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Author Topic: Silver clad cable recommendations?  (Read 20418 times)

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Silver clad cable recommendations?
« on: August 03, 2005, 11:04:17 AM »
Looking to buy some silver clad for making some custom cables.  Any recs for product and supplier?

Thanks!

Ray76

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 11:24:32 AM »
get some from Marc.

support a fellow taper. with silver clad i doubt you will save much more makin yourself.


Ray76

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 12:22:45 PM »
cool

Offline momule

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 12:44:52 PM »
Just for the record , I tried to contact Marc three times after trying his Bumblebee's for a week . Wanted To see about getting him to make me a pair,  But never got a response.
I then seen his post about not taking on any new custom orders a day or so later.

So after a few days of reading/chatting On another forum I decided to try to make My own.

 This belden cable works pretty Nice.
I picked up a 100ft of it and 50ft of the Mini Star Quad from a local Electronics supply store here in KC.

 Im finished with the first pair of  Star Quad , And am just starting on the SPC.
I wrapped the star quad in 3/16" Nylon techflex (which I warn you now is a PIA) simply cause I didnt care for the rough texture of the PET techflex.

I went with Black/gold Rt angle XLR's on the Mic side and straight on the Pre side.(4% silver solder)
Total cost of the finished the 12' pair of Star Quad's was around $35  (most of which was the techflex and shrink tube and shipping on them)

 I Hope to have the SPC's finished Up for a test run this weekend. To run a comparison Tape of Both .

 I'll fluff Westlake hardware , I had a conformation Email from them with a tracking # in less than hour after placing the order online. and had my stuff 3 days later. Nice folks to deal with.

 
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Offline leegeddy

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 01:54:43 PM »
Just for the record , I tried to contact Marc three times after trying his Bumblebee's for a week . Wanted To see about getting him to make me a pair,  But never got a response.
I then seen his post about not taking on any new custom orders a day or so later.

So after a few days of reading/chatting On another forum I decided to try to make My own.

 This belden cable works pretty Nice.
I picked up a 100ft of it and 50ft of the Mini Star Quad from a local Electronics supply store here in KC.

 Im finished with the first pair of  Star Quad , And am just starting on the SPC.
I wrapped the star quad in 3/16" Nylon techflex (which I warn you now is a PIA) simply cause I didnt care for the rough texture of the PET techflex.

I went with Black/gold Rt angle XLR's on the Mic side and straight on the Pre side.(4% silver solder)
Total cost of the finished the 12' pair of Star Quad's was around $35  (most of which was the techflex and shrink tube and shipping on them)

 I Hope to have the SPC's finished Up for a test run this weekend. To run a comparison Tape of Both .

 I'll fluff Westlake hardware , I had a conformation Email from them with a tracking # in less than hour after placing the order online. and had my stuff 3 days later. Nice folks to deal with.


momule;

sorry about not taking every order at this point. it's been hectic with my job and i'm just trying to get caught up with many back orders and dealing with modifications to various projects.

i'm working out of my home today so i'll be around most of the day today to answer any questions. i'm always willing to assist anyone in DIY/cable projects.

marc
"I'm a taper, he's a taper. Wouldn't you like to be a taper too?"
"Mics? What mics? This is my hat."

Offline momule

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 02:02:26 PM »
No sweat Marc, I know your a very Busy man and have a ton of stuff going on .

+t for all you have done/doing for this board...

Nick
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Offline leegeddy

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 02:16:10 PM »
No sweat Marc, I know your a very Busy man and have a ton of stuff going on .

+t for all you have done/doing for this board...

