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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: nicegrin on October 25, 2015, 09:52:57 PM
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Hey guys!
I've been out of the game for some time but would like to know what the options are in the "small" hyper cardiod section.
Those that come to my mind are AT943 (aka SP CMC-8 H), AT853 H and Audix 1280 HC with Church cables.
Are there any other options to consider and what is the best one out there today?
Thanks
N.
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schoeps mk41 or mk41v with a Nbob KCY.
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The Audix M1250B-HC's:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/648650-REG/Audix_M1250B_HC_M1250B_HC_Miniature_Condenser_Microphone.html
I am not sure if the Audio-Technica AT853 line has a hyper cap, but it might.
Also, I believe the Busman Audio actives come with a hyper cap. However, I am not sure if they're still in production.
HTH, Chris.
EDIT: The Busman BSC2 actives are indeed in production and do in fact have a hyper cap.
http://www.busmanaudio.com/bsc2.htm
Also, I believe DPA offers a hyper, though they've just changed their product line around, so I'm not sure where to find that.
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I don't really think any "small" (meaning smaller than Schoeps MK41" hypers are worth considering, but of the candidates I'd agree w/ the Audix.
Personally I've had far too uneven of results with the AT 853 model to recommend them, and the AT 943s are worse. No bass at all.
I don't know what's up with that small DPA hyper... I think a few people here have tried those, though in tandem with 4061s to add back bass. Paging gutbucket.
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^ DPA also has a supercard for the modular line (4018, I think). I have no experience with it, so I have no clue how it sounds, but it is a small-ish option, particularly with the active cables or even the compact bodies.
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As Aaron mentioned, the DPA 'professional range' supercard is the 4018. It is P48 powered but is kind of a longish capsule, I think about 2-1/2" x 3/4" in diameter (plus amplifier body). I'm not very familiar with it.
I use the DPA 4098H, which is a miniature hypercard. It is low-voltage powered with a microdot termination like the 406x omnis. Same diameter as the 406x, but about 2" long once the miniature interference tube grid installed on it. It has a DPA natural sounding clarity which I haven't found in any other miniature directional mic. I prefer it to the AT miniature cardioids (853,933,9??.. I've only used the AT cards, not their supers/hypers and I've not especially liked what I've heard from these or other miniature super/hypers). It is light in the bass, but with a resonance free response and smooth roll-off, and I find the bottom can usually be EQ'd up to wherever it needs to be. Sometimes that roll-off sometimes offsets venue boominess nicely without adjustment. The AT 858 card has far more bass sensitivity than the DPA 4098 but not the same mid and top clarity.
I typically use the 4098s in combination with a wide spaced pair of 406x omnis which take care of the bass. I don't bother low passing the omnis as my arrangement has the omnis and 4098s separated by a few feet. I'm completely happy with this setup and it is about to displace my reference setup using Gefell supercards (which are excellent and not lacking in bass) which I also use in combination with 406x omnis. Wifi Jeff uses a coincident arrangement of 4099 + a 406x omni on each side, and If I remember correctly, he does low-pass the omnis with a slope which is basically an inversion of the 4099 roll-off. As I understand it the 4099 is basically the same mic as the 4098 with a different mounting configuration and less sensitivity.
The Microtech Gefell M21 capsule is my reference supercard, and I hold it as equal in sound quality the MK41 (I actually prefer the M21) but it is not as straight forward to run 'active' if small as possible is important. It can be run active with the appropriate tinybox and the boutique active cables available around TS, but is only provided as caps+full-bodies from Gefell and that's the only way I've run them. The Geff M210s are certainly superior to the DPA 4098s in most all measures except size and low-powering, but in my multichannel rig with the omnis those differences become minimal and not nearly as significant.
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This brings up a very basic point that I wish more people would let in to their thinking: Most directional microphones in the world aren't designed for recording wide-range music at distances typical of where an audience member would be. The main application for most microphones is communications--speech pickup at close proximity and/or in noisy environments. In some important respects, the design criteria for the two kinds of microphones are mutually exclusive of one another.
We typically look for characteristics such as flat, wide, smooth frequency response, polar patterns that are consistent across the frequency range, and low noise and distortion. Those sound like Platonic virtues that should apply everywhere, but they turn out to be specialized requirements in practice. For over 90% of the microphones that the world buys and sells, the main criteria are (a) low cost, (b) frequency response with reduced bass and one or more peaks in the treble for clarity, (c) ruggedness and reliability.
Well-known brand names with good reputations offer microphones like this because the market is SO HUGE compared to the market for high-quality music recording. They cannot afford to leave that kind of money on the table. And less good manufacturers do a land-office business in this type of microphone; for most customers low self-noise isn't a factor at all, and consistent response from sample to sample only matters at maybe the +- 3 dB level.
Unfortunately, people on this board sometimes ignore this situation and gamble on microphones (or capsules) just because they're small, directional, and affordable. But most of those are speech capsules, which sound thin when used for full-range music recording. You have to look at the frequency response diagrams and know what distance those diagrams were plotted from--or at the very least, read the manufacturer's description of what a microphone is designed to do. If there's any mention of close speech applications, then that isn't a general-purpose microphone or capsule, let alone a good one for semi-distant stereo recording with coincident or closely-spaced pairs.
