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Author Topic: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)  (Read 137603 times)

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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #405 on: September 02, 2021, 09:27:18 PM »

Bumping this post for the people in the market for a new deck. The F6 can now truly be considered a professional recorder with the latest firmware, and IMHO it represents a much better value than the SD MixPre-II recorders. The only thing the MPII's have the advantage in is accepting a hotter input level, which in practice will not be an issue unless you are feeding it VERY hot line levels or recording very loud sources with extremely sensitive mics.

You won't be disappointed with one of these.

So I've been looking at this deck as an upgrade to a tascam 70D...what would be the benefits in favor for the F6 over the 70D that would justify the cost? I only require max 4 channels max at a top end of 24/48 as a field recorder. Thanks. Chris K.

As someone who used to own the DR-70D, I can tell you the F6 is a huge upgrade in every aspect. The preamps of the F6 are far more transparent, much lower noise, the build quality is much higher, 6 XLR inputs instead of 4, more versatile powering options, timecode, etc. The "killer feature" is the 32-bit FP recording with multiple ADCs, so you never need to set levels or worry about limiters (in 99% of applications). Whether or not all that is worth the price depends on what you are recording.

For me, I only do acoustic / classical ensembles; very limited PA if at all. Mostly choirs, piano, and small instrumental groups, but sometimes orchestras and concert bands also. The preamps make a very noticeable difference for me, but it's the multi-ADC / 32FP end of things that makes my life so much easier. Most of the music I record has a very wide dynamic range, and I sometimes am not able to set levels ahead of time at a rehearsal. I am very often performing or conducting the things I record, making this even more reassuring. On the 70D, I would deal with this by recording a second set of safety tracks at -12 dB, but then that would limit me to 2-channel recording. Limiters (especially the type used on the 70D) sound awful for the type of music I record so that's a no-go. No need to worry about any of that with the F6.

If you are recording loud, amplified concerts and do not need more than 4 mic inputs then there probably isn't much reason to move on from your 70D. It's a solid deck.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
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Acoustic Recording Techniques
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Offline edsunman

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #406 on: September 14, 2021, 10:35:37 AM »
Hi guys, I hope this is the right place on the forum for this...

I've just recently noticed a problem with my F6 not switching between Line and Mic level on the first 3 inputs. I've installed latest firmware and performed factory reset but no change.

Here is and example of the problem : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIl7LL-Zyk

The problem persists in both 24 bit and 32 bit modes.

Can anyone work out what is going on? Have I missed an obvious setting or is the device faulty? Thanks in advance for any help!

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #407 on: September 14, 2021, 09:32:26 PM »
Hi guys, I hope this is the right place on the forum for this...

I've just recently noticed a problem with my F6 not switching between Line and Mic level on the first 3 inputs. I've installed latest firmware and performed factory reset but no change.

Here is and example of the problem : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIl7LL-Zyk

The problem persists in both 24 bit and 32 bit modes.

Can anyone work out what is going on? Have I missed an obvious setting or is the device faulty? Thanks in advance for any help!

That is really strange. I'm out for a few days, but maybe this weekend I'll hook up a line source to mine and see if I can replicate the issue. Hopefully Zoom support has some advice for you.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #408 on: September 19, 2021, 10:09:20 AM »
Anyone having trouble with the date and time not being retained during power off? I have noticed this to be an issue since the 1.70 firmware update, but it's possible it was there beforehand.

I have fully charged AA's internal and fully charged NP batteries mounted, and it still prompts me to reset the date and time at each power up. All other settings I have made are retained.

I sent a support email to Zoom, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
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Team DPA

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #409 on: September 20, 2021, 07:52:07 PM »
Anyone having trouble with the date and time not being retained during power off? I have noticed this to be an issue since the 1.70 firmware update, but it's possible it was there beforehand.

I have fully charged AA's internal and fully charged NP batteries mounted, and it still prompts me to reset the date and time at each power up. All other settings I have made are retained.

I sent a support email to Zoom, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.

Response from Zoom customer support:

Quote
I would recommend plugging your device with the AC adapter and powering it ON. Once this is done, leave it like this overnight.

This should resolve the issue you are experiencing.

We will see what happens.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #410 on: September 23, 2021, 05:31:39 PM »
^ Rep's advice worked. All good.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
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Offline Karl

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #411 on: October 06, 2021, 10:09:26 PM »
OK, here are my test results from RMAA with both the 1.50 and 1.70 firmware.

- RMAA generated a 32-bit FP / 192 kHz test file
- Connected MOTU M2 line out to F6 channels 1&2 with balanced TRS>XLR patch cables
- M2 output level set to max
- Played test file in Foobar while recording on F6 at 32-bit float / 192 kHz
- Recorded file from F6 transferred to PC and analyzed in RMAA to generate report
- These tests were NOT done in the same sitting, but conditions were identical


When looking at the Frequency Response data, make sure you scroll down to compare the 20 Hz - 20 kHz numbers in both documents, and not just the 40 Hz - 15 kHz numbers.

