Topic: R-09 battery life with 2700mAh NiMH? (Updated with battery comparison)

[china_rider]

Hey all... Other than RC or DVD batteries I have not used rechargables in quite a while.  Figured now that I have a R-09 it's the time.  Is anyone out there using 2700mAh NiMH AAs?  If so how long do you get recording at 24/48?  Also, I noticed a set of 2900mAh from a no name brand.  If anyone is using them how long do you get?  I think I am getting the 2700s since they are rated at 1000 charges and the 2900s say 500-1000.

Also, anyone know if older chargers will have any issues charging the newer high capacity AAs?  I believe when I got my current charger 1700 or 2000mAh were the highest AAs out there.

Stay Kind,
Dana

[hyperplane]

I know this isn't much help, but I average 7.5 hours of recording time per charge at 16/44.1 with 2200 mah Energizer rechargeables.

I will try 24/48 with them this weekend and see what I get, though.

[china_rider]

I know this isn't much help, but I average 7.5 hours of recording time per charge at 16/44.1 with 2200 mah Energizer rechargeables.

I will try 24/48 with them this weekend and see what I get, though.

Actually that helps alot.  T+

The 2200 would probably do me fine.  The 2700 are $12 for 4XSanyo heavy duty.  The no-name (ACCUPOWER) 2900s are $13.  I think I am going to stick with the name brand.  My old charger is old enough where I think I will just replace it.  It takes 5-6 hours to charge, 12+ if conditioning.  I see one I know will charge the high capacity for about $40 and comes with a carrying case, battery tester, battery case, and 4 2700mAh.  That should keep me in good shape.

EDIT: Just realized this should probably be in remote power... waiting to be moved. 

[Jamos]

I just tried recording at 24/44.1 today w/my new R-09, and it went about 7 hours before running out of juice.  This was using 2500mAh Energizer rechargables...

I've been charging them in my 4 or 5 year old charger that I got with some PowerEx batteries quite a while back.

This is the place to buy your batteries if you want quality:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm

I highly recommend the PowerEx line, they are really well made.

good luck w/the R-09, I'm liking mine so far.
 

[china_rider]

This is the place to buy your batteries if you want quality:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/index.htm

Lol... That is where I got mine...  Ordered about 2-3 hours ago and already got the UPS notification that the payment was received.  Should be here Wed. T+

EDIT: Use the r4, most of the time I don't need to stealth (have not actually used the R-9 yet as the only recorder) but have Roger Waters comming up and want to be safe and sound. I've got tickets right in the center of the surround a sound stage. :-}

[china_rider]

For anyone is interested I ran some battery life tests with the R-09 over the last few days.

Testing Criteria:
- R-09 set to record at 24/48
- Backlight at lowest setting
- Transcend 4gig card. 
- Was using my sonic studios gear with my PA-3SX so the R-09 was *NOT* providing plug in power.
- R-09 gain set to 15

-- Battery Type: Regular Duracell AA 'Coppertop' - market price
3.7 hours recording, battery tester showed the battery as completly dead after the test.  Batteries were about 2 months old when used. (PS. R-09 properly saved the .WAV when battery power ran out.)

-- Battery Type: Sanyo 'industrial' 2700 mAh AA NiMH - $12.50 for 4 at Thomas Distributing
8 hours of recording, plus transfer of both 4gig recorded files to the computer.  Battery tester showed about 1/8 of the battery left when the test was done.  Conservative guess I could have got another 20-30 min recording time.

-- Battery Type:  "PowerEX" 2700 mAh AA NiMH (came with the charger), without the charger I think they run within $1 of the Sanyos at Thomas Distributing
7.25 hours recording including the transfer of the first 4gig file to the pc.  The Battery tester showed the battery to have no charge left when the test was done. (PS. R-09 properly saved the .WAV when the battery power ran out.)

Needless to say I am very happy with the Sanyo batteries and they are pretty much very overkill for the stealthing I will be doing with the R-09 unless I go to a no taping fest or something.

Ready for Roger Waters. :-}

[Zaphod]

Hey thanks for the test results, +T. I'm planning on getting some AA rechargeables for my R-09.

I do wonder how the Sanyos will hold up vs. the PowerEX over time.

[china_rider]

Hey thanks for the test results, +T. I'm planning on getting some AA rechargeables for my R-09.

I do wonder how the Sanyos will hold up vs. the PowerEX over time.

I'm no expert.... But when I called Thomas Distributing to ask a few questions I was told that Sanyo has developed some materials recently that currently make them better than the other brands and thats what gives them the 'industrial' rating.  Both the Sanyos and the PowerEX are rated for 1000 recharges.  I believe the price if bought seperately from each other are within a dollar or two.  Since it is not that much different I would just go for the Sanyos.

TD also had a set of 2900s from another brand, but they were rated as 500-1000 charges instead of just 1000 so I decided not to risk it.

Also, as a general note alot of older chargers won't completly charge some of the newer 2700+ batteries.  I was just going to use my *very* old charger... But when talking to Thomas Distributing they thought my old charger would not provide a full charge and would take hours more to recharge.   They had a package that included the 4 PowerEX, Charger, Carrying Case, Battery Tester, & plastic battery holder case for $40.  Figured it was worth the upgrade.

TD is where I got my original rechargable set and they seemed to have good prices and customer service again this time so I went with them.  You may be able to find things cheeper if you look but I am very happy with TD.
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-powerex-mh-c204w-nimh-battery-charger.htm

Dana

[china_rider]

Just another note... Decided to test the two chargers....

The new one at the link above charged 2 dead powerex in about 90 min.

The old one (same maker just 5-6 years old) charged 2 dead powerex in about 2.5 hours. 

