Topic: [PT 2] M-Audio MicroTrack 2496 - *actual* real-life experiences thread

[John Kelly]

I usually dont get involved in these debates (to busy soaking up all the great info here) but...we are all 'testers' for products in one way or another. Win XP being a great example. Its taken years for MS to tweak it, patch, fix, add, etc. It is still not perfect but its still the most stable OS ive used. I certainly would rather have a more polished product right out of the box but the reality is this rarely happens. We could all wait for patches before buying but as boogie pointed out, how can they fix it if they dont know its broke. To me, its all a risk vs reward type thing, and i love gamblin'.

It's the most stable OS you've used because you haven't used Mac OS X.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

i'm guessing you and bean have ZERO experience with the creation/design/testing of "technology" driven products (either hardware or software)...if you did, you would understand EXACTLY why m-audio shipped the product when they did...

I have that experience.. But I disagree.  The number of bugs here is absurd. They aren't subtle or obscure. They're obvious within seconds of using each feature.  I could see m-audio having thousands of units already in boxes, with no cost effective way to update them. It would have been fine to ship'em once a firmware version that fixed most bugs was available. But most bugs aren't fixed yet.

How many bugs did the R-1 have when released?  Not so many, from what I understand. Does it serve any useful purpose to dwell on it? Nah.

I agree that the repeated posts with content-free bitching (esp by people who don't even own one!) are useless, especially in a real-life-exp thread. Posting stuff like "I'm not buying one until they get these issues fixed!".. Well, yeah.. Yep. uh-huh.. We kinda figured that - some people will wait and some people will jump on...  Obviously, only people who have kicked down the cash should get to bitch and vent about the microtack 

I've used AT853 mics extensively. While I've heard some really nice tapes from them, I hope to never use them again.  Yet, I don't jump into people's threads and say that because it serves no purpose.  No good can come of it (especially if I tear out a 4061 cable and need to borrow a pair..)

Owning both devices, I think putting SD/722/744 in the same sentence as 'microtrack/m-audio' is absurd on so many levels.  The devices aren't comparable and never will be.  The support isn't comparable.  The attention to detail isn't comparable.

we are all 'testers' for products in one way or another. Win XP being a great example. ....   It is still not perfect but its still the most stable OS ive used.

What is this 'we' stuff?  XP is just a turd with frosting.  No matter how much frosting (and it is very bad frosting), it will always be a turd.  Bringing XP into a discussion like this is a lot like making a comparison to Nazi's.  Oh wait.. shit.



Getting back to the 'real life' nature of this thread.. What we need at this point is a decent ts.com MT FAQ, even if it is very limited.  A lot of folks are still getting these things and there's just no way they can dive into these clogged threads to learn what they need to know. I hate to read about people stopping a recording at a show only because they're freaked out by the meters (a well known problem), etc..

[Startstop]

i'm guessing you and bean have ZERO experience with the creation/design/testing of "technology" driven products (either hardware or software)...if you did, you would understand EXACTLY why m-audio shipped the product when they did...

we are all 'testers' for products in one way or another. Win XP being a great example. ....   It is still not perfect but its still the most stable OS ive used.

What is this 'we' stuff?  XP is just a turd with frosting.  No matter how much frosting (and it is very bad frosting), it will always be a turd.  Bringing XP into a discussion like this is a lot like making a comparison to Nazi's.  Oh wait.. shit.



Getting back to the 'real life' nature of this thread.. What we need at this point is a decent ts.com MT FAQ, even if it is very limited.  A lot of folks are still getting these things and there's just no way they can dive into these clogged threads to learn what they need to know. I hate to read about people stopping a recording at a show only because they're freaked out by the meters (a well known problem), etc..

Lighten up francis!  It was just an example. Im sure the mac os is great. The statement was not made to start a flame war over OS's.

