Topic: Edirol R-09 Release Information -ptII

[udovdh]

Found that. Not sure what you are trying to understand honestly.

Why level 8 is said to be unity gain.
Read my initial/orginial `question`.
The ADC needs 0.77 Vrms to get to 0dBFS if I recall correctly.
Level 8 does need more signal to reach 0dBFS.
A lower level on the R09 gives 0dBFS at 0.77 Vrms.

[Zaphod]

Found that. Not sure what you are trying to understand honestly.

Why level 8 is said to be unity gain.
Read my initial/orginial `question`.
The ADC needs 0.77 Vrms to get to 0dBFS if I recall correctly.
Level 8 does need more signal to reach 0dBFS.
A lower level on the R09 gives 0dBFS at 0.77 Vrms.

Unity gain just means the R-09's preamp isn't adding anything to the signal. I don't think it has to do with reaching 0dBFS.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I did some quick pink noise test measurements of the r09 gain back when I first got it.. They did not match the "8 is unity" single-shooter theory.  They showed that the r09 adds gain even at trim setting 1. I don't have the notes handy (and I know that I did it very differently than I normally do) but my summary says the r09 line in adds +12dB at trim 1.

I repeated the process today using a 3000 hz sine wave.

3000 hz sine > ua5 rca out > 722 & r09

The 722 gain was set at 0.0.  I adjusted the ua5 output until the 722 meters showed -20dbFS peak.

I analyzed that file using baudline and the sample was -19.9 dBFS peak as expected.

The r09 at trim 8 records that same tone as -10.2dBFS.
At trim 1 it records as -16.9dBFS.

So by these measurements it would seem there is no 'unity' on the r09 at all and that line-in trim 1 adds at least 3dB.  It would be great if someone else could do some tests, I'm gonna watch football and stuff.

The big question in my mind is which SOUNDS better when running an external pre, trim 1 or trim 8.


trim     line-in
setting  gain*
0 -58
1 +2.9
2 +3.9
3 +4.9
4 +5.8
5 +6.8
6 +7.8
7 +8.6
8 +9.6
9 +10.6
10 +11.5
11 +12.5
12 +13.3 (-6 meter mark)
13 +14.2
14 +15.2
15 +16.2 (meter mark just below clip)
16 +17.2
17 +18.2
18 +19.3 (clip light on)

* as measured in wav file vs 722 at 0db gain

[hyperplane]

I believe these are the first posts that talk of the R-09 gain at #8 being "unity" or zero gain:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=69131.msg926447#msg926447

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=68518.msg919498#msg919498

I'm not sure how gain setting #8 was deemed to be unity/zero gain, however, as no real tests were shown to prove that theory.

[lbgspam]

I just got R-09 and I like it so far (love it actually!), yet to use it in the field

However, I was VERY surprised how NOT a big deal the battery/usb port/SD slot door is to use.  The way people were complaining & whinning about it in these forums I thought it was this BIIIGGGGG deal or something, and honestly, uh, it was no big deal.  In 2 minutes I figured it out and I actually LIKE it this way.  Keeps all the ports clearn.

[udovdh]

Unity gain just means the R-09's preamp isn't adding anything to the signal. I don't think it has to do with reaching 0dBFS.

Sure.
If I would give 0.77 Vrms to the deck and it would be at unit gain I would see 0dBFS at the ADC chip.
0dBFS is my only, simple, method to check what is going on.

[udovdh]

So by these measurements it would seem there is no 'unity' on the r09 at all and that line-in trim 1 adds at least 3dB. 

Thanks for digging into this. Your findings add more info to what is known about the gain structure.

The big question in my mind is which SOUNDS better when running an external pre, trim 1 or trim 8.

That is the next interesting question, indeed.

[hyperplane]

Something worth noting is that someone else here at TS started an R-09 thread, and he had a bad/distorted recording when turning his external preamp up with a lot of gain while having the R-09 gain very low. The following show he turned up the gain on the R-09, and turned down the gain on the external preamp, and he got a better recording with no distortion. The problem seemed very much like the classic "brickwalling" problem with Sony D7/D8 DAT decks and recording at/below gain #4.

[pjdavep]

<snip>
15 +16.2 (meter mark just below clip)
16 +17.2
17 +18.2
18 +19.3 (clip light on)

* as measured in wav file vs 722 at 0db gain

Freelunch, when the sine wave started to approach clipping in the R-09, did it start to distort?

Thanks,
  pjdavep

[Gutbucket]

T's to the gain investigators.

Received my Trancend rebate check last Friday (for my card purchased mid July). The only marking on the check & envelope is "Rebate Center", I didn't realize what it was for until I logged into TS this morning and others reported checks arriving.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Freelunch, when the sine wave started to approach clipping in the R-09, did it start to distort?

It looked pretty good right up until clipping.

Got my rebate on saturday. $30..  In a couple weeks that may be enough for another 4GB card 

[lbgspam]

Freelunch, when the sine wave started to approach clipping in the R-09, did it start to distort?

It looked pretty good right up until clipping.

Got my rebate on saturday. $30..  In a couple weeks that may be enough for another 4GB card 

Considering that the 4gb SD card was close to $200 in May 2006, probably!

[twoheadedboy]

Man, the battery door on this thing SUCKS. I wouldn't want to have to do this in the dark while stealthing, that's for sure. And I'm definitely glad I got the 4GB card so that I don't have to change that.

Other than that, pretty sweet. I'm thinking about getting some black construction paper and scotch taping it over the record button for each show. Should be flimsy enough to still operate and remove without residue after the show, yet opaque enough to be effective. Anyone else come up with a better idea?

[udovdh]

I use some plastic from garbage can bags. Blackish yet slightly transparant. Two layers.

[twoheadedboy]

I use some plastic from garbage can bags. Blackish yet slightly transparant. Two layers.

Cool, I happen to have that kind too! How did you affix it to the deck?