Nick

thanks nick.

backatcha!

marc
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 05:35:00 PM »
+T marc ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2005, 08:26:26 PM »
Belden Cable search engine

search criteria:   83335E

this is a 3wire 20gauge shielded spc that looks to be right nice as an interconnect / mic cable stock.
a local store sells this, just for fun i looked to see how much
pretty expensive stuff if you are not 100% sure you know what you are doing
like $275 for 100'

def worth buying from marc or todd imo if you are not 100% sure of yourself
one day i will upgrade from star quads myself and hope these guys are still making cables
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
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Offline Kyle

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2005, 08:28:49 PM »
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
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Offline Daryan

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2005, 11:01:10 AM »
250 bucks for wire...you must be kidding.  50 feet of mil surplus silver coated copper is 10 bucks at the most.  You can 1000 feet for less than 100.  If you are interested, PM me, and I will show you where.  I don't want to step on toes of those that make some very nice looking cables. 
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2005, 11:15:33 AM »
250 bucks for wire...you must be kidding. 50 feet of mil surplus silver coated copper is 10 bucks at the most. You can 1000 feet for less than 100. If you are interested, PM me, and I will show you where. I don't want to step on toes of those that make some very nice looking cables.

Marc and Todd provide a valuable service, but primarily to those unwilling or unable to make their own cables.  So I don't think providing a source for military surplus silver-coated copper wire is stepping on anyone's toes.  Pass on the cable source or those of us interested in making our own cables?
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Offline bluegrass_brad

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2005, 11:21:10 AM »

Pass on the cable source or those of us interested in making our own cables?

I too would be interested in knowing this, I need to make some nice cables for myself.
CK1x, CK2x, CK3x > Hub Industry Cables > Naiant PFA or MK46 > 460B
CK1, CK8, CK63 > 460b

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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2005, 11:33:38 AM »
Do we have a thread somewhere that has links to parts sources?

(too lazy the search)

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Offline momule

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2005, 12:28:00 PM »
Belden Cable search engine

search criteria:    83335E

this is a 3wire 20gauge shielded spc that looks to be right nice as an interconnect / mic cable stock.
a local store sells this, just for fun i looked to see how much
pretty expensive stuff if you are not 100% sure you know what you are doing
like $275 for 100'

def worth buying from marc or todd imo if you are not 100% sure of yourself
one day i will upgrade from star quads myself and hope these guys are still making cables

I posted some where in another thread that the reason this wire is so spendy is that its a "specialty" wire and is not made in bulk,  such as star quad and mini star quad. Or even the 1804A for that matter. Which drives the price up.
 
This was simply the first one Moke found in his search (his reply can be found in a thread somewhere)

I might  suggest looking for some Belden 1804A which is the smallest SPC wire that I have found intended for mic cables.. And can be purchased for around $1 a ft

you can find pic's of this wire here.
Bare wire.

cable with connectors (my cables)


Im gonna see if I can't one day set up a comparison between the belden cable and Marc or Todd's cable . Just for the anal folks like myself..
I had a chance to run Marc's cables for one show but did not have my cables made yet so I was unable to compare.



AKG 463's (uno ck62) > Mackie Onyx Satellite > Microtrack II

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2005, 01:39:13 PM »
The 1804a is sweet stuff.. Especially for short cable runs.  Mine seems to be on a slow boat from china... Still waiting for my 100' from Full Compass (good price, around .78/foot). I ended up grabbing a smaller amount at a higher price for my immediate needs.

I think we should post cable sources where possible..  Obviously, there are a Lot of different cable types and sources out there and availability does vary over time.

Offline johnw

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2005, 02:05:10 PM »
The reason I think Todd and Marc's cables are such a deal is because most retailers sell silver wire in lengths no shorter than 100 ft, so even at $.70/ft, you pay around $70 + S&H for cable, $5 for silver solder, $20 for XLRs, $10 for techflex, etc. Add all this up and you are looking at over $100 for the raw parts and if you need only a 15-20 ft and are only decent at soldering (or don't have an iron), it is probably more economical to buy from Marc or Todd. Plus "Bumblebee Miagi II" or "Seque Dogstar" looks much cooler in the source info than "DIY silver cables"  :P

EDIT: After doing some researchthis summer, I found that cable similar to Marc and Todd's (not the Belden, but the Teflon jacketed stuff) usually costs $2-4/ft from retailers unless you stumble upon some on Ebay. I'd be interested if someone knows of a better deal.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2005, 02:07:34 PM by johnw »
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Offline momule

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2005, 02:11:14 PM »
The reason I think Todd and Marc's cables are such a deal is because most retailers sell silver wire in lengths no shorter than 100 ft, so even at $.70/ft, you pay around $70 + S&H for cable, $5 for silver solder, $20 for XLRs, $10 for techflex, etc. Add all this up and you are looking at over $100 for the raw parts and if you need only a 15-20 ft and are only decent at soldering (or don't have an iron), it is probably more economical to buy from Marc or Todd. Plus "Bumblebee Miagi II" or "Seque Dogstar" looks much cooler in the source info than "DIY silver cables"  :P

I agree 100%.  and not to mention the labor time involved .and your supporting a fellow Taper .