Also, the battery tester shows at max charge with the older charger that the battery is only charged to about 90%.  Went to full charge when put in the new charger for another 15 min.

[guysonic]

TD is where I got my original rechargable set and they seemed to have good prices and customer service again this time so I went with them.  You may be able to find things cheeper if you look but I am very happy with TD.
http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-powerex-mh-c204w-nimh-battery-charger.htm

Dana

Another note for consideration with chargers.   The c204w-nimh charger seems a good charger, but could be better in that this charger ONLY looks at PAIRS of AA cells.  This assumes each cell in the pair is IDENTICAL in state of discharge, and charge characteristics.  Usually cells purchased in 'sets' of 2 or 4 cells are very nearly identical and should have been produced at the same time from the same production run, so using such cells in 'matched sets' and charging in chargers that can only 'see pairs' of cells is not a big issue. 

However, if ever you're matched sets get mixed with other cells, or one cell in a set ages differently from its mate, the charger will over-charge one cell, and under charge the other greatly shortening the reliability and life of the cells. This results in having cells that fall short of giving expected recording time.  Usually when this occurs, ALL the cells used in mismatched sets need be tossed for new sets, or keep used for less critical applications where running short of expected capacityr is not an issue.

Suggest best type of charger looks at EACH CELL, not just pairs of cells.   This type of charger will have a status light for EACH CELL placed into the charger and will charge correctly any combination of cells from a single cell to a full 4 or more cells placed into the charger with NEEDED precision regardless of cell's history and state of charge. 

Individual cell monitoring type of charger costs a little more, but insures fullest cell capacity and charge cycle life, and is worth paying twice the cost if needbe for having this ability. 

Battery maintenance tips is being updated in the next few weeks on page: www.sonicstudios.com/batsys98.htm

[dorrcoq]

+T for that info, Guy, something I never would have considered before

[dorrcoq]

- R-09 gain set to 15

Dana - maybe being a rookie taper I am missing something, but how do you set the gain on the R-09? 

[china_rider]

+T for that info, Guy, something I never would have considered before

Me either... I may return the one I linked to and get one with the 4 circuits.  It's only 10 more than the one I got. T+

[china_rider]

- R-09 gain set to 15

Dana - maybe being a rookie taper I am missing something, but how do you set the gain on the R-09? 

The R-09 has buttons, I believe on the left side for setting recording level.  0 is mute.  I am referring to this as gain.

Don't confiuse this with the vollme buttons on the other side that are strictly for playback.

[dorrcoq]

- R-09 gain set to 15

Dana - maybe being a rookie taper I am missing something, but how do you set the gain on the R-09? 

The R-09 has buttons, I believe on the left side for setting recording level.  0 is mute.  I am referring to this as gain.

Don't confiuse this with the vollme buttons on the other side that are strictly for playback.

OK, so actually you meant at recording level 15.  That makes more sense.  I think I read somewhere that anything over 8 was gain.  Thanks for the quick answer!  +T

[china_rider]

Yea... That is what I ment.... I've seen a few threads here that say 8 is basically unity and the level you start applying gain.  I've seen a few others that don't agree with this.  All I know is that with my SS Setup so far any where from 9-15 depending on the show seems to get me to comfortable 24bit levels.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Yea... That is what I ment.... I've seen a few threads here that say 8 is basically unity and the level you start applying gain.  I've seen a few others that don't agree with this.  All I know is that with my SS Setup so far any where from 9-15 depending on the show seems to get me to comfortable 24bit levels.

8 = unity is a myth!

[bewildered]

can you recharge rechargable batterys within the r-09 or must you always have a pair handy?

[udovdh]

can you recharge rechargable batterys within the r-09 or must you always have a pair handy?

Use separate charger.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

I might be wrong, but I don't think the battery consumption is related to the bit/sampling rate you use. Even more when there are no mechanical parts involved.

They are more related to headphone current demands, phantom power and LEDs on.

Does the manual specify anything on that point?

Once again: we badly need someone who do serious tests on the H4. with measured data and all. 

 

[guysonic]

I might be wrong, but I don't think the battery consumption is related to the bit/sampling rate you use. Even more when there are no mechanical parts involved.

They are more related to headphone current demands, phantom power and LEDs on.

Does the manual specify anything on that point?

Once again: we badly need someone who do serious tests on the H4. with measured data and all. 

 

I feel you have a point about recording mode, indicators, and phantom power having effect on battery life, likely ONLY phantom power being used or not and for how much power the connected mic is drawing is significant in making real difference in length of recording time.

No manual so far seems to offer any information on specific power demands with deck modes.

While I have yet to do a review of the new Zoom H4, while doing the bench tests for the reviews of MT and R-04 on my site, I didn't notice significant power changes with recording modes or indications. 

The H4 is quite different from those two decks in having an extensive 'effects' function that may change power in a more significant way, but as mentioned, somebody needs to measure this and post the results.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

No manual so far seems to offer any information on specific power demands with deck modes.

That's very unusual, isn't it?

In any case we should thank cellular phones research that gave us NimH batteries, who are really a great working horse:  eats very little and plows a lot. NimHs can let you use unsophisticated chargers, do not contaminate and are not memory prone as Nicads were.

I wonder if a Li-Ion battery in AA form would do a better job, if there's such a thing yet, but it would need a specific charger. 

While I have yet to do a review of the new Zoom H4, while doing the bench tests for the reviews of MT and R-04 on my site, I didn't notice significant power changes with recording modes or indications.

What bench tests can you perform? Which is your site?

The H4 is quite different from those two decks in having an extensive 'effects' function that may change power in a more significant way, but as mentioned, somebody needs to measure this and post the results.

I do not think they will.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

24/96 writes to memory or disk far more often than 16/44..  So there is usually a difference in power consumption. For the 722 it is documented in the manual.