Topic: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track #3

[Chuck]

ProGold and DeoxIt. Those are the old names. They changed the naming and I'm not sure what they call it now.
I do a bunch of connectors at one time. So, I spray or pour some onto a cotton rag and wipe everything down with it a couple times per year. I use the ProGold much more than the DeoxIT, which is, or was, more useful for really corroded connectors. I can't remember off hand what it was exactly, but I did have good luck using the DeoxIT on something once.

I don't believe that mumbo jumbo that ProGold is a magical potion that makes music sound better or more clear. I just think it's a good general cleaner for connectors.
I started using it when I did sound reinforcement work and have continued using it as a taper. Some guys also use the Caig products on scratchy pots and faders on mixers and recorders.

[Myco]

Bit off topic, but then not.

So I borrowed a buddy's D100 DAT with the purpose of transferring some old DATs, and was planning on using the spdif in on the tascam. Have the 7 pin cable > rca coax. Plugged it into the DAT...and no DIN Lock. In fact it doesn't seem to recognize it at all. I know its not the cable, because I've used the SBM-1 with the cable and it locks in perfectly.

At one brief moment it locked, showed levels, and then unlocked.

Poked around the net. Looks like the dat doesn't put out perfect spdif voltage, but most recorders could take it. Does the Tascam take only regular spdif voltage, and I need to break out another setup (ie not the tascam 680), or am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: I think I figured out my problem. Patched it into my multiface>laptop, no problems. Realized the DAT was set at 48k, whereas the tascam was set at 44.1k. Switched the Tascam to 48k, now its golden.

I have a similar problem. My setup is below

I have my TC-D8 > 7 pin cable > output > digi in on my DR-680/system set to Digital input on the I/O menu > DIN locks ......
but no signal coming through.  I've tried setting the DR-680 @ 24/48, 24/44.1, 16/48, and 16/44.1 but still no signal passing, I do get a message saying DIN lock on the screen though. Any thoughts? I've switched it to DIN mon and I can hear the show and there is monitoring levels, but nothing records to the 7 & 8 channels. 

Anyone? Somebody here must know how to record digi-in here.

[phil_er_up]

Is there any way to change the 2 GB limit on the DR680?

I have a 2 GB limit in my software and its a hassle to stop the recording and start it before you hit the 2 GB.
Or if anyone has any other suggestions.

Thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Took a chance and ran my first recording with the DR680 this weekend and will post comments latter. Everything worked and I ran 6 channels. YAHOO! Found out many things the hard way...but found work around in the Field!!!

[phil_er_up]

Ran a 6 channel set up this weekend with the Tascam DR680.

My set up was a V3 with DPA mics XLR's into the V3 Analog inputs XLR and used the V3 AES digital outputs connected to Tascam DR680 Channel 5 and 6 via the SPDIF cable. Then used Channel 1 and 2 from the RCA SBD feed. Used Channels 7 & 8 for stereo mix. So running 6 channels with 24/96 wav format with DPA's on stage Front of lip with SBD feed then those run into the stereo mix.

Tascam DR680 settting If I remember correctly:
Set Tascam DR680 I/O - Input sel to digital and D. Output to AES

It is important to make sure everything is set up correctly before hitting the actually record button to start the show. Would be easy to make a mistake in the beginning.

Checked to make sure format was 24/96 wav. Ran channels as pairs for stereo or channel one and two output was one stereo pair wav file in 24/96 format. Everything ran well but had some small nuisances or things that might help others running the rig.

Display: - if you have it in AC mode (running from AC cord) it will run the DISPLAY on all the time. If you run it on batteries/external batteries it will show display for x amount of seconds. I did not see this but the default for the display is to run for 5 seconds with external/or internal batteries. You can change this in menu -> System -> Back lit (values 5 sec, 10 sec, 15 sec and 30 sec). I set mine to 30 seconds. 5 seconds in way to low.

Levels meter: The one bar is INSUFFICIENT to determine where the record level is. We need to ask tascam to put in 2 more levels for the level meter. Maybe with dotted lines at 2 different predetermined levels. Have 2 dotted lines on the display at19 at 22 DB would be my suggestion. First night ran levels low then second night almost too high...argggg.

