Topic: [PT 2] M-Audio MicroTrack 2496 - *actual* real-life experiences thread

[ChrisV]

Have a stupid question perhaps.  But for anyone that is using a UA-5 with coax into the Microtracker....I've never done 24 bit with my UA-5 before and was wondering does the adv switch need to be on or off?   

I tried it with both on and off and the Microtracker apparently made both 24 bits when I transferred the recording to the computer both came up as 24 bit.   I am thinking something funky has happened though.   Do you set the bit-rate in the recorder, because I thought it was automatically detected?

[JasonSobel]

Have a stupid question perhaps.  But for anyone that is using a UA-5 with coax into the Microtracker....I've never done 24 bit with my UA-5 before and was wondering does the adv switch need to be on or off?   

I tried it with both on and off and the Microtracker apparently made both 24 bits when I transferred the recording to the computer both came up as 24 bit.   I am thinking something funky has happened though.   Do you set the bit-rate in the recorder, because I thought it was automatically detected?

on the MicroTrack, under "recording settings" after you choose S/PDIF input, you can choose 24 bit or 16 bit.  the sample rate is detected automatically.  you probably have the setting on 24 bit, so even when you sent it a 16 bit signal, it still recorded it as a 24 bit file (with 8 zeroes attached to the end of each sample).

on the UA-5, to send a 24 bit signal, the Adv switch has to be "on", I believe.

[desertsky]

A couple questions for anyone using their MT with DPA 4061's and MA6000 pre-amp....  I have an MA6000 on order from Cascade Media and should have it by late next week.  By then I should also have back the used pair of 4061's I bought off ebay, on their way to DPA right now to be refitted with microdot connectors.  My first question is regarding the proper setting of levels when using the 4061/MA6000 combo with the MT.  With the MA6000 having it's own L + R gain knobs, do I set the recording levels of the MT at their lowest settings, and only use the MA6000's gain knobs to adjust the levels up until I dont set off the MT clipping indicators?  And in what situations would I want to use the MA6000's low-pass filter?  Most of the shows I'll be recording will be rock with possibly heavy bass levels.  Thanks in advance.   I'm hoping I'll be able to try out my new stealth rig next weekend.

[pjdavep]

With the MA6000 having it's own L + R gain knobs, do I set the recording levels of the MT at their lowest settings, and only use the MA6000's gain knobs to adjust the levels up until I dont set off the MT clipping indicators? 

Yes.

And in what situations would I want to use the MA6000's low-pass filter?  Most of the shows I'll be recording will be rock with possibly heavy bass levels.  Thanks in advance.   I'm hoping I'll be able to try out my new stealth rig next weekend.

Hopefully never   The bass cut is pretty extreme, so unless your head is in a bass cabinet, I'd say leave it alone.  Try to get in the sweet spot of the venue where there will be less bass would be a better option IMO.

Good luck and have fun with the new gear!

Later,
   pjdavep

[F.O.Bean]

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

[OOK]

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

bean, i feel like ive said it before when the 722 came out and you were such a hater, but..... STFU!

the MT IS  "stable" in my use. i did 4 full shows in the last week with it without problem[/color]

People you don't get it!!!!!!!   Bean does and I do .........Why would a company release a product that isn't stable, thats the bottom line.   That doesn't make Bean or myself a hater, I, we look at the reality of it.  Our hobby isn't cheap, we all dump a lot of money into it and I expect something to work out of the box.        the dam thing doesn't record 24/96 on the digi input yet.........come on, the meters  appear unreliable. ect ect.  I hope like hell they work it all out because I will buy one, but not until the thing does as advertised.

Now if your Mt is stable thats great...but there certainly appears to be a lot of people who have unstable units, glitches, whatever you want to call it.  People can justify it anyway they want.  I just hope it doesn't take as long as the SD devices took to get stable.
Later OOK

[cmoorevt]

Not stable is the DAP1 when it first came out, or more recently the minime or the JB1.  Those devices wouldn't even produce clean recordings. Not stable would have me either a.) returning to dat or b.) sending this thing back to M-Audio.  Neither of those have happened.