[musicsherlock]

Getting back to the 'real life' nature of this thread.. What we need at this point is a decent ts.com MT FAQ, even if it is very limited.  A lot of folks are still getting these things and there's just no way they can dive into these clogged threads to learn what they need to know. I hate to read about people stopping a recording at a show only because they're freaked out by the meters (a well known problem), etc..

FAQ would be great...how about a MT2496 baby board in Recording Gear?

+T for the Francis 'Psycho' Sawyer...

[silentmark]

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

bean, i feel like ive said it before when the 722 came out and you were such a hater, but..... STFU!

the MT IS  "stable" in my use. i did 4 full shows in the last week with it without problem

IMO, the ONLY "issue" at this point is continuous recording which is really a "nice to have" feature more than anything and nothing that prevents the unit from being used to record live shows....keep in mind this continuous recording feature is not something that many audio devices/programs also have...in fact your beloved wavelab ONLY recently fixed their 2GB continous recording issues with release 5.0

sure it would be great to have even *longer* runtime, and it would be great if the MT could do P48 so it would be compatible with more gear, but as it is this thing works and i say hats off to m-audio for getting this thing out

as with any early hardware product there will be defective units (some people here have been unlucky enough to get some), and there will be hiccups (esp with "fringe" hardware that is not common in the market place: e.g. grey market cheaper CF cards)

i'm sure some more firmware will be forthcoming and make the MicroTrack even better, but as it stands its a supercool little box. There is NOTHING else in the price range or form factor (at any price) with comparable features on the market


boogie

Bean just likes to pad his posting stats cause he needs to get to 20,000 before the end of the year 

Honestly some of these comments are pointless, I think I have read multiple times that you are waiting for the bugs to be worked out, great, so follow the threads and well, just wait ...

+T boogie ...

[Ed.]

i stopped reading all the mt threads last week because theres like 20 of them and its just people talking nonsense.  i see upon returning that it hasn't changed much.

[F.O.Bean]

OOK and Bean - glad to hear you're in tune enough with your own wishes to know this isn't the device for you.  Let those of us for whom it does the trick enjoy the gear without the constant slagging of its problems from those who've never even used one.  Even with all its problems, it obviously works well enough for a good number of people, and that number will continue to rise.

i'm gonna go out on a limb here....
[snip]
frankly i'm proud to be customers of each

The voice of reason - well stated, Boogie.  Some people just like to bitch.  And as you so aptly pointed out, some people are not well suited for early adoption of new technology.  I suspect we'll have the same discussion any time a new piece of gear hits the market that's applicable to our purposes.  I didn't jump on the MT2496 right away, but I have now.  As far as I'm concerned, it's my JB3 of the CF recorder market - consumerish, but works very well for my purposes:  storing 0s and 1s in 24-bit.  Is it perfect?  No.  Is it suitable for my purposes?  You bet.  Some want the Perfect device when Good Enough will do.  I'll take Good Enough over a non-existent Perfect device any day.

Here's a hearty thanks to ALL the early adopters who have provided invaluable feedback so far.

And...gotta say...MattD makes some great comments about the ability, as an early adopter, to help shape the product as it matures.

but until some bugs are fixed, these are un-useable for me FWIW

I'm curious...you have an external ADC.  So ultimately, you need a recorder to store 0s and 1s.  No need for accurate meters.  No need for phantom power.  So far, the MT2496 has proven pretty stable at 24-bit digi-in.  What makes the MT2496 usable for you?

chill out, nobody's hating on your new toy

Perhaps hate is the wrong word, but to continually bash a product with no first-hand experience, becuase it doesn't work for you - while at the same time it works well for many others - doesn't provide a lot of value, and is not endearing to those for whom the device works.  Surprise!  I could go on and on about (just an example!) how I think your beloved AKG 480s simply suck, but that wouldn't serve much useful purpose, would it?  But they obviously do the trick for you, and that's what counts.  The MT2496 does the trick for many at the moment, and as noted above those numbers will grow.  Don't jump into the thread and piss in the proverbial sandbox and expect others to sit idly by.  I doubt you'd sit idly by if you were on the other side.