--best regards
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As Aaron mentioned, the DPA 'professional range' supercard is the 4018. It is P48 powered but is kind of a longish capsule, I think about 2-1/2" x 3/4" in diameter (plus amplifier body). I'm not very familiar with it.
You may be thinking of the 2011 caps; I am pretty sure that the 4018 is the same length as the 4011 and 4015, which are a little less than an inch (23 mm).
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Here's the specification page on the 4018C - http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=234&item=24544#description
It lists microphone length as: 64 mm (2.5 in), but I suppose that includes the compact amplifier body, not just the capsule alone.
Just as DSatz mentions, the 4098H is intended primarily for voice applications as a hanging choir mic. It's reduced bass response either compensates for over bass-heavy stuff, or you'll need to use equalization or other mics to bring up the bottom for an overall flat response at a distance.
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Hey guys!
I've been out of the game for some time but would like to know what the options are in the "small" hyper cardiod section.
Those that come to my mind are AT943 (aka SP CMC-8 H), AT853 H and Audix 1280 HC with Church cables.
Are there any other options to consider and what is the best one out there today?
Gefell M 310 (http://www.microtechgefell.de/index.php/en/microphones/broadcast-a-recording/small-membrane-transistor-mics/48-transistormikrofonm310)
Sennheiser MKH 8050 (http://en-de.sennheiser.com/condenser-microphone-recording-soloists-mkh-8050)
Neumann KM 185 (http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=km180_description)
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Here's the specification page on the 4018C - http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=234&item=24544#description
It lists microphone length as: 64 mm (2.5 in), but I suppose that includes the compact amplifier body, not just the capsule alone.
Yes, that's with the body. About 2.5 inches for the capsule and compact body for most of the caps (the 2011 and the shotgun are longer). With the DAO4010 cables, it is maybe a mm or two longer. Caps plus the MMP-ER and MMP-ES cables essentially gets you the old compact series in modular form. I am actually kind of surprised nobody has experimented with this supercard around here...
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I've been out of the game for some time but would like to know what the options are in the "small" hyper cardiod section.
Those that come to my mind are AT943 (aka SP CMC-8 H), AT853 H and Audix 1280 HC with Church cables.
Are there any other options to consider and what is the best one out there today?
Depends on your purpose but the SP-CMC-25's (which I think are labeled supers) are as good as it gets in the tiny mic category. Perhaps a little light on the bass but what they record of that is good (and essentially all the tiny mics are light on bass to one degree or another). When not using the Schoeps I rarely feel any regrets that I used these.
If you prefer more bass (muddier :P ) in a tiny mic and are willing to spend considerably more then the DPA 406x are the choice.
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Here's the specification page on the 4018C - http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=234&item=24544#description
It lists microphone length as: 64 mm (2.5 in), but I suppose that includes the compact amplifier body, not just the capsule alone.
Etree DPA 4018er Listing:
http://bt.etree.org/?searchsss=dpa4018&cat=0
IA DPA 4018c Listing:
http://archive.org/search.php?query=DPA%204018c%20AND%20collection%3Aetree%20AND%20collection%3Aetree
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although not true hypers, the Audio Technica u853r line-cards (mini shotguns) are quite directional and can make good tapes, at least in my own personal experiences
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Etree DPA 4018er Listing:
http://bt.etree.org/?searchsss=dpa4018&cat=0
IA DPA 4018c Listing:
http://archive.org/search.php?query=DPA%204018c%20AND%20collection%3Aetree%20AND%20collection%3Aetree
Thanks! Too bad that only one is a "normal" stereo pair recording, though. Any chance you can post a link to that Joe Russo show with just the DiNa 4018 source? I would love to hear that...
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As someone already mentioned:
schoeps mk41 > NBob Active cables > Tinybox or NBox
very smooth off axis w/ excellent lower-end and "reach".
You then have the flexibility to use any of the Colette series capsules, which cover effectively any recording application.
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As someone already mentioned:
schoeps mk41 > NBob Active cables > Tinybox or NBox
very smooth off axis w/ excellent lower-end and "reach".
You then have the flexibility to use any of the Colette series capsules, which cover effectively any recording application.
^ This
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Thanks for the answers guys.
I've used AT943 hypers and Audix 1280 HC caps with church cables before and I do like the clean sound they produce.
The AT 943 H (SP CMC-8) has been my to go to mics for quite some times especially if you can't choose recording location and end up far away from the sound source.
I have never regret that I've brought them to a show really but as said earlier in this thread they are thin on bass.
I suppose MK41 -> cmrs -> tinybox -> recorder is as small as a high end rig gets today but I was curious if there is anything between that Schoeps setup and the AT943/Audix1280/AT853
both in size and price worth considering?
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I suppose MK41 -> cmrs -> tinybox -> recorder is as small as a high end rig gets today but I was curious if there is anything between that Schoeps setup and the AT943/Audix1280/AT853
both in size and price worth considering?
not really. Arguably the AKG ck93>battery box setup is a touch smaller, but that setup is a true homebrew that lacks an elegant solution like AKG ck63>actives or the Schoeps. Cost-wise obviously the AKG CK63 cost a lot less than Schoeps and sound very good, much better than just about anything but Schoeps in this category.
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I've got a pair of AKG CK93 homebrews. Never found them that amazing to be honest and not even a step up from the AT943s and the Audix.
Maybe I should make a comp one day but I can't really remember being blown away by any CK93 recording I've made or heard.