You have seen the pic's and reviews. So you have some security that you will get a cable that will perform to your expectations right out of the box... Thats worth a few extra $ right there..


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Offline Kindguy

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2005, 02:35:32 PM »
TDS!

DPA 4023> aeta PSP-2> Apogee Mini Me > R-44

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Offline Daryan

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2005, 03:38:29 PM »
It's at home, I will post it this evening as long as they don't mind.

Daryan
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Daryan

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2005, 06:04:31 PM »
OK, here's what you do.  You could just buy 1000 ft like so,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Teflon-Insulated-Hook-Up-Wire-22-AWG-Red-1000-ft_W0QQitemZ7545450256QQcategoryZ73139QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

OR, just search on ebay for the following... teflon wire

You will never find it using any other search term, and believe me, I tried.  So there you have it.

D----
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2005, 06:30:57 PM »
yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

how do your moedown tapes sound?
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Todd R

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2005, 06:37:41 PM »
Thanks for sending along the info, though I'm still not sure that's what you'd want to use for mic cables.  I'm not trying to discourage the diy route, but I think you'd be better off with a 4-conductor plus shield cable (eg, Belden 83348) rather than using strands of unshielded hook-up wire.  Or if you don't want to go the quad route, something like teflon-jacketed silver-clad two-conductor plus shield such as the Belden 83319 or 83320.

If you did want to go this route with hook-up wire, you'd want to shield the cables.  You can get copper-braided shielding at various places, I think L'il Kim posted a vendor somewhere recently.  I don't know if there is a place to get silver-clad copper shielding, or even if it makes that much of a difference.  Ideally, you'd want to twist the hook-up wires and then insert them into the shield and then cover them with one or two layers of techflex.  All in all, that sounds like a tremendous PITA to me.  If I were to do the diy route, I'd look for the raw cable stock I listed above or perhaps the Belden 1804a.  
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline Daryan

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2005, 09:16:35 PM »
yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables.  I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk.  It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using.  They lie if they say differently.  It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case.  I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable.  They sounded exactly alike.  Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple.  It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.

Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Daryan

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2005, 09:18:01 PM »
Thanks for sending along the info, though I'm still not sure that's what you'd want to use for mic cables.  I'm not trying to discourage the diy route, but I think you'd be better off with a 4-conductor plus shield cable (eg, Belden 83348) rather than using strands of unshielded hook-up wire.  Or if you don't want to go the quad route, something like teflon-jacketed silver-clad two-conductor plus shield such as the Belden 83319 or 83320.

If you did want to go this route with hook-up wire, you'd want to shield the cables.  You can get copper-braided shielding at various places, I think L'il Kim posted a vendor somewhere recently.  I don't know if there is a place to get silver-clad copper shielding, or even if it makes that much of a difference.  Ideally, you'd want to twist the hook-up wires and then insert them into the shield and then cover them with one or two layers of techflex.  All in all, that sounds like a tremendous PITA to me.  If I were to do the diy route, I'd look for the raw cable stock I listed above or perhaps the Belden 1804a. 

I just posted the cheapest way.  I imagine belden is just the above already done for you by a big machine :)  Good luck fellas.
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2005, 09:19:56 PM »
yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.


yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.



nice, mine are pretty solid too!

feemes, eck!

did ya roll for tlg ??? i was still sleeping :P
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Ray76

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2005, 09:31:35 PM »
yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.


yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.



nice, mine are pretty solid too!

feemes, eck!

did ya roll for tlg ??? i was still sleeping :P

Let me figure this out....Femmes get EECH and TLG gets praise??
what a backwards world you live in Bean. ;) :P

damn jambanders.  :-*

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2005, 09:58:02 PM »
yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.