Why would a company release a product that isn't stable, thats the bottom line.

To beat the competition to the marketplace, for starters.  And to provide a Good Enough solution for a large number of people, at an affordable cost, knowing that they may utilize early adopters to help improve the product.

That doesn't make Bean or myself a hater, I, we look at the reality of it.

On the contrary, I think you look at what your ideal world should look like, and then grow disappointed when the real world doesn't match it.

I admire your idealism, OOK, around the desire for companies to release Perfect products.  But we live in the real world.  Boogie's right:  no first generation, highly complex, new technological device is *ever* Perfect.  Shoot, even 2nd, 3rd, 4th gen devices aren't ever perfect.  That's a fact, a reality.

And sometimes the best way to identify what's broken, determine prioritization for known issues, finalize the maturation path for a product, etc., is to engage the marketplace.  Internal testing groups and even beta programs will only take a company so far.

goddamn, ya'll need to chill the fu&* out I forgot this is ts.com where opinions arent aloo0wed, sorry for making an OPINION mr skailnder, Errr, I mean ts.com police

sorry, im not allowed to talk about the MT's downsides on an MT thread

i think the MT is/Gona be VERY useful for 99% of us, damn, make 2 sentences and get RIPPED APART by thew ts.com police

After reading ALL OF THE mt threads, many folks have stated they are mostly stable, some say they arent stable at all, just making observations of what ive read

I'd MUCH rather spend the 350+200+100 for the MT+4GBCF+CF REader rather than 900+200+100 for the pmd-671

I simply stated I wish the newer Firmware would come along so I could go buy a damn MT

[F.O.Bean]

oh, trust me, im not hating, just reading the MANY fuck-ups thats these have caused, i would love to get one, but until some bugs are fixed, these are un-useable for me FWIW

YMMV

chill out, nobody's hating on your new toy

I also rarely get involved in arguments over this kind of stuff. but...

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon, i hope this thing becomes more stable

you know, people from M-Audio have posted on this board.  They obviously want to improve their product and they are actually soliciting our opinions.  That is a great thing.  calling them bastards isn't going to help anything.

ok, now lets get back to the topic at hand.  The MicroTrack.  Bean - you say it's un-usable for you.  why?  what do you need?  we are both just looking for a recorder to take a 24 bit signal from the V3, right?  or are you expecting more from a recorder?

here are my thoughts -

(1) I would like to have 24 bit, 96 kHz recording via the S/PDIF input.  This is something that can easily be added with firmware.  In all honesty, until the price of 8GB CF cards come down, I wasn't going to be running 24/96 anyway.  on a 4GB CF card, I can get 4 hours of 24/48.   that's enough time for just about every show I do.

(2) a work-around for the 2 gig limit.  This is my biggest concern right now, but M-Audio says that they'll add an auto-save and auto-start of a new file, all seamless.  at 24/48, 2 gigs is about 2 hours.  most sets that I record are under 2 hours anyway.  Club d'Elf (whom I regularly record), however, routinely plays sets longer than 2 hours.  This is currently an issue for me, but it'll be an even bigger issue when I'm running at 24/96.

(3) meters.  Yes, it would be "nice" to have better meters on the unit, and it seems like M-Audio is planning to improve them.  but frankly, I don't care about meters on the unit, because the level meters on the V3 are excellent.  the file continues to record properly, even though the level display is inconsistent.

(4) general stability.  with the new firmware (v1.1.5-BETA), I have not had this freeze on me.  seems quite stable now, much better than the original firmware.

(5) phantom power.  a lot of people are complaining about this, mostly people who want to stealth with it.  I don't care at all about the analog inputs, nor do I care about phantom power from the unit.  For my needs, it works great.

so, to summarize, and I sort of feel like I'm beating a dead horse here...
is the unit perfect?  no.  can it be improved upon?  yes.  and M-Audio seems intent on improving the product.  However, in the meantime, it's working great for me, and after another show or two with it, I'll likely leave the D8 at home.