Batteries/AC cord: I pluged in the Tascam DR680 AC cord to the SBD power. Everything looked good. I saw the AC meter in the display. Well I moved the Tascam DR680 and must of unplugged the AC cord where the 2 attach and WAS RUNNING it on the 8 batteries I had already put in before the show.  I noticed in the beginning of the second set the AC light was out and the battery light was down one of the 3 bars and buy the end of the second set it was done to one bar. So I would say I ran the recorder about 2.5 hours with 6 channels and the battery light was down to one bar for awhile. You might want to tape the AC cords together so they do not come apart. Put in batteries there is a fail safe to go from eternal power to internal power. I looked at the wav file and no glitches from going from AC to battery power.

channel Buttons: Make sure you have the channels you want turned on. As soon as you hit record if you get this wrong and you can not stop/start when the band has already started playing.  The extra channels BURN SPACE ON THE SDHC card. First time I set it right. I turned the Tascam DR680 off between sets and it RESETS to the default of all channels on and I did not check this and was recording 8 channels burning valuable SHDC card space. Almost filed one 16 GB card in 2.5 hours in 24/96 with 6 and the 8 channel error above. Put in a second 16 GB card for 3 set and it worked fine. HIGHLY RECOMMEND A 32 GB card or 2 - LOL.

AES/SPIDF format I ran the SPIDF cable form the V3 to the Digital in on the Tascam DR680. It hooked in no problem. I did a test at home with the digital output format set to "SPIDF" and "AES". There is a huge difference in these 2 formats SPIDF is consumer grade and AES is professional grade. I ran 2 tests one with AES on then the other with SPIDF on and listened to both wav files on the computer. The SPIDF sounded nice but was thin and seemed to be missing something. Then listened to the AES file and WOW what a difference a really full sounding file with more detail and just seemed more information coming at you.

Battery meter: When the battery power on the Tascam DR680 went from AC to batteries the "Battery meter" was NOT accurate. It showed hardly any juice left when I new at least 1/2 the battery power was left on the battiers. The "Battery meter" would grow instead of shrink as the night went on. This "Battery meter" was not reliable IMO or I was using it wrong.

Noise in outputs: Chuck asked if anyone noticed noise from touching the connectors TRS in the Tascam DR680. This happened once during set 2 for about 2 minutes then went back to normal. I think I moved the deck.

One thing I found is it is hard to see the meters if its not positioned right. So Next time when I set it I don't want to move it for the above reasons. Pulling out AC cord from one another. TRS connections causing static if moved.

Thats all I remember right now...

[Todd R]

AES/SPIDF format I ran the SPIDF cable form the V3 to the Digital in on the Tascam DR680. It hooked in no problem. I did a test at home with the digital output format set to "SPIDF" and "AES". There is a huge difference in these 2 formats SPIDF is consumer grade and AES is professional grade. I ran 2 tests one with AES on then the other with SPIDF on and listened to both wav files on the computer. The SPIDF sounded nice but was thin and seemed to be missing something. Then listened to the AES file and WOW what a difference a really full sounding file with more detail and just seemed more information coming at you.

Thanks for the detailed reporting Patrick!  So I didn't realize you had gotten a 680, very nice, becoming the recorder of choice for the CO Crue.

On your point above, I think this is a case of hearing what you want to hear.  There is no difference whatsover in sound between a spdif bitstream and an AES bitstream.  They carry exactly the same sound bits (whether 16 bit or 24 bit).  The only difference in the digital "words" making up the AES and spdif bitstreams is a bit that is either flagged as consumer or professional.  This bit doesn't affect the sound at all, iirc it really is used to set consumer status, where consumer status doesn't allow digital clones to be made (SCMS stuff).

[Chuck]

After I cleaned up the recorder TRS jacks with the ProGold the scratchiness is gone when turning the TRS plugs in the DR-680. I've only ever had an issue like that with older gear. Now, any TRS plug I use works fine in those jacks.

[kirk97132]

Chuck...good to hear that it's all cleared up.  Still kinda odd that a new deck would need that.  Maybe there was some "dirt" from manufacturing? 


LEVEL METERS.  I think that the real world application is what matters most.  I think you will find that the placement of the line works as great reference point when setting levels ESPECIALLY in the 24 bit world.  Tascam has placed it at a point were it allows plenty of headroom and yet gives good levels if you set you levels to peak at about the line.   You just need to trust it.  I don't see asking for "two" bars being a way to make it more accurate.  after all the same increments will be applied to the meter scale.  So how does a "bigger" level marking make it more accurate?  Initially I thought the metering was weak but after using it I found there was actually good foresight in the placement and layout of the meters. 

