and 1s represent is clipped during the analog to digital conversion within the V3, the MT doesn't care - all it's doing is writing the digital stream to media.  To see how the MT sounds when pushed with too hot a signal requires running analog-in to the MT.

I'm not explaining myself right..

[Brian Skalinder]

I'm not explaining myself right..

Or maybe I'm just not "getting" it.  Willing to try again?  What exactly about the MT2496 were you trying to test by adjusting the gain on the V3?  (Or is the question itself incorrect given what you were trying to accomplish?)

[jhirte]

I'm not explaining myself right..

Or maybe I'm just not "getting" it.  Willing to try again?  What exactly about the MT2496 were you trying to test by adjusting the gain on the V3?  (Or is the question itself incorrect given what you were trying to accomplish?)

ack. I dont think I can explain what I mean..
like if was slamming 0db on V3, if that would show up as 0db on the wav as recorded by the MT... vs being someting under, say like -1 for instance...this make sense? I still dont think I am explaining exactly right.. am wayyyyy tired from last night...

[jhirte]

also- was trying to see if the meters/levels on the MT are representing whats coming in correctly - like I said in the previous post - they were all over the place at times...

[Brian]

I'm not explaining myself right..

Or maybe I'm just not "getting" it.  Willing to try again?  What exactly about the MT2496 were you trying to test by adjusting the gain on the V3?  (Or is the question itself incorrect given what you were trying to accomplish?)

ack. I dont think I can explain what I mean..
like if was slamming 0db on V3, if that would show up as 0db on the wav as recorded by the MT... vs being someting under, say like -1 for instance...this make sense? I still dont think I am explaining exactly right.. am wayyyyy tired from last night...

this really brings up the whole "digital over" debate.  there is no standard to what a "0" means in the digital realm. If I'm not mistaken you must have at least 3 samples over 0 for it to be considered a "clip" or "over" It's very gear dependent when exactly those samples go over. i remember when i was running v3>m1, my m1 would go over but the V3's red peak light was not on.

[jhirte]

I'm not explaining myself right..

Or maybe I'm just not "getting" it.  Willing to try again?  What exactly about the MT2496 were you trying to test by adjusting the gain on the V3?  (Or is the question itself incorrect given what you were trying to accomplish?)

ack. I dont think I can explain what I mean..
like if was slamming 0db on V3, if that would show up as 0db on the wav as recorded by the MT... vs being someting under, say like -1 for instance...this make sense? I still dont think I am explaining exactly right.. am wayyyyy tired from last night...

this really brings up the whole "digital over" debate.  there is no standard to what a "0" means in the digital realm. If I'm not mistaken you must have at least 3 samples over 0 for it to be considered a "clip" or "over" It's very gear dependent when exactly those samples go over. i remember when i was running v3>m1, my m1 would go over but the V3's red peak light was not on.

This is where I was going... I could peak out on the v3, but my P1 wouldn't show it was over ... was curious if this was the same as on the MT.
sorry couldn't explain this. I must be retarded from lack of sleep.   

[Brian Skalinder]

this really brings up the whole "digital over" debate.  there is no standard to what a "0" means in the digital realm. If I'm not mistaken you must have at least 3 samples over 0 for it to be considered a "clip" or "over" It's very gear dependent when exactly those samples go over. i remember when i was running v3>m1, my m1 would go over but the V3's red peak light was not on.

I think the situation about which you write, and encountered with your V3 and M1, is really two issues:  lack of a standard for when to trigger the "0" indicator on meters, and variable precision / margin of error across different machines.  Defining when to trigger the "0" indicator depends on the implementation of the meter - did the manufacturer design it to light at one sample, 3 consecutive samples, or something else entirely.  However, precision comes into play even if all manufacturers agreed to display the "0" indicator upon a single 0 dBFS sample.  There are different ways to implement metering (e.g. analog or digital realm) and even the same implementation may produce different results across different machines due to variability in the components selected to do the job.

[Brian]

this really brings up the whole "digital over" debate.  there is no standard to what a "0" means in the digital realm. If I'm not mistaken you must have at least 3 samples over 0 for it to be considered a "clip" or "over" It's very gear dependent when exactly those samples go over. i remember when i was running v3>m1, my m1 would go over but the V3's red peak light was not on.

I think the situation about which you write, and encountered with your V3 and M1, is really two issues:  lack of a standard for when to trigger the "0" indicator on meters, and variable precision / margin of error across different machines.  Defining when to trigger the "0" indicator depends on the implementation of the meter - did the manufacturer design it to light at one sample, 3 consecutive samples, or something else entirely.  However, precision comes into play even if all manufacturers agreed to display the "0" indicator upon a single 0 dBFS sample.  There are different ways to implement metering (e.g. analog or digital realm) and even the same implementation may produce different results across different machines due to variability in the components selected to do the job.

yep.  pretty much what i said, just with all the details

[it-goes-to-eleven]

In my testing, the MT 'clip' light comes on at -1 dB.  Given the *tremendous* flakiness we've seen from the MT meters, I'd be looking mostly at that.  Also, it wasn't variable intensity. Just on or off.

A device like the MT should be able to keep a total count of overs.  That'd be really handy.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Here's a quick comp of the microtrack from last night:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51789.0

[tightglobes]

ok.  i have one more question then i'm letting this go (can't seem to get any answers & my cheap price offer is about to expire for the microtrack).  core-sound says that this device does not record a true 24 bit recording thru analog inputs.  i will be using this for sound board taping thru the 1/4" trs inputs set to line-input (no mic preamp - don't care about the mic preamps - i won't use them).  has anybody confirmed whether or not the microtracker records a true 24 bit recording?

[Ed.]

it records 24bit via analog in and digital in.  len is full of shit.

[eric.B]

ok.  i have one more question then i'm letting this go (can't seem to get any answers & my cheap price offer is about to expire for the microtrack).  core-sound says that this device does not record a true 24 bit recording thru analog inputs.  i will be using this for sound board taping thru the 1/4" trs inputs set to line-input (no mic preamp - don't care about the mic preamps - i won't use them).  has anybody confirmed whether or not the microtracker records a true 24 bit recording?

have you read this thread and the other MT2496 threads on this forum?

[udovdh]

ok.  i have one more question then i'm letting this go (can't seem to get any answers & my cheap price offer is about to expire for the microtrack).  core-sound says that this device does not record a true 24 bit recording thru analog inputs.

What is 'true 24 bit' anyways?

BTW: Now that are current audio ADC's are '24 bit'someone has to explain me why in a low SNR environment like a 'rock' concert it is still useful to record 24 bits. The difference between an optimum quality ADC (120 dB SNR?) and a 'normal' one (100 dB?) is way down in the noise of the mic, let alone the environment?
I may be missing a few details, please point them out.

[udovdh]

There is an enormous amount of info on the advantages of 24 bit in the archives here and on the web. That poor horse just doesn't need to be beat again, at least not in this thread.

http://24bitfaq.org

Thanks! +T