Topic: Help/recommendations for Omni microphones

[u2_fly_2]

Hi everybody...I am asking this on behalf of a taper friend in Sweden...
Which Omni microphones would you suggest and that also are in a midrange price?

What about CA-11 or CA-14?

What about Soundman Okm II?

What about DPA 4061?

My friend is recording mainly big stadium/arena rock concerts and also midsize rock concerts in Sweden...he already has a battery box and is currently using CA-14 Cardioids...

All input is welcome and appreciated!
Thank you in advance 
 

[SMsound]

Sweden is where Line Audio Omni1 (aka OM1) are hand made... around 1300SEK per mic if I recall. I love mine and everyone here does too, and they take pretty high SPL's with lower self-noise than the hi-SPL lav mics. Bigger than the lav mics you mentioned though -- does he want to go super tiny?

http://www.lineaudio.se/OM1.html

Otherwise, can't beat a DPA 4061 CORE model, but you'll have to have them reterminated or buy them reterminated figure out the microdot connectors (not a problem just one more step to figure out).

What recorder and battery box is he using?

[checht]

DPA for sure

[breakonthru]

Reminder that you if buying 406x to buy new or known light use from a fellow taper. Cheap ones on used market from random people are often formerly “theatre mics” with heavy use that are at or near the end of their lives, and unless they go at the connector end are not serviceable.

If buying new 406x I’d elect for the the heavy duty version with the slightly thicker cable (4071?) imo the cable thickness isn’t a variable when inside a croakie anyway and they improve on the weakest aspect of the mic

[u2_fly_2]

Sweden is where Line Audio Omni1 (aka OM1) are hand made... around 1300SEK per mic if I recall. I love mine and everyone here does too, and they take pretty high SPL's with lower self-noise than the hi-SPL lav mics. Bigger than the lav mics you mentioned though -- does he want to go super tiny?

http://www.lineaudio.se/OM1.html

Otherwise, can't beat a DPA 4061 CORE model, but you'll have to have them reterminated or buy them reterminated figure out the microdot connectors (not a problem just one more step to figure out).

What recorder and battery box is he using?

Thank you for the input...he currently has this line-up:
CA-14 Cardioid Microphones -> Battery Box -> Zoom H1n

He´s looking for a stealth-kind-of-recorder for the future and the mic´s should be as tiny as possible too...he might want to buy a Roland R-07 in the future.

Line Audio is also another option but not the first choice...but they seem to be very nice too.

Also, thank you for the info about the DPA 4061. I will talk more to him and see what he´s options are.

[u2_fly_2]

Reminder that you if buying 406x to buy new or known light use from a fellow taper. Cheap ones on used market from random people are often formerly “theatre mics” with heavy use that are at or near the end of their lives, and unless they go at the connector end are not serviceable.

If buying new 406x I’d elect for the the heavy duty version with the slightly thicker cable (4071?) imo the cable thickness isn’t a variable when inside a croakie anyway and they improve on the weakest aspect of the mic

Thank you very much for the info!
Good to know these things before you might want to buy some used one´s...

[SMsound]

Thank you for the input...he currently has this line-up:
CA-14 Cardioid Microphones -> Battery Box -> Zoom H1n

He´s looking for a stealth-kind-of-recorder for the future and the mic´s should be as tiny as possible too...he might want to buy a Roland R-07 in the future.

^^ Lose the Zoom H1n. R-07 is fine. Personally I would want a Sony (maximally tiny) or a Zoom F3 (32 bit = can't screw up levels).

If you want the ultimate lav mic super mini/discreet setup, I would do an Iphone (must have lightning i.e. pre-Iphone-15) ->  DPA MMA D:Vice -> microdot DPA 4061 CORE pair (for loud shows, or DPA 4060 CORE for non-deafening shows). The DPA box was recently discontinued so harder to find and not cheap, but nothing on the market is smaller/more discrete than that setup.  Takes care of dealing with microdots too.

[HealthCov Chris]

I have gotten great value out of my CA-14 omni pair.  Though I rarely have ran them alone. Usually I split them about 2-3 feet and have a directional pain in the middle.  They also make good matrix recordings when paired with soundboard. 

[u2_fly_2]

Thank you for the input...he currently has this line-up:
CA-14 Cardioid Microphones -> Battery Box -> Zoom H1n

He´s looking for a stealth-kind-of-recorder for the future and the mic´s should be as tiny as possible too...he might want to buy a Roland R-07 in the future.

^^ Lose the Zoom H1n. R-07 is fine. Personally I would want a Sony (maximally tiny) or a Zoom F3 (32 bit = can't screw up levels).

