Topic: intermittent problem with m10 inputs

[Todd R]

The jacks on the M10 just don't seem to be all that stable so I'm gonna have to replace the jack myself or get someone to do it.

I can't say myself whether this seems to be the case or not as I haven't used my M10 that much since getting it a few months back.  If it is the case though, it is too bad.  I got the M10 since I've had such a good experience with my D50.  I've had that for many years now and have given it a fair amount of use in the field.  The connectors on it have been great, and overall the recorder has been rock solid and is very well built.

As to 1/8" connectors, not great I suppose, but my D50 has been fine.  After many years of being able to trust it, I've now gone over so it is my main recorder.  I do this as a hobby, so while XLR connectors might be a better approach, I'd rather put the money in other parts of my rig.  If sometime the 1/8" connectors fail me in the field, it isn't a big deal since I'm just a hobbyist and almost certainly there are other tapers.  For that matter, I usually run the M10 as backup, so I'd probably have my own recording as well.

[cashandkerouac]

so far i've had no issues with my M10, but a buddy has had issues with his line-in jack.  it stopped working on one of his units with no visible damage and there doesn't appear to be an affordable fix.  if the jack goes the recorder is toast.   

[MIQ]

Unfortunately, there is no control over what type of jack a recorder manufacturer uses.  Mass built units, most likely the least expensive jack that fits their design.

...ahh save million dollars, we use cheap jack so product work when we ship then it fail they buy another!!!

Building consumer electronics is of course a balancing act between size, feature set, competitive products, cost, warranty, etc.   Product designers DO have control over what parts are used and spend quite a bit of time trying to optimize the parts based on the balancing act mentioned.  "Least Expensive" is almost always NOT the choice that is made, especially by makers with a brand to protect (ala Sony).  The least expensive choices are NOT worth the hassles in production, product returns, and damage to the brand.  If the maker is offering a warranty, (most reputable brands we deal with do), then the life of the jack is supposed to exceed the warranty time. 

If cheapest cost was always the deciding factor it would extend to the XLR jacks used by these same makers and the argument that everyone should just use recorders with XLRs would lead to the same issues. 

Taking a look at the products offered by Sony, Roland, etc and even the lower volume guys like Church and Niant shows products that offer 3.5mm jacks as an option for some of the connections.  They seem to be comfortable with the tradeoffs involved with using these jacks.  There are plenty of other threads on this board that discuss the plusses and minuses of 3.5mm TRS jacks.  There are arguments for and against ANY connector type.  I'm pretty sure every Walkman from the 1980's up to today’s MP3/FLAC players all use 3.5mm jacks for at least the headphone jack with success.  There will always be failures in the field, but the 3.5mm jack is not evil  in and of itself.  YMMV.

-MIQ

[DigiGal]

Unfortunately, there is no control over what type of jack a recorder manufacturer uses.  Mass built units, most likely the least expensive jack that fits their design.

...ahh save million dollars, we use cheap jack so product work when we ship then it fail they buy another!!!

Building consumer electronics is of course a balancing act between size, feature set, competitive products, cost, warranty, etc.   Product designers DO have control over what parts are used and spend quite a bit of time trying to optimize the parts based on the balancing act mentioned.  "Least Expensive" is almost always NOT the choice that is made, especially by makers with a brand to protect (ala Sony).  The least expensive choices are NOT worth the hassles in production, product returns, and damage to the brand.  If the maker is offering a warranty, (most reputable brands we deal with do), then the life of the jack is supposed to exceed the warranty time. 

If cheapest cost was always the deciding factor it would extend to the XLR jacks used by these same makers and the argument that everyone should just use recorders with XLRs would lead to the same issues. 

Taking a look at the products offered by Sony, Roland, etc and even the lower volume guys like Church and Niant shows products that offer 3.5mm jacks as an option for some of the connections.  They seem to be comfortable with the tradeoffs involved with using these jacks.  There are plenty of other threads on this board that discuss the plusses and minuses of 3.5mm TRS jacks.  There are arguments for and against ANY connector type.  I'm pretty sure every Walkman from the 1980's up to today’s MP3/FLAC players all use 3.5mm jacks for at least the headphone jack with success.  There will always be failures in the field, but the 3.5mm jack is not evil  in and of itself.  YMMV.

-MIQ

My last line was actually intended as an oversimplified joke.  Of course manufacturers have control over the quality of connector they use.  Sound Devices among some others actually do use high quality 3.5mm jacks on their products, ones that are probably easily obtainable/replaceable at that. 

Using 3.5mm input jacks like on the Sony m10 is just not something I'd rely on or recommend myself, especially for field use.  Running expensive mics like Schoeps etc. into one of these just doesn't make much sense to me, neither does Russian roulette but as you say YMMV.   

[Church-Audio]

Unfortunately, there is no control over what type of jack a recorder manufacturer uses.  Mass built units, most likely the least expensive jack that fits their design.

...ahh save million dollars, we use cheap jack so product work when we ship then it fail they buy another!!!

Building consumer electronics is of course a balancing act between size, feature set, competitive products, cost, warranty, etc.   Product designers DO have control over what parts are used and spend quite a bit of time trying to optimize the parts based on the balancing act mentioned.  "Least Expensive" is almost always NOT the choice that is made, especially by makers with a brand to protect (ala Sony).  The least expensive choices are NOT worth the hassles in production, product returns, and damage to the brand.  If the maker is offering a warranty, (most reputable brands we deal with do), then the life of the jack is supposed to exceed the warranty time. 

If cheapest cost was always the deciding factor it would extend to the XLR jacks used by these same makers and the argument that everyone should just use recorders with XLRs would lead to the same issues. 

Taking a look at the products offered by Sony, Roland, etc and even the lower volume guys like Church and Niant shows products that offer 3.5mm jacks as an option for some of the connections.  They seem to be comfortable with the tradeoffs involved with using these jacks.  There are plenty of other threads on this board that discuss the plusses and minuses of 3.5mm TRS jacks.  There are arguments for and against ANY connector type.  I'm pretty sure every Walkman from the 1980's up to today’s MP3/FLAC players all use 3.5mm jacks for at least the headphone jack with success.  There will always be failures in the field, but the 3.5mm jack is not evil  in and of itself.  YMMV.

-MIQ

My last line was actually intended as an oversimplified joke.  Of course manufacturers have control over the quality of connector they use.  Sound Devices among some others actually do use high quality 3.5mm jacks on their products, ones that are probably easily obtainable/replaceable at that. 

Using 3.5mm input jacks like on the Sony m10 is just not something I'd rely on or recommend myself, especially for field use.  Running expensive mics like Schoeps etc. into one of these just doesn't make much sense to me, neither does Russian roulette but as you say YMMV.

I use the best 3.5 mm jack money can buy right now. if you are going to stealth there is not much choice. I am going to think real hard about comming up with a new design for a super low profile 3.5 mm jack. because profile is one of the huge problems. I wish that for small recorders we would have used a locking connector but we did not adopt that as a standard. I use about 1000 or so Neutrik / Rean 3.5 connectors a year out of that I have had 2 failures in 9 years year. IF the gear is placed properly on the body these connectors can be reliable.