Topic: Internals: DR2D vs H2n

[skern49]

Hi all,

This is my last topic regarding my near-debilitating indecisiveness, I swear!

How do the internal mics of these two recorders compare, in terms of sound quality and setup flexibility? I will be recording rehearsals of bands and solo instrumentalists. I will not be recording at gigs.

Clearly the H2n is more flexible, but from reading these forums I've gotten the impression that the M/S stuff is used mainly for broadcasting and interviews and whatnot. Which leaves the 90-degree X/Y stereo and the nifty surround sound option. I couldn't find any information on the mic setup of the DR2D (besides that they're cardioids). Should I assume it's also 90-degree X/Y stereo? If so, can anybody say anything about how the sound quality of the two recorders compare assuming the same mic configuration (90-degree) is used?

Thus the last remaining question is, how useful is the surround sound option? If I'm recording arrangements of musicians that lie somewhere between a semi circle and a full circle, would it give me a better recording if I had the option of placing the recorder in the middle and using surround sound? Or would placing it a little ways off and using the 90-degree configuration be just as good/better? Or should I say to hell with cardioids and go with the DR-05 and its omni mics?

Thank you,
Sasha

[skern49]

Up!

[daspyknows]

None of the above.  Get a set of mics to use with whatever bit bucket you choose

[skern49]

None of the above.  Get a set of mics to use with whatever bit bucket you choose

I know that external mics would give me better sound quality, however I'm looking for ease and quickness of use/setup and minimal things to carry around.

[Gutbucket]

If you must use only the internals for rehersal type things, I've heard some decent recordings using the cardioids on the H2n.. so in your case I'd be tempted to go that way, even though it is not a very popular choice for most of the recordind done around here  I've never used my DR2d internals for this so I don't know how they'd compare.  I would choose directional built-in mics and not internal omnis, which are simply not setup to work well on such a small machine. 

Just to be clear, the cardioids on the DR2d are not X/Y coincident and I don't know of many built-ins that actually have truely coincident mcis, except for some of the Zooms, most are near spaced and somewhere between X/Y and the popular setups used around here with a bit more spacing between external mics, but that's all academic and not as important as the quality of the mics themselves.

The surround option might sound very good if you are only recording for yourself and your own enjoyment, but the files will be difficult to share, and even if you can people won't know what to do with them or how to play them.  Mixing down to stereo form the multichanel files can be tricky as well, but if you enjoy the challenge, you might give it a try.  I'd avoid the built-in surround option if your target is a stereo file without too much work that anyone can playback.. and I say all that as one of the few around here that record in multichannel surround.

[Ozpeter]

Trouble is, you're looking for a reply from someone who has a good working knowledge of both recorders, and I rather suspect nobody here has. [Cross posted with Gutbucket who seems to have them both!  Hah!]

I'm familiar with the H2N at least, as you know.

Don't be worried about the H2N M/S option.  It's just a stereo recording at the end of the day, having the merit that the supposed focus of the sound at the centre has a mic pointing directly at it, rather than having two mics pointing their off-axis lobes at it.   Meanwhile the "side" mic is perhaps capturing the room sound more directly and also pointing its axis at anything of interest to the extreme left and right.  In the context of musicians performing in a semicircle around it it could be a good choice, but that's not a normal audience perspective.

Recording from all the mics of the H2N to two stereo tracks gives you some flexibility in post production.  You could use both pairs, or one or the other, according to circumstances.  If you have recorded both pairs, you've at least got the option to choose later.

Recording using closely spaced omni mics never produces a good stereo image and is therefore best avoided if stereo image is important to you.

[Ozpeter]

The surround option might sound very good if you are only recording for yourself and your own enjoyment, but the files will be difficult to share, and even if you can people won't know what to do with them or how to play them.  Mixing down to stereo form the multichanel files can be tricky as well, but if you enjoy the challenge, you might give it a try.  I'd avoid the built-in surround option if your target is a stereo file without too much work that anyone can playback.. and I say all that as one of the few around here that record in multichannel surround.

Just to be clear, the H2N records two stereo files, not multichannel files.  These can very easily be mixed in almost any multitrack audio software, eg Audacity.

[skern49]

Thanks for your help, guys.

I think I'm gonna finally bite the bucket and order the H2n. As was mentioned, I'm hoping for input from someone who has A-B'ed the internals of the H2n and DR2D, and that person probably doesn't exist. So it comes down to features, and even though I'm not so excited about the seeming fragility of the all-plastic H2n, I think it makes the most sense for me.

[Teen Age Riot]

A friend of mine uses the H2n internals to record band rehearsals and the results are so good that I was shocked the first time I heard them. They're reherasing in a good sounding room, so that reaffirms that it's all about mic placement and acoustics. (Would Neumann or Schoeps or MBHOs sounded better? Probably.)

I have the DR-2d myself. The internal mics sound a bit bright to me. They're okay for song sketches and the like, but I wouldn't use them for anything too critical. For example, if you're recording a well balanced board feed and you just need a little ambience to make it more lively, I wouldn't have a problem using them.

[Ozpeter]

Would Neumann or Schoeps or MBHOs sounded better? Probably.

Probably indeed but you might be able to tweak the H2N sound to fool some of the people some of time - see the following thread with example (hopefully non-members of that forum can play it) -

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/672381-thank-heavens-hand-held-recordist-there-today.html?highlight=h2n

[Teen Age Riot]

Very interesting.
Thanks for the link!

[HarpDoc]

I have the DR2D and it's fine for band practices (I'm sure either would be). Handles loud volume OK with internals.

Nice thing about the DR2D is the 4 track recording, which I use for our gigs. I run spaced omnis into>Church Audio preamp>DR2D mic input. Put the mics low, just in front of band so they pick up instruments but very little vocals, since the PA speakers are further out front. Then I run vocals from the mixer into the line-in of the DR2D. It's a simple setup and makes it easy to get a nice live recording in which the level of vocals can be perfectly matched to the rest of the mix, and the chatter from the audience is not overwhelming since the mics are in front of them.

[daspyknows]

None of the above.  Get a set of mics to use with whatever bit bucket you choose

I know that external mics would give me better sound quality, however I'm looking for ease and quickness of use/setup and minimal things to carry around.

My 12 year old can run the DR-2B with CA-14 Cardiods with 9100 preamp.  If you are going to go through the effort to record a gig, might as well put in a little more effort for a better recording IMHO

[easyed]

I am contemplating getting a DR2D and am unclear on whether it can do what I want.

I want to record four tracks, 2 from external mics and 2 from line in.  I do not want to use internal mics.  I would like to be able to mix (in post after the recording is finished, not live) how much of the external mics and how much of the line in is in the recording.  I have software to do this, I just need to know if the DR2D can record, independently and simultaneously, from external mics and line in.  And I need to be able to mix how much of each in post.

Anybody tested this?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

[Gutbucket]

That's how most of us are using it, Ed.  It's the entire reason for being of this recorder as far as I'm concerned.