[ArchivalAudio]

Bit off topic, but then not.

So I borrowed a buddy's D100 DAT with the purpose of transferring some old DATs, and was planning on using the spdif in on the tascam. Have the 7 pin cable > rca coax. Plugged it into the DAT...and no DIN Lock. In fact it doesn't seem to recognize it at all. I know its not the cable, because I've used the SBM-1 with the cable and it locks in perfectly.

At one brief moment it locked, showed levels, and then unlocked.

Poked around the net. Looks like the dat doesn't put out perfect spdif voltage, but most recorders could take it. Does the Tascam take only regular spdif voltage, and I need to break out another setup (ie not the tascam 680), or am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: I think I figured out my problem. Patched it into my multiface>laptop, no problems. Realized the DAT was set at 48k, whereas the tascam was set at 44.1k. Switched the Tascam to 48k, now its golden.

I have a similar problem. My setup is below

I have my TC-D8 > 7 pin cable > output > digi in on my DR-680/system set to Digital input on the I/O menu > DIN locks ......
but no signal coming through.  I've tried setting the DR-680 @ 24/48, 24/44.1, 16/48, and 16/44.1 but still no signal passing, I do get a message saying DIN lock on the screen though. Any thoughts? I've switched it to DIN mon and I can hear the show and there is monitoring levels, but nothing records to the 7 & 8 channels. 

Anyone? Somebody here must know how to record digi-in here.

Myco
not sure about the 680 other users may need to chime in
but you do know the TCD-D8 is only outputting 16/48 - so I would guess your entire recording  would need to be set at 16/48
doubt that helps... but I'd thought I'd chime in
--Ian

[kirk97132]

Ian,
   wouldn't the digi cable output what ever was recorded? So if it was recorded 16/44 then the output would be 16/44 right?  and as for the Tascam.  You could set it to 16 or 24 bit it wouldn't matter.  The other thing to be aware of Myco is that the 680 can be configures to record digital on channels 5 & 6 instead of 7 & 8.  You might want to check that.

[phil_er_up]

Chuck...good to hear that it's all cleared up.  Still kinda odd that a new deck would need that.  Maybe there was some "dirt" from manufacturing? 


LEVEL METERS.  I think that the real world application is what matters most.  I think you will find that the placement of the line works as great reference point when setting levels ESPECIALLY in the 24 bit world.  Tascam has placed it at a point were it allows plenty of headroom and yet gives good levels if you set you levels to peak at about the line.   You just need to trust it.  I don't see asking for "two" bars being a way to make it more accurate.  after all the same increments will be applied to the meter scale.  So how does a "bigger" level marking make it more accurate?  Initially I thought the metering was weak but after using it I found there was actually good foresight in the placement and layout of the meters.

I will always listen and respect others opinions. The first night I aimed for the levels slightly above the line and the AVERAGE RMS was only 28 or 29 in 24/96 in wavelab. I usually like Average RMS around 21. So the additional bars or dotted lines would help me aim for that.  I know about head room, but if my average RMS is not over 25 I do not get good saturation of mids and highs only lows at least with my gear.

Am I missing something?

[phil_er_up]

AES/SPIDF format I ran the SPIDF cable form the V3 to the Digital in on the Tascam DR680. It hooked in no problem. I did a test at home with the digital output format set to "SPIDF" and "AES". There is a huge difference in these 2 formats SPIDF is consumer grade and AES is professional grade. I ran 2 tests one with AES on then the other with SPIDF on and listened to both wav files on the computer. The SPIDF sounded nice but was thin and seemed to be missing something. Then listened to the AES file and WOW what a difference a really full sounding file with more detail and just seemed more information coming at you.

Thanks for the detailed reporting Patrick!  So I didn't realize you had gotten a 680, very nice, becoming the recorder of choice for the CO Crue.