If you want the ultimate lav mic super mini/discreet setup, I would do an Iphone (must have lightning i.e. pre-Iphone-15) ->  DPA MMA D:Vice -> microdot DPA 4061 CORE pair (for loud shows, or DPA 4060 CORE for non-deafening shows). The DPA box was recently discontinued so harder to find and not cheap, but nothing on the market is smaller/more discrete than that setup.  Takes care of dealing with microdots too.

Yes, using a Iphone in the setup could be very good...thanks for the advice :-)

[u2_fly_2]

I have gotten great value out of my CA-14 omni pair.  Though I rarely have ran them alone. Usually I split them about 2-3 feet and have a directional pain in the middle.  They also make good matrix recordings when paired with soundboard.

Thank you for the input :-)

[nulldogmas]

CA-14 omnis are good, but on the fragile side, and also it can be hard to obtain them given Chris Church’s often inconsistent shipping schedules. AT-853s are a good similar alternative.

But yeah, DPAs are the gold standard for both quality and size if price isn’t an issue and you can get a battery box that works with them.

[WiFiJeff]

The DPAs need a bit higher voltage than the usual plug-in-power recorders provide.  A battery box that provides at least 5V should work, with a cable that takes microdot to a stereo 3.5mm plug.  Church Audio made me a battery box (standard 9V cell) that takes two microdot inputs and provides a stereo 3.5mm output for many portable recorders.  The Sony D100 (among its many nice features) will power the DPAs, and the Deity PR-2 announced last April (and still vaporware) is supposed to have switchable 3/5V power; both these will need a microdot-to-3.5mm cable (I have verified that the D100 works fine with this, but I have not made many recordings with it).

Or you can go for the DPA4063, which is an omni with lower plug-in-power requirements.

[u2_fly_2]

CA-14 omnis are good, but on the fragile side, and also it can be hard to obtain them given Chris Church’s often inconsistent shipping schedules. AT-853s are a good similar alternative.

But yeah, DPAs are the gold standard for both quality and size if price isn’t an issue and you can get a battery box that works with them.

Thank you for the input :-)

[u2_fly_2]

The DPAs need a bit higher voltage than the usual plug-in-power recorders provide.  A battery box that provides at least 5V should work, with a cable that takes microdot to a stereo 3.5mm plug.  Church Audio made me a battery box (standard 9V cell) that takes two microdot inputs and provides a stereo 3.5mm output for many portable recorders.  The Sony D100 (among its many nice features) will power the DPAs, and the Deity PR-2 announced last April (and still vaporware) is supposed to have switchable 3/5V power; both these will need a microdot-to-3.5mm cable (I have verified that the D100 works fine with this, but I have not made many recordings with it).

Or you can go for the DPA4063, which is an omni with lower plug-in-power requirements.

Thank you for the helpful input :-)

[voltronic]

The DPAs need a bit higher voltage than the usual plug-in-power recorders provide.  A battery box that provides at least 5V should work, with a cable that takes microdot to a stereo 3.5mm plug.  Church Audio made me a battery box (standard 9V cell) that takes two microdot inputs and provides a stereo 3.5mm output for many portable recorders.  The Sony D100 (among its many nice features) will power the DPAs, and the Deity PR-2 announced last April (and still vaporware) is supposed to have switchable 3/5V power; both these will need a microdot-to-3.5mm cable (I have verified that the D100 works fine with this, but I have not made many recordings with it).

Or you can go for the DPA4063, which is an omni with lower plug-in-power requirements.

In case others missed it, I want to emphasize that Jeff had a custom powering module built for him for his DPAs. The reason I call attention to this is that you don't want to just plug them into any power supply within 9V battery, because if they are actually fed 9V or higher, you risk damaging them.

Jon at Naiant Studio can make you custom PFAs for these mics, although I'm not sure he can do microdot connectors. My 4061's came with TA4 termination so Jon was able to make me PFAs to match. Note that this would be only applicable if connecting to a recorder with 48V phantom powered XLR inputs. If you have microdot termination, you would have to use DPA's own XLR adapters in this situation.

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned about the DPA lavs is their moisture resistance. They are made to withstand being sweat upon by stage actors. There used to be a video on DPA's website where a guy goes wading into a lake wearing one, and while the audio cuts out while the capsule is immersed, the mic is totally fine afterwards. The official way to clean them is to swish them around in a glass of distilled water.

