Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 6)

[2manyrocks]

I've tried a few different approaches to recording a grand piano in a living room treated with acoustical panels, and the results were just okay at best. 

Find a good piano in a good, open space, and the results will be more pleasing. 

The nice thing about the 70d having 4 xlr inputs is you can easily try a couple of different mic setups to compare. 

[dogmusic]

spaced omnis

How far apart would you space your omnis? And how would you mike a grand in a small room?

As I said a few posts above, start at 50cm.  That's where things usually sound best to me, but you can definitely adjust in and out by ear, and the Williams Stereophonic Zoom doc has a chart that can be helpful.

For a piano in a small room though, this is NOT a good recording choice.  You're going to wind up accentuating all the early reflections of the low ceiling and narrow walls, and it will sound pretty awful.  Piano in a small room means you really don't want much of the sound of the room in your recording.  Instead, I'd try a traditional Faulkner array (20cm spaced fig8s, straight ahead) a little closer, maybe 3-4ft away and aimed inside the open lid roughly of to an angle at the bend of the piano.  The nulls of the fig8 should help avoid a lot of those early reflections, except for directly behind the mics where you may need something absorptive on that wall opposite the mics.

Another option is near-spaced cards.  I'd go for something like DIN or NOS instead of ORTF, again to reduce the room sound, but to give you some natural stereo.  You could also go X/Y which would have the least ambiance, but I'm not a fan of that for piano because the stereo image can move around in a distracting way as the pianist moves up and down the range of the keyboard.  In other words, the imaging is too precise.  Same placement distance to start with, but don't be afraid to go closer to get more direct sound and less room.  You'll have to experiment.

Just realizing that this should really be discussed in another thread, maybe in Team Classical.

Thanks very much for all that valuable info, including that Williams document which I missed hearing about.

My mics have been usually set-up in the curve or bentside of my piano using near-spaced cards. Recently I used the DR70d to add two omnis further away for a 4-track recording I hoped to blend together into stereo. But I couldn't get a sound I liked from the omnis and now I know why.

[dogmusic]

I've tried a few different approaches to recording a grand piano in a living room treated with acoustical panels, and the results were just okay at best. 

Find a good piano in a good, open space, and the results will be more pleasing. 

The nice thing about the 70d having 4 xlr inputs is you can easily try a couple of different mic setups to compare.

That's true about the DR70D and I've used it that way [see reply to Voltronic above]. It's great to be able to compare the exact same performance with different mic setups.

I'm afraid I'm stuck with this piano in this small space. I wanted a private spot away from the rest of the house and had this grand lifted by crane into my 3rd floor attic (the staircase was too narrow). So now I've got sort of a ship-in-a-bottle!

[2manyrocks]

^let's see the pictures. 

You will find this thread of interest.  https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/150891-ribbon-madness-some-comparisons.html

Spoiler:  his favorite set of mics was a pair of Joly modded Apex 205 ribbons with one aimed L-R over the strings at the bend and one aimed up/down at the bass strings at the tail--basically using the null of the figure 8 pattern to reduce the impact of the room.  I think Front End Audio still sells the unmodded Apex 205s for $99 each. 

Or if you have DPA 4061s, you can gaff tape them inside the piano and have a go at it that way. 

[dogmusic]

^let's see the pictures. 

You will find this thread of interest.  https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/150891-ribbon-madness-some-comparisons.html

Spoiler:  his favorite set of mics was a pair of Joly modded Apex 205 ribbons with one aimed L-R over the strings at the bend and one aimed up/down at the bass strings at the tail--basically using the null of the figure 8 pattern to reduce the impact of the room.  I think Front End Audio still sells the unmodded Apex 205s for $99 each. 

Or if you have DPA 4061s, you can gaff tape them inside the piano and have a go at it that way.

Sorry about the quadruple pictures. My wife hit the wrong button at the time. I was up on the balcony of the attic during the hoist, helping to guide it in.

I tried my DPA 4061s but they made my already bright piano sound harsh. So I've been using Beyer MC 930's at the curve. That's been the best sound yet.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[2manyrocks]

That's the most excitement in the 70d thread we've had in a long time.

[F.O.Bean]

+T on those pics! Easily the coolest pics I've seen in AWHILE

[goodcooker]

When I was a teenager my band practiced in the detached garage of our drummer's parent's house. It was a big old house that had a baby grand in the "parlor". One time he took us up to the third floor that he called the "ballroom". Back in the day the owners of the house would throw these big soirees so they had double French doors installed on the side of the house and a extendable hoist system mounted to the inside ceiling joists. They would wheel the piano out onto the uncovered wrap around porch, rope it up to a block and tackle pulley system and raise the piano up to the third floor for formal parties. Once up to the third floor hanging outside the house, the hoist system simply retracted on ball bearing gliders (think huge drawer slides) back in to the ballroom and the piano dropped down 6 inches to rest on a reinforced platform like a miniature stage with room for a few other musicians.

They never would let us play our U2, REM and the Cure covers up there.

Back on topic......

[Fried Chicken Boy]

Very cool pictures, dogmusic.  I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.

[dogmusic]

Very cool pictures, dogmusic.  I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.

So that's why they were called Acme Movers!

[F.O.Bean]

Very cool pictures, dogmusic.  I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.

So that's why they were called Acme Movers!

  Zip Zip Bang!

[ashevillain]

In the DR-70D FAQ, there is this statement...

Certain microUSB cables do not work with this unit for file transfer, even when they are known good USB 2.0 cables which work with other devices.  Users have experienced the 70D abruptly dismounting from the computer and shutting down mid-transfer.

...which got me to thinking, are there any known instances of a micro-USB cable not working for providing power?

I don't plan on transferring directly from the recorder to the computer, so that will not be an issue for me. I just want to hedge against having an issue with power while recording is in process.

[Life In Rewind]

In the DR-70D FAQ, there is this statement...

Certain microUSB cables do not work with this unit for file transfer, even when they are known good USB 2.0 cables which work with other devices.  Users have experienced the 70D abruptly dismounting from the computer and shutting down mid-transfer.

...which got me to thinking, are there any known instances of a micro-USB cable not working for providing power?

I don't plan on transferring directly from the recorder to the computer, so that will not be an issue for me. I just want to hedge against having an issue with power while recording is in process.

If I've had USB cable issues - they were very obvious - like some cables just dont work for power. Solution: Dont use that cable.

[2manyrocks]

I picked up some cheapo usb cables from the dollar store that would recharge my tablet, but for some reason, wouldn't recharge a phone that used the same connections.

I would think you could immediately tell if the cable will or won't work to power the 70d depending on whether the screen pops up asking you if it's a storage or power connection when you turn on the 70d?

But yes, apparently not all cables actually work with all devices, apparently even if they appear to have the right connectors. 

[voltronic]

That statement in the FAQ came from me - I don't know of anyone else who had issues.  But I had some brand new USB cables from Monoprice I was trying to use to transfer, and it would not work.  Every single cheap USB cable I've used since then has worked without a hiccup, so maybe it's just those cables that are bad and I should delete that statement.

Right now, I'm using these for microUSB and they are rock-solid and very durable.  Kevlar fibers running through them too, just like DPA and Schoeps cables!