The MT is stable and for the first generation of a product is performing quite well.  Despite some of the glitches and inconveniences, I have used it several times in the field and it has made a nice recording every time.  Perfect? Not yet.  Stable? Absolutely.

[F.O.Bean]

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

bean, i feel like ive said it before when the 722 came out and you were such a hater, but..... STFU!

the MT IS  "stable" in my use. i did 4 full shows in the last week with it without problem

IMO, the ONLY "issue" at this point is continuous recording which is really a "nice to have" feature more than anything and nothing that prevents the unit from being used to record live shows....keep in mind this continuous recording feature is not something that many audio devices/programs also have...in fact your beloved wavelab ONLY recently fixed their 2GB continous recording issues with release 5.0

sure it would be great to have even *longer* runtime, and it would be great if the MT could do P48 so it would be compatible with more gear, but as it is this thing works and i say hats off to m-audio for getting this thing out

as with any early hardware product there will be defective units (some people here have been unlucky enough to get some), and there will be hiccups (esp with "fringe" hardware that is not common in the market place: e.g. grey market cheaper CF cards)

i'm sure some more firmware will be forthcoming and make the MicroTrack even better, but as it stands its a supercool little box. There is NOTHING else in the price range or form factor (at any price) with comparable features on the market


boogie

oh, trust me, im not hating, just reading the MANY fuck-ups thats these have caused, i would love to get one, but until some bugs are fixed, these are un-useable for me FWIW

YMMV

chill out, nobody's hating on your new toy

[F.O.Bean]

i'm gonna go out on a limb here, but i'm guessing you and bean have ZERO experience with the creation/design/testing of "technology" driven products (either hardware or software)...if you did, you would understand EXACTLY why m-audio shipped the product when they did...i certainly hope you werent one of the people a short month ago complaining about how LONG it had taken m-audio to ship the microtrack in the first place ...i havent checked yet, but i'm betting that bean (the resident grinch complainer on this site) was probably on that bandwagon as well

obviously neither one of you are people who seem suited to being early adopters as imperfect behavior/conditions are part of it

=====

if you want "stability" and a full "tested" feature set, sit your ass down and wait

if you want to participate on this thread and help move this product forward, go get yourself a unit and start using it

======

the release notes for this product/and firmware clearly indicate the known issues, and there is additional information on the vendor support site

as far as SD taking a LONG time to get their product stable, that type of comment just demonstrates the complete lack of comprehension of people about the complexity of these products, the demands of the development/testing cycle, and the difficulty in keeping fickle fuckers like yourself happy

M-Audio and SD, as companies, are examples to me of companies that CARE and have made extreme efforts to fix problems...they are both extremely responsive and engaged with the customer....frankly i'm proud to be customers of each

go back to your cave troll


boogie

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

bean, i feel like ive said it before when the 722 came out and you were such a hater, but..... STFU!

the MT IS  "stable" in my use. i did 4 full shows in the last week with it without problem[/color]

People you don't get it!!!!!!!   Bean does and I do .........Why would a company release a product that isn't stable, thats the bottom line.   That doesn't make Bean or myself a hater, I, we look at the reality of it.  Our hobby isn't cheap, we all dump a lot of money into it and I expect something to work out of the box.        the dam thing doesn't record 24/96 on the digi input yet.........come on, the meters  appear unreliable. ect ect.  I hope like hell they work it all out because I will buy one, but not until the thing does as advertised.

Now if your Mt is stable thats great...but there certainly appears to be a lot of people who have unstable units, glitches, whatever you want to call it.  People can justify it anyway they want.  I just hope it doesn't take as long as the SD devices took to get stable.
Later OOK

I like to buy things that work, sorry for being so silly

until i find what fits my needs, i'll keep searching, this unit however, doesnt fit my needs right now, i just simply said i wish the bugs were fixed, calm down danielson

tell me, do you like being basically a guinea pig for these huge companies I would hate it, plain and simple

[udovdh]

OK, so it should format fast.
What format did it put on the card? FAT32, what cluster size?