I'm curious, please explain why the unit won't work for what you need?

I think you all look WAY too into what someone posts online, maybe i should have put a smilie at the end of the bastards sentence I simply wish a new firmware would come out w/ the seamless split, thats all I could care less abouit 24/96, just a waste of space IMO anyway

I am all for m-audio making this work, just getting impatient to get into 24-bit

i'm guessing you and bean have ZERO experience with the creation/design/testing of "technology" driven products (either hardware or software)...if you did, you would understand EXACTLY why m-audio shipped the product when they did...

I have that experience.. But I disagree.  The number of bugs here is absurd. They aren't subtle or obscure. They're obvious within seconds of using each feature.  I could see m-audio having thousands of units already in boxes, with no cost effective way to update them. It would have been fine to ship'em once a firmware version that fixed most bugs was available. But most bugs aren't fixed yet.

How many bugs did the R-1 have when released?  Not so many, from what I understand. Does it serve any useful purpose to dwell on it? Nah.

I agree that the repeated posts with content-free bitching (esp by people who don't even own one!) are useless, especially in a real-life-exp thread. Posting stuff like "I'm not buying one until they get these issues fixed!".. Well, yeah.. Yep. uh-huh.. We kinda figured that - some people will wait and some people will jump on...  Obviously, only people who have kicked down the cash should get to bitch and vent about the microtack 

I've used AT853 mics extensively. While I've heard some really nice tapes from them, I hope to never use them again.  Yet, I don't jump into people's threads and say that because it serves no purpose.  No good can come of it (especially if I tear out a 4061 cable and need to borrow a pair..)

Owning both devices, I think putting SD/722/744 in the same sentence as 'microtrack/m-audio' is absurd on so many levels.  The devices aren't comparable and never will be.  The support isn't comparable.  The attention to detail isn't comparable.

we are all 'testers' for products in one way or another. Win XP being a great example. ....   It is still not perfect but its still the most stable OS ive used.

What is this 'we' stuff?  XP is just a turd with frosting.  No matter how much frosting (and it is very bad frosting), it will always be a turd.  Bringing XP into a discussion like this is a lot like making a comparison to Nazi's.  Oh wait.. shit.



Getting back to the 'real life' nature of this thread.. What we need at this point is a decent ts.com MT FAQ, even if it is very limited.  A lot of folks are still getting these things and there's just no way they can dive into these clogged threads to learn what they need to know. I hate to read about people stopping a recording at a show only because they're freaked out by the meters (a well known problem), etc..

you are not aloowed to voice your opinions for this device in a thread about it, 5 yard penalty, 3rd down

[Brian Skalinder]

goddamn, ya'll need to chill the fu&* out

I'm very "chill".  You're the one dropping F-bombs.

I forgot this is ts.com where opinions arent aloo0wed, sorry for making an OPINION mr skailnder, Errr, I mean ts.com police

I never suggested you shouldn't make your opinions known.  Of course they're allowed.

sorry, im not allowed to talk about the MT's downsides on an MT thread

It isn't so much your opinions that grate, in this case, as much as the style of communication.

damn, make 2 sentences and get RIPPED APART by thew ts.com police

Ripped apart?  Surely, you jest.  Apparently, it's alright for you to spout your opinion, but if I state mine I'm all of a sudden the "TS cop", or I'm "ripping you apart".  How convenient for you, but ultimately how hypocritical - you're free to state your opinion, but if anyone disagrees with it, or calls you out on the way in which you communicate it, or takes issue with it in any way, then they're the bad guy. 

After reading ALL OF THE mt threads, many folks have stated they are mostly stable, some say they arent stable at all, just making observations of what ive read

Again, it's the way in which you make the observation.  Those interested in the MT2496 are following the thread - your saying things like ...