On your point above, I think this is a case of hearing what you want to hear.  There is no difference whatsover in sound between a spdif bitstream and an AES bitstream.  They carry exactly the same sound bits (whether 16 bit or 24 bit).  The only difference in the digital "words" making up the AES and spdif bitstreams is a bit that is either flagged as consumer or professional.  This bit doesn't affect the sound at all, iirc it really is used to set consumer status, where consumer status doesn't allow digital clones to be made (SCMS stuff).

Thanks Todd for the note. There was so much difference between these files that it was not what I wanted to hear. Maybe I made a mistake and did not do the test properly each time. But all I thought I changed was the Digital output from SPIDF to AES and ran the test again. I deleted all the test files I ran last week. My wife even commented on how much difference there was. I will have to run it again in the future and see if I can repeat it.

[Chuck]

The first couple of times I used the DR-680 I thought I was going to hate the meters, but I have really grown to like them. I do still wish there was an actual clipping indicator though.

[Myco]

Thanks guys! Teddy actually filled me in on how to do this. To record digi-in I needed to set the 680 to Digital and Mix on the I/O instead of DIN, Stereo - Mix on the Main Menu shutting off 1,2,3,4, channels, and Mix Mon on the function screen. I now get the digi-in reading on the 5 & 6 channel, and I can monitor the levels there on 5&6, and the levels display in the mix side of the screen also. 

[NOLAfishwater]

The first couple of times I used the DR-680 I thought I was going to hate the meters, but I have really grown to like them. I do still wish there was an actual clipping indicator though.

see page 16 from the owners manual

  http://www.avisoft.com/DR-680.pdf

if signal is distorted at input level, the area below the channel is highlighted
if the signal reaches +2db the black rectangle above the channel will flash indicating overload                                                             
                                                                       

[kirk97132]

AES/SPIDF format I ran the SPIDF cable form the V3 to the Digital in on the Tascam DR680. It hooked in no problem. I did a test at home with the digital output format set to "SPIDF" and "AES". There is a huge difference in these 2 formats SPIDF is consumer grade and AES is professional grade. I ran 2 tests one with AES on then the other with SPIDF on and listened to both wav files on the computer. The SPIDF sounded nice but was thin and seemed to be missing something. Then listened to the AES file and WOW what a difference a really full sounding file with more detail and just seemed more information coming at you.

Thanks for the detailed reporting Patrick!  So I didn't realize you had gotten a 680, very nice, becoming the recorder of choice for the CO Crue.

On your point above, I think this is a case of hearing what you want to hear.  There is no difference whatsover in sound between a spdif bitstream and an AES bitstream.  They carry exactly the same sound bits (whether 16 bit or 24 bit).  The only difference in the digital "words" making up the AES and spdif bitstreams is a bit that is either flagged as consumer or professional.  This bit doesn't affect the sound at all, iirc it really is used to set consumer status, where consumer status doesn't allow digital clones to be made (SCMS stuff).

Thanks Todd for the note. There was so much difference between these files that it was not what I wanted to hear. Maybe I made a mistake and did not do the test properly each time. But all I thought I changed was the Digital output from SPIDF to AES and ran the test again. I deleted all the test files I ran last week. My wife even commented on how much difference there was. I will have to run it again in the future and see if I can repeat it.

There is a difference in voltage levels that may account for what you heard but the data is the same in either format.


Remember that even though the audio data is the same between AES3 and S/PDIF, they have different subcode formats. AES3 converted to 75-ohm coax is not S/PDIF, and S/PDIF converted to XLR balanced is not AES3. Nor is AES3id 75-ohm BNC the same as 75-ohm RCA S/PDIF -- it may work, but it is not the same. They are still in their native format; just the transmission medium has changed. Going from S/PDIF to AES3 has a higher degree of success than the other way around. AES3 signals often are not recognized as valid by S/PDIF inputs. Whether they will work in your application depends on the equipment chosen.

Therefore the following passive circuits convert only the signal level and impedance, and not other protocol details (e.g., sample rate, consumer/professional status, nor correct any block errors in the data stream).

Taken from:http://www.rane.com/note149.html

Phil I'm not sure what you mean by saturation since that is really a magnetic tape term but what you record at level X should be the smae as what you record at the higher level Y.  Are you referring to the digital input?  In that case you would be controlling it at the preamp and could adjust you levels so that they peak higher.  IE: halfway between the mid line and the top line.  I think once you;ve used the deck a few times and get a feel for it you will like the way the levels are set up to read.