yeah, that stuff looks like junk compared to what marc and todd are using :)

d, have you even heard their cables? youre awfully quick to dismiss them bud 8)

I wasn't talking at all about their cables. I was referring to the price quote that someone mentioned about 250 bucks for bare wire!
To comment further, it is far from junk. It is the same wire that every speaker cable manufacturer who is selling silver/copper cables is using. They lie if they say differently. It is all about how you twist and spin or braid the wire that seperates the haves from the have not's in this case. I bought over 100 feet of it to make speaker cables, braided them in a star quad configuration, and compared them directly to a high end cable. They sounded exactly alike. Mil grade is mil grade, plain and simple. It is easy to make your own shielding as well.

how do your moedown tapes sound?

Disgustingly good, though I missed the meat encore night 3 due to running out of space on the Toshiba drive...I knew I shouldn't have taped the Femmes.



nice, mine are pretty solid too!

feemes, eck!

did ya roll for tlg ??? i was still sleeping :P

Let me figure this out....Femmes get EECH and TLG gets praise??
what a backwards world you live in Bean. ;) :P

damn jambanders. :-*

not my cup o tea, so glad i didnt waste HD space on the femmes :P


thanks god for diff tastes in music!
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline momule

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2005, 12:15:57 AM »
OK, here's what you do.  You could just buy 1000 ft like so,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Teflon-Insulated-Hook-Up-Wire-22-AWG-Red-1000-ft_W0QQitemZ7545450256QQcategoryZ73139QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

OR, just search on ebay for the following... teflon wire

You will never find it using any other search term, and believe me, I tried.  So there you have it.

D----

BS...
 you can find the cable using many other terms .

why would anyone want to buy 1000 ft of cable to make some IC's or mic cables.

if your looking for IC's this will be just fine, and its already shielded   http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-PLATED-CABLE-SHIELDED-TWISTED-PAIR-Teflon_W0QQitemZ5807117798QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2005, 05:50:46 PM »
if your looking for IC's this will be just fine, and its already shielded   http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-PLATED-CABLE-SHIELDED-TWISTED-PAIR-Teflon_W0QQitemZ5807117798QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks for the link, Nick. +T
Here is the link for the seller's ebay store, Patcher Supply
No don't go bidding against me, find your own item  ;D
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2005, 12:56:39 AM »
if your looking for IC's this will be just fine, and its already shielded   http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-PLATED-CABLE-SHIELDED-TWISTED-PAIR-Teflon_W0QQitemZ5807117798QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Thanks for the link, Nick. +T
Here is the link for the seller's ebay store, Patcher Supply
No don't go bidding against me, find your own item  ;D

From one of the spools in the auction, plus the seller said the wire "14 AWG stranded silver plated copper wire with teflon jacket" was made by Advanced Wire:

Advanced Wire & Cable Inc
Po Box 98
Xenia, OH 45385-0098 Phone:  (937) 372-4765

I couldn't find a web-site...

Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

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V3 / PMD671 / field ready DV-RA1000 / Oade W-mod PMD661 / PCM-M10

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2005, 07:08:12 PM »
I wonder how that 5th wire is twisted in with the twisted pairs.

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2005, 09:50:22 PM »
Me too. It says you could solder it in with the shield, just cut it off or tie it in with one of the other two pair. It may be worth a shot. Want to go halfs on it?  ;D 110 ft is alot...

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2005, 09:34:56 AM »
No thanks.. I'm spooked by the dead conductor/inductor twisted in with the signal wires. I could be mistaken about the potential impact.

Offline Sterling

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2005, 09:40:29 AM »
No thats true. Any help out there from the veteren cable builders????? Could this be a potential problem?


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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2005, 09:48:05 AM »
Don't let that single extra bother you.  Wire the extra conductor to ground or let itfloat, either way it  will be fine.  For what we are doing, the silver and the teflon are the characteristics of most importance.  My only concern would be that it has the extruded jacket rather than the more flexible wrapped tape jacket.

Of the 4 conductor with wrapped jacket, the cheapest non bulk I found was 1.37/ft for 100 ft.  The stuff in that ad, if it goes for $30-$40 is a very decent deal, especially if you are going to make interconnects or speaker cable.  The extruded jacket may be a little stiff for long mic cables but maybe not.

