Topic: Total Playback Newb, seeking wisdom

[Matt Quinn]

 

Well, my rig is finally where I want it, so it's time to delve into the important part of audio - playback. 


I really know nothing about playback systems. I currently use an Onkyo all in one 7.1 set up, but I only have the mains & sub plugged in, as 99% of my listening is 2 channel. I'm just looking to build a solid 2 channel playback system, and hopefully learn something about how they work in the meantime. To that end, I'd love any FAQ type websites about this stuff, if anyone has good links. i checked the Playback archive here, but it's a little lacking.

I can't give a budget just yet, I'm more in the research phase right now.

Thanks!

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I want to upgrade to these:

http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd302brc.shtml
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html

I'm running an old Sony ES Pre and B&K ST-140 Amp right now...

Terry

[BC]

Get the best speakers you can afford. Some good brands to consider are:

Not sure what your budget is, but some good speaker brands to consider are:

Paradigm
PSB
NHT
Von Schweikert
Monitor audio
B&W
Magnepan
Martin Logan
JM lab/focal
KEF
Epos
Sololoquy
Splendor
Joseph Audio

[Matt Quinn]

OK, can we step back to basics for a sec?


Let's talk parts.  For instance we all know a recording rig goes mics>preamp>a>d>recorder.

With playback, I believe there is both a preamp & and amp? What is the difference in function? Are both necessary?

So source>(pre?)amplifier>speakers? 



If I upgrade speakers, how do I know they will work with my receiver? 

I need to (and plan on) doing some reading on speaker technology, just looking for a general cheat sheet on what to pay atention to.....

[RebelRebel]

OK, can we step back to basics for a sec?


Let's talk parts.  For instance we all know a recording rig goes mics>preamp>a>d>recorder.

With playback, I believe there is both a preamp & and amp? What is the difference in function? Are both necessary?

So source>(pre?)amplifier>speakers? 



If I upgrade speakers, how do I know they will work with my receiver? 

I need to (and plan on) doing some reading on speaker technology, just looking for a general cheat sheet on what to pay atention to.....

I like the integrated route better than seperates.


I want to throw two brands of speakers in the ring as well..


The usher audio "tiny dancer" http://6moons.com/audioreviews/usher2/tinydancer.html

and the speakers which I have just purchased, the Audio Kinesis Jazz Modules  truly amazing speakers..

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=52153.0

http://www.audiofederation.com/hifiing/2007/CES2007/report/high-end-audio/the-show/part3/IMG_7419.jpg

I wanted to venture out and see some brands that were outside of the mainstream a bit and I couldnt be happier with my decision. I had VSA VR-4s and B+W 802s before these, but they pale in comparison.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

With playback, I believe there is both a preamp & and amp? What is the difference in function? Are both necessary?

The Pre-Amp is the part where the audio goes in.  Its usually a device that let's you switch between the various inputs and have it all go to one output.  It's the part that has the Tape/CD/Tuner knob on it.  It also controls gain (volume knob).  Some Pre-Amps have A>D and D>A Converters.  Others are strictly analog.

The Amplifier is just that.  It takes the Pre-Amp output and amplifies it to a point where it is usable by a speaker. 

The modern day "Stereo Receiver" combines the 2x parts above, and usually comes with a Tuner. 

The Jolida unit I posted above is both PreAmp and Amp. 

T

[Matt Quinn]

I like the integrated route better than seperates.

THANK YOU Teddy!

That is what I need to get started on reading. +t


And thanks Terry...... +t as well.


So I take it from this diagram, if you are going to be using strictly digital signals, a preamp is not required? So I should start with a solid DAC?

[RebelRebel]

http://www.hifibooks.com/heaudio.html

that book is great too, (and can be found on ebay for less than 10 bucks)

he goes over the basics really well.

[Tim]

So I take it from this diagram, if you are going to be using strictly digital signals, a preamp is not required? So I should start with a solid DAC?

Possibly. You'd need a DAC that could provide some gain control. There are some out there that would work for this and some that would not. I know there are folks on this board who have done just what you propose

I think a good DAC is a great idea anyway if you want to listen from your computer. You can run digi out of your cpu to the dac, or stream to a SqueezeBox and run digi out of there into the dac

do a search for squeezebox on here if that's not a piece of gear you are familiar with

also a note on terminology, if the pre and the amp are in one unit that is referred to as an "integrated" amplified. This was sort of mentioned earlier but I wanted to make sure it was clear.