[thomasdk7]

Voltronic might be right, but wanted to add that I've been running my 4061 for 18 years using 9v, still works. Came with the DPA MPS6030 but have also used standard church audio battery boxes and preamps. Microdot to 3.5mm cable gives you a lot of powering options.
Would also second AT853, then you can switch between omni or cardioid

[voltronic]

Voltronic might be right, but wanted to add that I've been running my 4061 for 18 years using 9v, still works. Came with the DPA MPS6030 but have also used standard church audio battery boxes and preamps. Microdot to 3.5mm cable gives you a lot of powering options.
Would also second AT853, then you can switch between omni or cardioid

I might be totally off base about that, but I remember reading it somewhere a long time ago.

[aaronji]

^ This topic has been discussed many times here over the years. It is all a little murky, but I have never seen a definitive answer. Like thomasdk7, I have powered mine with an off-the-shelf 9V battery box from Sound Professionals. I have also used an MPS6030 and an MMA6000, both of which also use 9V batteries.

At some point, Jon from Naiant posted (now gone or, at least, not easily findable) that the DPA phantom adaptors had an 8.2V zener in them, which suggests that 8.2V is no problem. Additionally, the MPS6030 manual states, "The DPA MPS series is designed to work as battery power supplies for the entire range of DPA Miniature Microphones. Furthermore, the MPS6001 and MPS6010 will work as 48 V phantom power adapters. The MPS6001 delivers 5 Volts to the microphone voltage supply while the 2-channel power supplies deliver 9 Volts."

I have also asked DPA directly; the service manager in Longmont at the time (2013), said:

These are very good questions, the mic ideally like 8-12V to run. I have seen people use as high as 18V with no problems and as low as 5V.  If you get lower than that the mic gets really noisy. Most of our little power supplies put out around 7-8V.  Hopes this helps.

On the other hand, Len from Core Sound (I think) said 9V will fry the capsules.

So, in my opinion, 5 - 8.2V sounds like it should be OK. Maybe higher, maybe not...

[voltronic]

Wow, I would have never expected they could handle 12V, let alone 18V! I think it's worth another email to DPA to verify that info, and to see if it's any different for the newer CORE models

[aaronji]

Lots of mixed messages. I think I would try one of those 12V Sound Pros boxes, but 18V would scare me. A lot.

Maybe try Danish DPA, if you e-mail them.

[SMsound]

Danish and American dpa service emails respond in hours with detailed technical info from their engineers in my  experience...they're amazing.

[voltronic]

I just emailed the Danish head office. Besides asking about the optimal and safe maximum voltages, also asked if there was any difference in voltage handling for the CORE versions.

[blee421]

reportedly 9Vs arent the problem, *fresh/hot* 9Vs or "9.6V" nimh. the former can top 10 V and the latter 11V

it is also dependent on the details of the battery box's internal circuitry.

Len has more experience with these than anyone and i trust his rec.

Their customer support has been spotty since Bruce Myers left years ago. Seems they relay what they are told, not what they have learned from cooking capsules inadvertently

9V alkalines run from 9V down to 6 or so. put them in another device to take the surface charge off to be safe

[kuba e]

it is also dependent on the details of the battery box's internal circuitry.

The battery box has a resistor in its circuit. And both values, battery voltage and a resistor value are important for assessment. A higher voltage does not necessarily mean that the microphones will be burned. It would be better to contact the manufacturer of the battery box instead Dpa. I think Chris Church designed the battery box and preamp so they can power the dpa4061. I use dpa4061 with his preamp and battery box without problems. But who wants to be sure, write to Chris or search the forum here.

[voltronic]

I received a response:

Please find these data on our website – at the Explore specs. section - applicable to both legacy and core

https://www.dpamicrophones.com/lavalier/4060-series-miniature-omnidirectional-microphone

The relevant spec from the website:

Power supply (for full performance)
For wireless systems: Min. 5 V - max. 10 V through DPA adapter
With DAD6001-BC: P48 (Phantom Power). Will work from 12 V

So there you have it: 10V max.

[DavidPuddy]

reportedly 9Vs arent the problem, *fresh/hot* 9Vs or "9.6V" nimh. the former can top 10 V and the latter 11V

it is also dependent on the details of the battery box's internal circuitry.

Len has more experience with these than anyone and i trust his rec.

Their customer support has been spotty since Bruce Myers left years ago. Seems they relay what they are told, not what they have learned from cooking capsules inadvertently

9V alkalines run from 9V down to 6 or so. put them in another device to take the surface charge off to be safe

Powerex sells an 8.4v battery I have been using with my 4061 non-CORE heavy duty mics.

[u2_fly_2]

Thank you all for all the info :-)