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2005, 07:56:02 AM »
here's a question.
if you bought a 4 strand cable that was sheilded...

could you take two pairs and make a "stereo Y cable" and use the sheilding as ground for each pair?  essentialy splitting the ground between each end of XLRs and that would have their own pair of cables?
that would be cool.  make a single wire XLR cable that had Y ends w/the XLRs on them.

I just finished making righ angle XLR ICs w/that 14awg silver clad cable I bought a while back.  I used the rest for some shotgun spekaer cables...and have a little left over for a power chord or two.
:) 

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2005, 10:31:59 AM »
OK, I found my notes.

The cheapest place I found after calling around to a few vendors is:  www.worldwidewire.com

I was quoted $1.27/ft @ 100ft and $0.97/ft @ 250ft for M27500-24RC4S06. 

That number should be right but be sure to double check.  The description is 4 SPC conductors with SPC shield, 19 strand, teflon insulated, tape wrapped sleave.


edit spelling
« Last Edit: November 23, 2005, 10:44:42 AM by Lil' Kim Jong-Il »
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2005, 01:20:24 PM »
OK, here's what you do.  You could just buy 1000 ft like so,

http://cgi.ebay.com/Teflon-Insulated-Hook-Up-Wire-22-AWG-Red-1000-ft_W0QQitemZ7545450256QQcategoryZ73139QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

OR, just search on ebay for the following... teflon wire

You will never find it using any other search term, and believe me, I tried.  So there you have it.

D----

BS...
 you can find the cable using many other terms .

why would anyone want to buy 1000 ft of cable to make some IC's or mic cables.

if your looking for IC's this will be just fine, and its already shielded   http://cgi.ebay.com/SILVER-PLATED-CABLE-SHIELDED-TWISTED-PAIR-Teflon_W0QQitemZ5807117798QQcategoryZ14978QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem




Has anyone actually used this cable for making mic cables or digital interconnects?  I only ask because my parents' company is a distributor for Raychem and I can get this stuff for cost. 
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2005, 01:31:20 PM »
Has anyone actually used this cable for making mic cables or digital interconnects?  I only ask because my parents' company is a distributor for Raychem and I can get this stuff for cost. 

What price?  Can you get the 4 conductor wire?  Twisted pair is fine for short ICs but concensus seems to be star quad for long mic cables.

That wire in the ad has an extruded sheath.  I think you want wrapped for the flexibility.


BTW, we were discussing these surplus wires last night and I just want to confirm that the 5 conductor wire I bought does have a twist inside the sheath - seems like 10 turns per ft.
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2005, 01:45:44 PM »
Has anyone actually used this cable for making mic cables or digital interconnects?  I only ask because my parents' company is a distributor for Raychem and I can get this stuff for cost. 

What price?  Can you get the 4 conductor wire?  Twisted pair is fine for short ICs but concensus seems to be star quad for long mic cables.

That wire in the ad has an extruded sheath.  I think you want wrapped for the flexibility.


BTW, we were discussing these surplus wires last night and I just want to confirm that the 5 conductor wire I bought does have a twist inside the sheath - seems like 10 turns per ft.

Wont know price until Monday morning.  If Raychem makes a 4 conductor wire I can order it - I can order anything off the Raychem catalog.  I'll see if I can get a copy of their literature and go through it.
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2005, 08:13:39 AM »
BTW, I'm bringing in some drawings of these cables to an engineer I know today to ask him all about them.  I'll see if I can get my price as well.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2005, 09:50:50 AM »
FWIW, I was discussing cable choices with Doug last week for the recabling of my Schoeps actives..  The actual Schoeps cable is just copper, no cladding on the wire or shield.  But it is a fairly special 3 conductor construction and custom for the application. Doug said a lot of silver cable sounds Awful.

If you believe that a cable change can make a difference, it stands to reason that some cable will sound worse.

