Author Topic: Any recorders that can index on the fly and make a cue file? (Read 6296 times)

runonce · « **on:** October 19, 2009, 05:56:45 PM »

Im becoming very lazy about post these days...even though generally all it takes is CDwave tracking...

Kinda wish for a recorder that would let me index on the fly - and save the tracking as a .cue file.

Then I'd just open the master wav in CDwave...open the cue...adjust if necessary...and save.

Not a huge time saver...but wouldnt hurt.

Do any of the newer recorders support something like this?

mr qpl · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2009, 07:55:14 PM »

d50 sets tracks

runonce · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2009, 08:08:44 PM »

Quote from: mr qpl on October 19, 2009, 07:55:14 PM

d50 sets tracks

Thanks - that looks like it divides tracks on the fly...that actually might cause more problems than it solves.

Im really looking for something that just makes a .cue file...rather than actually tracking.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2009, 11:52:06 PM »

I have a vague recollection that the HD-P2 and/or 722 will set track markers within a single WAV. Your editing software may or may not recognize the track markers. Dunno about CD-Wave. Mine did, if I recall (either Audition or Samplitude SE). Sorry I can't be more definitive...it's only a foggy memory at this point, as I never really used the feature.

page · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2009, 12:16:34 AM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on October 19, 2009, 11:52:06 PM

I have a vague recollection that the HD-P2 and/or 722 will set track markers within a single WAV. Your editing software may or may not recognize the track markers. Dunno about CD-Wave. Mine did, if I recall (either Audition or Samplitude SE). Sorry I can't be more definitive...it's only a foggy memory at this point, as I never really used the feature.

The 7xx series will do markers in the metadata layer. Finding something to read that stuff is beyond my experience though. Pages 10/12, 31, and 62 in the 722 manual.

digifish_music · « **Reply #5 on:** October 20, 2009, 04:22:21 AM »

Edirol R44 allows you to set index points in the wav file as you go. Press the 'Mark' button (10)

digifish

dogmusic · « **Reply #6 on:** October 20, 2009, 09:34:08 AM »

The Sony M10 has a Track Mark (T-MARK) button which will mark a spot without dividing the track.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #7 on:** October 20, 2009, 09:49:31 AM »

As digifish mentions, the R44 like other recorders listed here, creates markers within the file metadata -this funtion was supposedly fixed with the last firmware update (before that most software wasn't recognizing the markers) but I have not used it. The other way is recorders that seamlessly split the file and start a new one like the R-09 and others.

I don't know of any that write a seperate cue file. What I'd really like a cue file that lists any gain changes made during the recording as well as general time markers.

page · « **Reply #8 on:** October 20, 2009, 10:22:56 AM »

Quote from: Gutbucket on October 20, 2009, 09:49:31 AM

As digifish mentions, the R44 like other recorders listed here, creates markers within the file metadata -this funtion was supposedly fixed with the last firmware update (before that most software wasn't recognizing the markers) but I have not used it. The other way is recorders that seamlessly split the file and start a new one like the R-09 and others.

I don't know of any that write a seperate cue file. What I'd really like a cue file that lists any gain changes made during the recording as well as general time markers.

you might be able to export the markers once you load the file into an editor, but other then that, I agree that I can't think of one that writes a separate file.

batchain · « **Reply #9 on:** October 21, 2009, 03:31:09 PM »

You can set cue points on the FR2-LE.

twatts (pants are so over-rated...) · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2009, 11:22:20 PM »

While its not exactly marking tracks within a single WAV, you may be able to hit FF (if you can make new track without any loss) and make your tracks that way.

Once, when I was taping Ween, I was getting close to the 2hr. limit on the JB3. Rather than have it cut over to the new track in the middle of a song, I hit FF and started a new track for that last few songs. Basically, I made a CD cut. Later when I used CDWave, I kept that particular cut, since it was at the end of the encore break...

The JB3 didn't mark tracks, but you could hit FF at any point and pretty much do the same thing... I don't own the JB3 anymore, I use an HDP2 now, but I bet you could do something similar with almost any deck.

Terry

runonce · « **Reply #11 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:49:27 AM »

Quote from: batchain on October 21, 2009, 03:31:09 PM

You can set cue points on the FR2-LE.

Does a program like CDwave recognize these?

Giant_Rick · « **Reply #12 on:** October 22, 2009, 10:53:15 AM »

Just a related question: can doing 'track mark' on a minidisc recorder create some SBE errors?

runonce · « **Reply #13 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:00:20 AM »

Thanks for the responses. Just to be clear - I dont want to TRACK on the fly...that would make things even harder IMO.

I just want to add makers (or whatever they might be called) - like the old Sony DAT machines...quickly press the record button and it would add a marker.

I still want the show/set as one big wav.

Im happy with any method...be it metadata or whatever. As long as you end up with markers when you open it in CDwave. I just mentioned a "cue" sheet as an example.

I figure, if I can set most of the markers right on the fly - the few that might get by (like a segue) can be fixed with minimal effort(once open in CDwave). And thus save some time in post.