I find it curious that the noise floor in the new firmware is a bit higher, when performance is otherwise improved in other areas, especially the LF noise. I suppose there are always tradeoffs when choosing filters.
PDF files are below.

F6 1.50
F6 1.70

Bumping this post for the people in the market for a new deck. The F6 can now truly be considered a professional recorder with the latest firmware, and IMHO it represents a much better value than the SD MixPre-II recorders. The only thing the MPII's have the advantage in is accepting a hotter input level, which in practice will not be an issue unless you are feeding it VERY hot line levels or recording very loud sources with extremely sensitive mics.

You won't be disappointed with one of these.

Thank you for your work on this! Good stuff!

I was also having the date/time issue. Good to know as well.
My portable rig:

AT853>Zoom F6

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #412 on: October 07, 2021, 08:55:26 PM »
I was also having the date/time issue. Good to know as well.

There must be some sort of rechargeable battery on the main board that keeps the clock running, like a CMOS battery on a PC. I would have thought it would replenish as needed from internal AAs or the NP batteries, but apparently it only recharges from USB.

My earlier comment about all the other settings being retained now makes sense in retrospect: Those settings are not stored in internal memory, but in a file on the SD card.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Offline Karl

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #413 on: October 08, 2021, 11:20:25 AM »
Yep! Or more likely a capacitor that needs to be refilled every so often. It would be nice to know how long it needs to be on when powering from USB (more specific than "overnight!"). And how long it should last before being refilled again.
My portable rig:

AT853>Zoom F6

Offline morst

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #414 on: October 08, 2021, 02:29:48 PM »

Sony PCM-M10 does the same thing if you leave it powered off for a year or more!
The internal clock won't stay set until you leave it powered up for a while.



Anyone having trouble with the date and time not being retained during power off? I have noticed this to be an issue since the 1.70 firmware update, but it's possible it was there beforehand.

I have fully charged AA's internal and fully charged NP batteries mounted, and it still prompts me to reset the date and time at each power up. All other settings I have made are retained.

I sent a support email to Zoom, but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone else has seen this issue.

Response from Zoom customer support:

Quote
I would recommend plugging your device with the AC adapter and powering it ON. Once this is done, leave it like this overnight.

This should resolve the issue you are experiencing.

We will see what happens.
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #415 on: October 09, 2021, 08:42:36 AM »
Yep! Or more likely a capacitor that needs to be refilled every so often. It would be nice to know how long it needs to be on when powering from USB (more specific than "overnight!"). And how long it should last before being refilled again.

Funny how this wasn't an issue at all until the pandemic and I had no concerts to record for over a year. I always leave my SD card in my unit, and connect the F6 to my PC to transfer files after a concert. Perhaps those brief periods of connection to USB were enough to charge the battery or capacitor. When I had no recordings to transfer, I had no reason to connect the F6 for long periods of time.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Offline SoundPete

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #416 on: February 24, 2022, 02:31:42 AM »
Hi everyone. I am new in the community and hoping for your help!
I switched from a mixpre 10 ii to a zoom f6 due to size and weight.
Unfortunately I get audio jumps in my recordings when using dual record 32 bit and 24 bit - six channel recording without the mix.
Audio is shifted about a minute from then on, and stays out of sync until the next file is created and cannot be synced via timecode anymore.
There has been no warning in the recorder while recording, you can only see it when you try to sync the files.
Did this happen to anyone else?
I have five sandisk extreme pro cards - four 128gb and one 256gb - all of them v30.
They work fine for recording UHD Video with 100mbit so i thought they will work in the f6 as well.
I tested them on my mac with F3X swift and they worked all fine, but in the full test in the f6 they all failed.
Now I ordered a Lexar Professional 1667x 128gb v60 and its exactly the same: It fails the full test in the recorder.
Does this happen to anyone else?
Did anyone have those audio jumps and did anyone try those cards in a test?
Very similar cards are in the recommended card lists of zoom and those cards can be purchased in a bundle with the recorder, so I guess they should be fine.
And: Can the Zoom take advantage of UHS II cards?
Does the cards reader support UHS II?
Even the Lexar v60 UHS II seems to run at about 33 percent of maximum write speed most of the time in the test until it fails - just like the sandisk v30 UHS I.
So I guess write speed is about the same in the recorder and there is a problem with the sd card reader of the recorder.
Did anyone experience the same???
Thanks for your help!

Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #417 on: February 24, 2022, 06:34:25 PM »
Hi everyone. I am new in the community and hoping for your help!
I switched from a mixpre 10 ii to a zoom f6 due to size and weight.
Unfortunately I get audio jumps in my recordings when using dual record 32 bit and 24 bit - six channel recording without the mix.
Audio is shifted about a minute from then on, and stays out of sync until the next file is created and cannot be synced via timecode anymore.
There has been no warning in the recorder while recording, you can only see it when you try to sync the files.
Did this happen to anyone else?
I have five sandisk extreme pro cards - four 128gb and one 256gb - all of them v30.
They work fine for recording UHD Video with 100mbit so i thought they will work in the f6 as well.
I tested them on my mac with F3X swift and they worked all fine, but in the full test in the f6 they all failed.
Now I ordered a Lexar Professional 1667x 128gb v60 and its exactly the same: It fails the full test in the recorder.
Does this happen to anyone else?
Did anyone have those audio jumps and did anyone try those cards in a test?
Very similar cards are in the recommended card lists of zoom and those cards can be purchased in a bundle with the recorder, so I guess they should be fine.
And: Can the Zoom take advantage of UHS II cards?
Does the cards reader support UHS II?
Even the Lexar v60 UHS II seems to run at about 33 percent of maximum write speed most of the time in the test until it fails - just like the sandisk v30 UHS I.
So I guess write speed is about the same in the recorder and there is a problem with the sd card reader of the recorder.
Did anyone experience the same???
Thanks for your help!

Hi there! I have never heard of this problem, but my advice is to return what you have bought, and only use cards Zoom have tested and approved for use in the F6. Make sure the model numbers match exactly. These cards get revised all the time, and the "same" card from a different production run will not necessarily test the same.
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/F6_compatible_cards_E_0.pdf

You cannot go by any of the ratings on SD cards, because audio-only recorders such as these do not write data to these cards in quick bursts as photo/video devices do. If they did, the memory buffers for recording would have to be massive.

This is the card I bought with my F6, and I have had zero issues over 2+ years. I have not ever used the dual recording format mode, however I have done 6 channels of 32-bit FP with no problems.
It's no longer available on Amazon, but you may be able to find it elsewhere.
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Canvas-128GB-UHS-I100MB-SDR/dp/B079H4ZVWY

EDIT: I am actually having trouble finding any of the cards listed on the Zoom F6 tested list in stock. It's about time they updated this list.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2022, 06:48:09 PM by voltronic »
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Offline SoundPete

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #418 on: February 25, 2022, 05:53:21 AM »
Thanks for your help!
Its hard to find where to get this cards with exactly this model number as the model numbers mostly arent listed on amazon.
But from the pictures I see when I google the model number, all of my six cards should be in the approved list.
It should be four SDSDXPA-128G one SDSDXPA-256G and one LSD128CB1667.
There is a Facebook Post with exactly the same issue:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/zoomf8/posts/2964024483909364/
I have received a replacement units and all my cards fail as well, so I guess its a batch with defect card readers..

Hi everyone. I am new in the community and hoping for your help!
I switched from a mixpre 10 ii to a zoom f6 due to size and weight.
Unfortunately I get audio jumps in my recordings when using dual record 32 bit and 24 bit - six channel recording without the mix.
Audio is shifted about a minute from then on, and stays out of sync until the next file is created and cannot be synced via timecode anymore.
There has been no warning in the recorder while recording, you can only see it when you try to sync the files.
Did this happen to anyone else?
I have five sandisk extreme pro cards - four 128gb and one 256gb - all of them v30.
They work fine for recording UHD Video with 100mbit so i thought they will work in the f6 as well.
I tested them on my mac with F3X swift and they worked all fine, but in the full test in the f6 they all failed.
Now I ordered a Lexar Professional 1667x 128gb v60 and its exactly the same: It fails the full test in the recorder.
Does this happen to anyone else?
Did anyone have those audio jumps and did anyone try those cards in a test?
Very similar cards are in the recommended card lists of zoom and those cards can be purchased in a bundle with the recorder, so I guess they should be fine.
And: Can the Zoom take advantage of UHS II cards?
Does the cards reader support UHS II?
Even the Lexar v60 UHS II seems to run at about 33 percent of maximum write speed most of the time in the test until it fails - just like the sandisk v30 UHS I.
So I guess write speed is about the same in the recorder and there is a problem with the sd card reader of the recorder.
Did anyone experience the same???
Thanks for your help!

Hi there! I have never heard of this problem, but my advice is to return what you have bought, and only use cards Zoom have tested and approved for use in the F6. Make sure the model numbers match exactly. These cards get revised all the time, and the "same" card from a different production run will not necessarily test the same.
https://zoomcorp.com/media/documents/F6_compatible_cards_E_0.pdf

You cannot go by any of the ratings on SD cards, because audio-only recorders such as these do not write data to these cards in quick bursts as photo/video devices do. If they did, the memory buffers for recording would have to be massive.

This is the card I bought with my F6, and I have had zero issues over 2+ years. I have not ever used the dual recording format mode, however I have done 6 channels of 32-bit FP with no problems.
It's no longer available on Amazon, but you may be able to find it elsewhere.
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Canvas-128GB-UHS-I100MB-SDR/dp/B079H4ZVWY

EDIT: I am actually having trouble finding any of the cards listed on the Zoom F6 tested list in stock. It's about time they updated this list.

Offline SoundPete

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Re: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)
« Reply #419 on: February 25, 2022, 03:54:44 PM »
Tried out some old cheap cards. The only ones that pass the full test are the 16 gb ones. All other cards are 64 gb and more and fail. So I guess it must be overheating because of the long test routine.

 

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