I hope those bastards release another firmware soon

...contribute nothing valuable to the discussion, and frankly it comes across as bitching and moaning.  And bitching and moaning sure gets tiresome - fast! - hence several people calling you out on what comes across as bitching and moaning (whether you intended it that way, or not).

[John R]

bean, no ripping here, but i must agree with the observations of the others.  it seems, to me, that when bugs or features that don't work properly are listed, you have jumped in with an "i can't wait..." or, "why would m-audio...?" type of statement.  we all know the shortcomings of the thing,  (some more of which i'll post below, if i can figure out a screenshot ), it's just tiring sometimes to read between the lean and the fat.  my .02


so, not wanting to report the erronious data(ie. aes in via spdif), i changed to spdif in from the v3. i did not have to shave down the rca plug.  the meters continued to flash solid black through the peak indicator, and this is what every recording i've opened looks like.  anyone else have something like this?

[Brian Skalinder]

so, not wanting to report the erronious data(ie. aes in via spdif), i changed to spdif in from the v3. i did not have to shave down the rca plug.  the meters continued to flash solid black through the peak indicator, and this is what every recording i've opened looks like.  anyone else have something like this?

I've experienced similar (not with the MT) due to a neg/ground short with my coax cable.  I'd triple-check the cable connections and the following home tests:

• swap with a known-good cable
• try a different coax S/PDIF source to rule out the V3 as the cause
• try a different recorder with the same V3/coax cable to rule out the MT

[John R]

so, not wanting to report the erronious data(ie. aes in via spdif), i changed to spdif in from the v3. i did not have to shave down the rca plug.  the meters continued to flash solid black through the peak indicator, and this is what every recording i've opened looks like.  anyone else have something like this?

I've experienced similar (not with the MT) due to a neg/ground short with my coax cable.  I'd triple-check the cable connections and the following home tests:

• swap with a known-good cable
• try a different coax S/PDIF source to rule out the V3 as the cause
• try a different recorder with the same V3/coax cable to rule out the MT

good idea brian, i'll give it a go.

[John R]

john,

that output looks troublingly regular....15s good, 30s bad, 15s good, ... on first glance looks like some sort of clock sync issue...i'm assuming you werent making any changes to anything during the record time

e.g...turning the light on, moving the unit, etc.

see if you can recreate it at home and maybe you can isolate the root cause...try different sample rates, bit depths, etc and see if its chronic to all conditions or just a few

its always possible that its a hardware/cable issue...esp if it occurs under all conditions

boogie

bean, no ripping here, but i must agree with the observations of the others.  it seems, to me, that when bugs or features that don't work properly are listed, you have jumped in with an "i can't wait..." or, "why would m-audio...?" type of statement.  we all know the shortcomings of the thing,  (some more of which i'll post below, if i can figure out a screenshot ), it's just tiring sometimes to read between the lean and the fat.  my .02


so, not wanting to report the erronious data(ie. aes in via spdif), i changed to spdif in from the v3. i did not have to shave down the rca plug.  the meters continued to flash solid black through the peak indicator, and this is what every recording i've opened looks like.  anyone else have something like this?

yeah i need to rule everything out to have a case(for what i don't know, replacement?)  btw, that's around a 75 minute file

[mmedley.]

so, not wanting to report the erronious data(ie. aes in via spdif), i changed to spdif in from the v3. i did not have to shave down the rca plug.  the meters continued to flash solid black through the peak indicator, and this is what every recording i've opened looks like.  anyone else have something like this?

Yeah, mine didn't look that drastic though (lengthwise). Is it the loudest most annoying white noise ever?

It happeded to me and I also submitted an official bug reporting it.

[Todd R]

i stopped reading all the mt threads last week because theres like 20 of them and its just people talking nonsense.  i see upon returning that it hasn't changed much.

QFT.  My experience exactly.