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2005, 11:22:40 AM »
Hence why I'll be showing it to an engineer before I do anything else.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2005, 12:33:58 PM »
If you believe that a cable change can make a difference, it stands to reason that some cable will sound worse.

geometry, materials, and construction all affect the result.  Some silver clad cables will sound like ass just as some copper cables sound like ass.  The only way to really know is to build a prototype cable and try it out in your system.

Hence why I'll be showing it to an engineer before I do anything else.

John, since you are hooked up through a distributor it should be no problem to get a sample of a couple of meters.  Use the sample to build some ICs and see how you like them. 
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2005, 12:40:20 PM »
Hence why I'll be showing it to an engineer before I do anything else.

John, since you are hooked up through a distributor it should be no problem to get a sample of a couple of meters.  Use the sample to build some ICs and see how you like them. 

Good idea.  I'll be calling at around 2:30 and I'll let you guys know what happens.

I'm really more interested to see if these will be good mic cables.  I'll probably make some interconnects as well, but if I can make some great sounding, rugged mic cables out of them I'll be making at least 50. ;)
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2005, 02:55:12 PM »
Ok, talked to some engineers here and they all agreed that the cable would be great for mics.  So I called my dad to see what he could do - he's going to check on pricing and availability.  There may be a small problem - he has a feeling that the minimum order from Raychem may be 50,000ft.  But if that's the case he can probably order smaller quantities from other distributors who actually stock the cable.

He's also going to check on getting some samples.  I'll keep you guys updated as I know more.
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Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2005, 03:02:39 PM »
Ok, talked to some engineers here and they all agreed that the cable would be great for mics.  So I called my dad to see what he could do - he's going to check on pricing and availability.  There may be a small problem - he has a feeling that the minimum order from Raychem may be 50,000ft.  But if that's the case he can probably order smaller quantities from other distributors who actually stock the cable.

He's also going to check on getting some samples.  I'll keep you guys updated as I know more.

Hi there.  I'm interested in some (raw) cable if you get extra.  I'm sure others would be too.

By the way, the number one thing I'm looking for is reasonably thin cable (1/8" to 3/16", or 2.5-4mm), and *durable* cable.  Something with a cloth/mesh outer jacket would be best.  I'm looking for something that can be used for both mics and interconnects, like active elements, patch cords, etc.

Other vendor/brand suggestions are welcome too.

Thanks,
  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2005, 03:16:30 PM »
I still have plenty of BELDEN 1804a minature Silver clad star quad available.  Shoot me a PM if you are interested
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2005, 04:06:10 PM »
On the subject of evaluating cable sound.. I really wish I had a consistent music source in my home to do comps.

I think the best thing is to use the cables in your playback system.  If you have balanced I/O in your playback, you can use the prototype mic cables.  This has the benefit of allowing you to also burn in the cables, provided you buy into that.  The problem I have with trying cables as a mic cable is, as you indicated, no consistent source.


Hi there.  I'm interested in some (raw) cable if you get extra.  I'm sure others would be too.
By the way, the number one thing I'm looking for is reasonably thin cable (1/8" to 3/16", or 2.5-4mm), and *durable* cable.  Something with a cloth/mesh outer jacket would be best.  I'm looking for something that can be used for both mics and interconnects, like active elements, patch cords, etc.

Both the miniature belden and the teflon jacketed cable will be tough and both will work for your listed applications.

The big reason for a mesh cover for the teflon cable is because it's white.  IMHO, the belden looks fine undressed.  I'm always undecided about the mesh.  On the one hand, it hides the ugly white teflon.  On the other hand, I expect mic cables to be draped though puddles of rain and beer.  Mesh cover will wick liquid so you really wouldn't want cloth for use in the field.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2005, 04:47:46 PM »
I think the best thing is to use the cables in your playback system.  If you have balanced I/O in your playback, you can use the prototype mic cables.

True.  Pre to amp, I am currently balanced.  Though I don't know that my new playback system will be balanced..  One thought I have had is making excessively long cables for testing purposes.  The point being, the length will help reveal the nature of the cable (possibly using different cables for each channel).  Of course the length can cause other issues that wouldn't be a problem in shorter runs.

Quote
Both the miniature belden and the teflon jacketed cable will be tough and both will work for your listed applications.