Anyone knows how I can bring my card back in a same state? (4GB instead of 707)
Is there some software or trick?

I can add to myself that I did use StorageTools 1.9 on the iPAQ. On the PC I have no special tools yet.
Anyone can help me fix this CF problem? I need to turn a '707'GB card into it's own 4GB format.... 

[MattD]

tell me, do you like being basically a guinea pig for these huge companies I would hate it, plain and simple

Being a tester (official or not) is rewarding because you actually have some say in how the product could ultimately work. People wanted to lock out all buttons on the 722/744t, which wasn't in the initial firmware release. SD introduced this feature. There are other examples of things that weren't in the original implementation, but have or will be added thanks to user feedback. The boxes are now pretty stable, so they're actually taking time to consider non-essential feature requests (like more metering resolution in the uppermost bits, linking all stereo controls when in linked mode and maybe adding a clip hold/reset feature).

I am happier with my purchase because I feel like I am getting a box that does closer and closer to exactly what I want. The "cost" has been low, too - out of some 15 or so shows I've done with it, I've only had one problem that caused me to lose about two minutes of audio (box froze when I started it for the 2nd set). That was attributed to bad firmware and subsequently fixed pretty quickly.

I've been a "tester" for another product whose implementation wasn't as smooth (Metric Halo MIO and ULN-2). They took forever to get the clocking bugs out of their digital input and I also had issues with recording to my laptop sometimes. The key for both of these companies is that they put their developers directly in touch with the end users. It really goes outside of the corporate mold and is a very positive experience.

Metric Halo's lead guy still answers questions at all hours - he posted an answer to the mailing list around midnight tonight, in fact.

[F.O.Bean]

great points, matt +T

[Brian Skalinder]

OOK and Bean - glad to hear you're in tune enough with your own wishes to know this isn't the device for you.  Let those of us for whom it does the trick enjoy the gear without the constant slagging of its problems from those who've never even used one.  Even with all its problems, it obviously works well enough for a good number of people, and that number will continue to rise.

i'm gonna go out on a limb here....
[snip]
frankly i'm proud to be customers of each

The voice of reason - well stated, Boogie.  Some people just like to bitch.  And as you so aptly pointed out, some people are not well suited for early adoption of new technology.  I suspect we'll have the same discussion any time a new piece of gear hits the market that's applicable to our purposes.  I didn't jump on the MT2496 right away, but I have now.  As far as I'm concerned, it's my JB3 of the CF recorder market - consumerish, but works very well for my purposes:  storing 0s and 1s in 24-bit.  Is it perfect?  No.  Is it suitable for my purposes?  You bet.  Some want the Perfect device when Good Enough will do.  I'll take Good Enough over a non-existent Perfect device any day.

Here's a hearty thanks to ALL the early adopters who have provided invaluable feedback so far.

And...gotta say...MattD makes some great comments about the ability, as an early adopter, to help shape the product as it matures.

but until some bugs are fixed, these are un-useable for me FWIW

I'm curious...you have an external ADC.  So ultimately, you need a recorder to store 0s and 1s.  No need for accurate meters.  No need for phantom power.  So far, the MT2496 has proven pretty stable at 24-bit digi-in.  What makes the MT2496 usable for you?

chill out, nobody's hating on your new toy

Perhaps hate is the wrong word, but to continually bash a product with no first-hand experience, becuase it doesn't work for you - while at the same time it works well for many others - doesn't provide a lot of value, and is not endearing to those for whom the device works.  Surprise!  I could go on and on about (just an example!) how I think your beloved AKG 480s simply suck, but that wouldn't serve much useful purpose, would it?  But they obviously do the trick for you, and that's what counts.  The MT2496 does the trick for many at the moment, and as noted above those numbers will grow.  Don't jump into the thread and piss in the proverbial sandbox and expect others to sit idly by.  I doubt you'd sit idly by if you were on the other side.