If anyone has the time to experiment with their R44 or FR2LE - I would appreciate it. Those sound promising...

Thanks!

darby · « **Reply #14 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:21:35 AM »

the problem with indexing on the fly is the placement of the markers
if you are doing 44.1 to burn as CDs then they may not be on Sector Boundaries

just like the old days of burning CDs directly off DAT with a standalone CD recorder

runonce · « **Reply #15 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:40:19 AM »

Quote from: darby on October 22, 2009, 11:21:35 AM

the problem with indexing on the fly is the placement of the markers
if you are doing 44.1 to burn as CDs then they may not be on Sector Boundaries

just like the old days of burning CDs directly off DAT with a standalone CD recorder

I think you're still missing the idea here...

If the markers import into CDwave - thats the program that will do the actual track splitting...and the tracks will be, hence, SBE free (thats the whole reason for using CDwave, correct?)

the bit depth shouldn't be an issue...

darby · « **Reply #16 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:09:07 PM »

no... I think you're missing the idea
how hard is it to open a WAV file and split tracks?
and I'm talking about sampling rate, not bit depth
if you are doing anything but 16/44.1 then SBEs are a non issue
but alot of folks here still burn to CD, I generally don't
if you have to open your file in CDWave or whatever and align SBEs
then why worry about having markers

page · « **Reply #17 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:30:40 PM »

Quote from: darby on October 22, 2009, 01:09:07 PM

no... I think you're missing the idea
how hard is it to open a WAV file and split tracks?

To do it correctly? half the time of the performance (on average for me). Now, if the OP wants to do it during the show to get an idea and then just line up the starts later, that might shave the time down to a quarter in post, if you don't care how precise the markers are, then it would be load and render (so virtually no time spent tracking). While I personally wouldn't bother during a regular show, I'd think about it during a festival (I have tracked out maybe half of my stuff from FloydFest this year...).

runonce · « **Reply #18 on:** October 22, 2009, 01:43:23 PM »

Quote from: darby on October 22, 2009, 01:09:07 PM

no... I think you're missing the idea
how hard is it to open a WAV file and split tracks?

Not that hard. But if Im standing there at the show. And the band is between songs and I can write the cue then and there just by pushing a button - I will. It'll save me - maybe 10 minutes of post work per set. Sometimes more, sometimes less. But Im gettin old - gotta cut corners!

Quote from: darby on October 22, 2009, 01:09:07 PM

and I'm talking about sampling rate, not bit depth
if you are doing anything but 16/44.1 then SBEs are a non issue
but alot of folks here still burn to CD, I generally don't

It shouldn't matter. If this meta tracking info can be imported to CDwave. Then it can then be saved as a cue sheet. I think you can downsample and use the same cue sheet to cut the 16 bit version if need be.

Quote from: darby on October 22, 2009, 01:09:07 PM

if you have to open your file in CDWave or whatever and align SBEs
then why worry about having markers

Not sure I understand. Im opening the master to cut it into tracks - not to "aling SBEs" - CDwave will automatically cut at the proper SBE.
Ideally, most of the makers will already be there. If I have to add or move 1 or 2, no problem.

Admittedly - this is not a major timesaver. Just a small modification to a tried and true routine. If my recorder had this feature, Id use it.

It seems a few recorders mentioned had some cueing info features. I guess the next question is what software understands that feature?

digifish_music · « **Reply #19 on:** October 23, 2009, 11:50:35 PM »

Quote from: runonce on October 22, 2009, 11:00:20 AM

If anyone has the time to experiment with their R44 or FR2LE - I would appreciate it. Those sound promising...

Thanks!

Here is an Edirol R44 stereo WAV recording 44.1 kHz/24 bit with 4 x markers over the course of the track.

www.digifishmusic.com/public/sounds/R44_44kHz_24bit_Markers.wav

It's about 5 Meg. See if they show in your package.

digifish

Ozpeter · « **Reply #20 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:46:05 PM »

Even with the latest firmware, the R44 marking system still works on the basis of having 99 markers preset for each file, placed at the beginning of every file. When you place a marker during a recording, the current time is added to the data for the next available marker. So if you place four markers, in your editing software you will probably see 95 markers at zero time, and 4 markers at the times you pressed the button. They also show in most other software.

The markers show in Reaper, which is an excellent tool for post-processing live recordings. If you want to get rid of the markers that the R44 parks at the beginning of each file, in Reaper you can simply shorten the left edge of the clip by a tiny amount, so that the markers on the original left edge no longer show up (they're off the left end now).

There is a command in Reaper to convert the markers currently showing in clips to project markers (instantly), and you can then go through and give these project markers names (eg the titles of the songs). Using a little utility called "ReaBurn" (written by yours truly, google will find it) you can then automatically create a cue sheet which includes these named markers and burn a CD with appropriate CD text.

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #21 on:** November 28, 2009, 12:44:21 AM »

I use R44 markers for gain changes only, makes them easier to find in post (I used to write down the time code on a piece of paper). I track after the fact, I find that so much easier to place exactly where I want them. But everyone's got their own style for this kind of thing...