Not to be too picky but.. I could never describe the 1804a as 'tough' (star quad and mini star quad being my reference for 'tough').  The jacket is thin. The conductors are only 28 awg. The shield braid is thin. Shield coverage is only 78%. It is very very flexible with not much 'memory' (unlike the teflon wrapped stuff which can be quite unwieldy) So much so that there is a risk of the cable kinking. I mean, if it is looped and you drop an xlr, I'd be worried about it pulling the cable into a light kink (where mini star quad, for example, will tend to un-kink itself).  I think that combining two cables together and protecting with techflex will go a long way to eliminating some of these concerns.  1804a cable also really likes to soak up "smoke" smell from venues.  Combined with the above, I would avoid using it where it could get stepped on or encounter beer.   Don't get me wrong, I like the stuff  ;)

Also, based on the amount of internal twist (not much, I don't think) and the small conductor diameter, I can't help but wonder whether 1804a is truly appropriate for longer runs.

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2005, 04:55:32 PM »
Ok, talked to some engineers here and they all agreed that the cable would be great for mics.  So I called my dad to see what he could do - he's going to check on pricing and availability.  There may be a small problem - he has a feeling that the minimum order from Raychem may be 50,000ft.  But if that's the case he can probably order smaller quantities from other distributors who actually stock the cable.

He's also going to check on getting some samples.  I'll keep you guys updated as I know more.

Hi there.  I'm interested in some (raw) cable if you get extra.  I'm sure others would be too.

By the way, the number one thing I'm looking for is reasonably thin cable (1/8" to 3/16", or 2.5-4mm), and *durable* cable.  Something with a cloth/mesh outer jacket would be best.  I'm looking for something that can be used for both mics and interconnects, like active elements, patch cords, etc.

Other vendor/brand suggestions are welcome too.

Thanks,
  Richard


If I can order in reasonable quantities I will *definitely* offer some up here, but I'll wait until I get a price first. ;)
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2005, 05:35:41 PM »
Not to be too picky but.. I could never describe the 1804a as 'tough' (star quad and mini star quad being my reference for 'tough'). 

Better to be picky now than after building cables.

The miniature belden cable I have seen seemed like it would be tough enough for most of our uses and similar to the canare mini star quad cable.  It sure seemed to be tougher than the cable used in the neuman actives.  I'll have to see if I can find out what that was.  I only saw it on the spool and decided I didn't want to spend the money at the time.  If it wasn't the 1804a, there must be a similar belden cable that is more resiliant.

Too bad it collects stink.  I didn't know that.  Between that attribute and techflex wicking beer, you'd eventually have cables that smell like a spool of wook.
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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2005, 07:43:23 PM »
Too bad it collects stink.  I didn't know that.  Between that attribute and techflex wicking beer, you'd eventually have cables that smell like a spool of wook.

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Classic...
Maybe a couple of small scratches, but thats because these mics are chick magnets.
Girls always up on Andy tryin to grab these mics, the scratches are from their wedding rings.

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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2005, 01:27:53 AM »
Well I found out those Raychem cables are obscenely expensive - $1/foot with a minimum order of 5000 feet.  But apparently they're that expensive because of a special jacket they have around them.  I'm looking into some other options and I'll let you guys know if I can find anything.
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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2005, 10:57:01 AM »
On Monday I'm going to get a copy of the entire Raychem cable line catalog.

Anyone still interested in this stuff?
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2005, 12:05:34 PM »
How much are you looking for?

I can send you a length of this stuff I have and you can try it.  If you don't dig it you can reuse the connectors later.  If you do dig it, I can give you the name of the guy who has it.  I think he has a lot more.  And there is always that link I posted above for >$1/ft.

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Offline John Kelly

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2005, 12:15:36 PM »
How much are you looking for?

I can send you a length of this stuff I have and you can try it.  If you don't dig it you can reuse the connectors later.  If you do dig it, I can give you the name of the guy who has it.  I think he has a lot more.  And there is always that link I posted above for >$1/ft.

I'll probably be ordering 1000 feet just for myself. 