Why would a company release a product that isn't stable, thats the bottom line.

To beat the competition to the marketplace, for starters.  And to provide a Good Enough solution for a large number of people, at an affordable cost, knowing that they may utilize early adopters to help improve the product.

That doesn't make Bean or myself a hater, I, we look at the reality of it.

On the contrary, I think you look at what your ideal world should look like, and then grow disappointed when the real world doesn't match it.

I admire your idealism, OOK, around the desire for companies to release Perfect products.  But we live in the real world.  Boogie's right:  no first generation, highly complex, new technological device is *ever* Perfect.  Shoot, even 2nd, 3rd, 4th gen devices aren't ever perfect.  That's a fact, a reality.

And sometimes the best way to identify what's broken, determine prioritization for known issues, finalize the maturation path for a product, etc., is to engage the marketplace.  Internal testing groups and even beta programs will only take a company so far.

[Startstop]

I usually dont get involved in these debates (to busy soaking up all the great info here) but...we are all 'testers' for products in one way or another. Win XP being a great example. Its taken years for MS to tweak it, patch, fix, add, etc. It is still not perfect but its still the most stable OS ive used. I certainly would rather have a more polished product right out of the box but the reality is this rarely happens. We could all wait for patches before buying but as boogie pointed out, how can they fix it if they dont know its broke. To me, its all a risk vs reward type thing, and i love gamblin'.

[JasonSobel]

oh, trust me, im not hating, just reading the MANY fuck-ups thats these have caused, i would love to get one, but until some bugs are fixed, these are un-useable for me FWIW

YMMV

chill out, nobody's hating on your new toy

I also rarely get involved in arguments over this kind of stuff. but...

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

you know, people from M-Audio have posted on this board.  They obviously want to improve their product and they are actually soliciting our opinions.  That is a great thing.  calling them bastards isn't going to help anything.

ok, now lets get back to the topic at hand.  The MicroTrack.  Bean - you say it's un-usable for you.  why?  what do you need?  we are both just looking for a recorder to take a 24 bit signal from the V3, right?  or are you expecting more from a recorder?

here are my thoughts -

(1) I would like to have 24 bit, 96 kHz recording via the S/PDIF input.  This is something that can easily be added with firmware.  In all honesty, until the price of 8GB CF cards come down, I wasn't going to be running 24/96 anyway.  on a 4GB CF card, I can get 4 hours of 24/48.   that's enough time for just about every show I do.

(2) a work-around for the 2 gig limit.  This is my biggest concern right now, but M-Audio says that they'll add an auto-save and auto-start of a new file, all seamless.  at 24/48, 2 gigs is about 2 hours.  most sets that I record are under 2 hours anyway.  Club d'Elf (whom I regularly record), however, routinely plays sets longer than 2 hours.  This is currently an issue for me, but it'll be an even bigger issue when I'm running at 24/96.

(3) meters.  Yes, it would be "nice" to have better meters on the unit, and it seems like M-Audio is planning to improve them.  but frankly, I don't care about meters on the unit, because the level meters on the V3 are excellent.  the file continues to record properly, even though the level display is inconsistent.

(4) general stability.  with the new firmware (v1.1.5-BETA), I have not had this freeze on me.  seems quite stable now, much better than the original firmware.

(5) phantom power.  a lot of people are complaining about this, mostly people who want to stealth with it.  I don't care at all about the analog inputs, nor do I care about phantom power from the unit.  For my needs, it works great.

so, to summarize, and I sort of feel like I'm beating a dead horse here...
is the unit perfect?  no.  can it be improved upon?  yes.  and M-Audio seems intent on improving the product.  However, in the meantime, it's working great for me, and after another show or two with it, I'll likely leave the D8 at home.

I'm curious, please explain why the unit won't work for what you need?