[Nick's Picks]

solid easy investment that will leave you very pleased.
Music Hall MAMBO.

its a great DAC and integrated amp.  basically, its a receiver w/o a tuner.  Class A (means it is providing quality watts and not carring about how efficiently it uses electricity to do so).

any crappy CD player, SB3...anything w/a digital output ...will plug directly into it via coax or toslink.  no cables to worry about.
then just pick your speaker flavor.
what do you want out of your system ?
total accuracy of what you feed it ?
big dynamics (tons of bass and the ability to go from low end to creamy high end in style)
huge sound stage, imaging ... ?

love the mambo.  can't beat if for the $$
and BUY USED.  you'll be able to flip the gear around as you want w/o loosing money.  or, at least much money.

www.audiogon.com
search on the first two digits of your zip code (advanced search) for "pickup only" deals.
the Von Schweikert line of speakers is highly regarded and popular here among us tapers.  they do justice to what we do w/our hobby.  and they are affordable.
the VR2 is very, very hard to beat at its price point.  for $2k I bet you could get those and a mambo.  You'd be in hog heaven w/o any upgrade bug desire for a long time.

[Nick's Picks]

also...
go demo gear.  go to a tweeter (they have martin logan, jmlabs/focal / sonus faber...among others).

another recommendation would be the Cambridge audio integrated amps.  they sound very decent and would make for a pleasing starter system.

dont listen to the Logans first though.  way too infectious and nothing measures up to them (on certain levels).

[Tim]

The MAMBO is solid advice. I think Sanjay has one that he likes...

[RebelRebel]

So I take it from this diagram, if you are going to be using strictly digital signals, a preamp is not required? So I should start with a solid DAC?

Possibly. You'd need a DAC that could provide some gain control. There are some out there that would work for this and some that would not. I know there are folks on this board who have done just what you propose

I think a good DAC is a great idea anyway if you want to listen from your computer. You can run digi out of your cpu to the dac, or stream to a SqueezeBox and run digi out of there into the dac

do a search for squeezebox on here if that's not a piece of gear you are familiar with

also a note on terminology, if the pre and the amp are in one unit that is referred to as an "integrated" amplified. This was sort of mentioned earlier but I wanted to make sure it was clear.

and if you are looking for an amazing DAC for decent pricing, I suggest the mytek stereo 96.

mytekdigital.com (samples are on the site)

[Sanjay]

The MAMBO is solid advice. I think Sanjay has one that he likes...

i love it...

[kskreider]

Since you never mentioned a budget might I suggest a pair of Merlin VSMs as the speakers?   

Seriously though, I would start with a small budget and just get some good used scores off of audiogon.

[Stagger]

also...
go demo gear.  go to a tweeter (they have martin logan, jmlabs/focal / sonus faber...among others).

another recommendation would be the Cambridge audio integrated amps.  they sound very decent and would make for a pleasing starter system.

dont listen to the Logans first though.  way too infectious and nothing measures up to them (on certain levels).

Tweeter does not deal with Sumiko (Sounus Faber and Vienna Acoustics distributor) so no SF.

[Nick's Picks]

ah well.
they used to.

[Matt Quinn]

then just pick your speaker flavor.
what do you want out of your system ?
total accuracy of what you feed it ?

Yeah, pretty much. Looking for as neutral a speaker as possible, at least at first.


Thanks everyone, I've got some reading to do, but I will bump this thread when I have more questions.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I'd like to add one more thing:  when you audition gear, take some material you recorded with your rig and that you have listened to many times.

In my case, DPA4023 and MK41 sourced tapes sound good with my current playback system (VSA VR4jr and CJ gear) but MK4 sourced tapes tend toward lifeless.  Neumann and AKG sound very good, sometimes more appealing than the DPAs. When I was using Thiels with CJ, the Neumann and AKG tapes leaned toward bright, DPA and MK41 were sweet and the MK4 tapes sounded less dark than with my current speakers.  Best case is you audition for a week in the room where you expect to use the system.