Which stuff are you referring to?  The cable from ebay?
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2005, 12:37:08 PM »
I'm still looking for good silver clad for ICs, mic cables, etc.. But I'm stuck on the audio quality bit and knowing that 'silver clad' != good sound.  I also feel that you can't read the specs for a cable and know that it will sound better than cable that was specifically engineered and tested for use as mic cable, etc.

Another factor.. The quad connect that is good for mic cables may not be ideal for ICs.

Then there is the whole inductance issue. The 1804a has very fine 28awg conductors.  That low inductance is a somewhat different approach compared to many of the cables in use.  I've wondered how it would work for ICs.

I'm also still trying to settle on some good RCAs for IC projects.  My instinct is that the heavy RCAs with lots of metal mass aren't a good idea.  I wonder if some of cheap ones that are mostly plastic wouldn't actually be better than a lot of those. Obviously, you can spend pretty goofy money on RCAs.  That's especially true if you want to build a few cables to compare. I find it very ironic that we only spend about $2 on XLRs.  Granted, those are balanced cables so the characteristics are different. But I don't think the balanced config changes that connector issues all that much.

I have a bunch of cables to make (rca-rca IC, rca-xlr IC, mic cables)...  FWIW, schoeps active cable is some pretty trick custom stuff and it is not silver clad.

Offline poorlyconditioned

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2005, 02:04:58 PM »
I'm still looking for good silver clad for ICs, mic cables, etc.. But I'm stuck on the audio quality bit and knowing that 'silver clad' != good sound.  I also feel that you can't read the specs for a cable and know that it will sound better than cable that was specifically engineered and tested for use as mic cable, etc.

Another factor.. The quad connect that is good for mic cables may not be ideal for ICs.

Then there is the whole inductance issue. The 1804a has very fine 28awg conductors.  That low inductance is a somewhat different approach compared to many of the cables in use.  I've wondered how it would work for ICs.

I'm also still trying to settle on some good RCAs for IC projects.  My instinct is that the heavy RCAs with lots of metal mass aren't a good idea.  I wonder if some of cheap ones that are mostly plastic wouldn't actually be better than a lot of those. Obviously, you can spend pretty goofy money on RCAs.  That's especially true if you want to build a few cables to compare. I find it very ironic that we only spend about $2 on XLRs.  Granted, those are balanced cables so the characteristics are different. But I don't think the balanced config changes that connector issues all that much.

I have a bunch of cables to make (rca-rca IC, rca-xlr IC, mic cables)...  FWIW, schoeps active cable is some pretty trick custom stuff and it is not silver clad.


I've seen schematics for the Schoeps actives (over at micbuilders Yahoo groups).  It is several concentric connectors.  I think signal (unbalanced) in the middle, then return, then 60V, then shield, or something like that.  It is different than mic phantom power where a twisted pair floats at the phantom voltage.  Anyhow, be careful with those Scheops actives.  They're certainly not standard cables!

  Richard
Mics: Sennheiser MKE2002 (dummy head), Studio Projects C4, AT825 (unmodded), AT822 franken mic (x2), AT853(hc,c,sc,o), Senn. MKE2, Senn MKE40, Shure MX183/5, CA Cards, homebrew Panasonic and Transsound capsules.
Pre/ADC: Presonus Firepod & Firebox, DMIC20(x2), UA5(poorly-modded, AD8620+AD8512opamps), VX440
Recorders: Edirol R4, R09, IBM X24 laptop, NJB3(x2), HiMD(x2), MD(1).
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Silver clad cable recommendations?
« Reply #61 on: December 26, 2005, 05:46:23 PM »
I'll probably be ordering 1000 feet just for myself. 

Which stuff are you referring to?  The cable from ebay?

Yup, the ebay stuff I'm offering.  That guy who's link I posted above does not sell his mil-spec cable on ebay afaik.  I'm sure that 1K feet would get the price down fairly low.   I spke with the guys and 500ft was the next price break but I didn't ask because I didn't want that much.


Freelunch,

I agree that specs won't tell the entire story but there are material and construction traits that consistantly appear in the cables reported to be of good audio quality.  Starting with that should be a safe bet for most applications in light of all the anecdotal reports found here and it's cheap enough to try and not really lose anything.
The first rule of amateur neurosurgery club is .... I forget.

 

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