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Offline macdaddy

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power cords
« on: February 24, 2005, 09:57:26 PM »
just rec'd these two cords...

Power Cord: 3 foot Type 2 with Marinco/WattGate connectors

Power Cord: 3 foot Type 1 with Marinco/WattGate connectors

i assume that the type 1 and 2 refer to the uses outlined by chris venhaus (i bought them from wayne at bolder cable from the clearance sale section.  i am using the type 1 feeds the DIP (the mensa has its own modified power supply), and the type 2 to feed the integrated tube amp ...

i hear more bass, and the upsampler sounds more neutral to me (but maybe it is just burning in :P)...

anybody else have any thoughts on the subject..?
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Offline BCostigan

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Re: power cords
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2005, 06:55:24 AM »
I must admit I'm skeptical of how much power cords can help without good circuits feeding them.  If you have a dedicated circuit(s) for your playback system I would think they would help.  If you live in an old house/apt and the circuit your playback is connected to is connected to a bunch of other receptacles in the house.....I wouldn't count on that power cord helping much. 

I've been meaning to run a circuit for my playback but seeing as I'm an electrician the last thing I want to do is electrical work when I get home! :P 
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Offline Tim

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Re: power cords
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2005, 10:11:24 AM »
now that I have my power conditioner I'm going to buck up and purchase some good power cords for a few of my components, I'm thinking of getting 1 to go from wall to power conditioner, one to go from dac to power conditioner, and maybe one for my amp to power conditioner... those things are expensive though!
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline cheshirecat

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Re: power cords
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2005, 10:31:44 AM »
I'm with Tim on this one.  My apt. building was built in the 1880s and my place was wired probably in the 1940s with fabric/copper BX cable, everything is on 2 circuits; kitchen on 1 20A line and 1.5 BR and living room on 1 15A line.  Its super ghetto, I swapped out the old 2 prong outlets so I could run a ground.  Basically my 2 channel is running along with everything else I own on the 1 15A circuit, forget about in the summer with the AC on there as well...

Certianly in my case a line conditioner is going to do more for me than any power cable upgrade (assuming you're running a decent cable already, I use Kobicon 16/3 in the gear I have rebuilt...  If you have your own home, you have a little more control over your power infrastructure and can tweak that as necessary before upgrading your power cable.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: power cords
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2005, 10:46:05 AM »
just rec'd these two cords...

i hear more bass, and the upsampler sounds more neutral to me (but maybe it is just burning in :P)...

anybody else have any thoughts on the subject..?


I built a couple of the venhaus cords.  Flavor 1 for my CAL sigma II and Flavor 2 for the main feed into the MR1200 conditioner.

I had the same initial results: more bass - deeper and louder.  I found that the bass bloom mellowed over about 50 hours of playback and the sound became more even: still deeper but not over emphasized like when the cords were new.

I know that conventional wisdom suggests that there should be no difference when the mains are crap and I was skeptical when I made my order, but similar results have been reported elsewhere so there is somethign going on.  Could be as simple as better rejection of noise.




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Offline Daryan

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Re: power cords
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2005, 02:08:29 PM »
It could be.  My condo was constructed in 1992, so I may be slightly better off.  I could hear a differnce in my xr-45 when I added a bolder Nitro Plus power cable to it, but I literally paid 70 bucks for it, so I was willing to give it a shot. 
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline JackoRoses

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Re: power cords
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2005, 02:15:37 PM »
there are even audiophile grade receptacles that you can switch out the outlet
with one of these suppose to help with the power as well..
here is one examples http://www.tweakshop.com/Acme.html
anyone try these out yet?
I have not progressed anywhere near there yet in components.
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Offline scervin

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Re: power cords
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2005, 03:23:20 PM »
now that I have my power conditioner I'm going to buck up and purchase some good power cords for a few of my components, I'm thinking of getting 1 to go from wall to power conditioner, one to go from dac to power conditioner, and maybe one for my amp to power conditioner... those things are expensive though!

Tim,
Is the Furutech really a power conditioner?  Or is it a glorified power strip?  It is labeled as having clean signal path, but does it offer a filter, surge protection, etc.  I know it does not operate like the PS Audio gear, but I'm still a little unclear as to how this is a power conditioner.  Chris mentions it is like the "Hot Box" but not as good.  I don't see any filters in the "Hot Box".  Can you get these as an upgrade??  Please clear this up for me as Chris is out of town I believe.

sc.

Offline Tim

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Re: power cords
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2005, 04:48:01 PM »
considering it has completely eliminated background noise in my system it is certainly more than a glorified power strip. Turn the amp on and ALL the way up, nothing coming out of the speaker.

I think it is not a traditional power conditioner.

Quote
Chris mentions it is like the "Hot Box" but not as good.

actually he never says that, I'll quote the VenHaus website....
Quote
Need more outlets than "The Hot Box" has? The Furutech e-TP60 is a similar concept which delivers performance close to The Hot Box (when used with a Flavor 4). Although not quite the same as the "The Hot Box", this is the best solution I've found for people who want pure power delivery without the fluff.

seems to me he has a tough time explaining exactly what the etp60 does and the best he can do is compare the etp60 to his hotbox while admitting that the two pieces of gear do not work identically.

So what does the etp60 do? Well I'll quote the VenHaus site again

Quote
Features:
Like an antenna receives radio waves, the e-TP60 utilizes "GC-303", in a non-contact way, effectively absorbing the electromagnetic waves of the internal fittings. This also avoids the degradation of audio quality that is common to traditional power filters as current is filtered through a series of passive components. The GC-303 is attached to the chassis of the e-TP60 using a special EPOXY resin, which won't come off and is absolutely safe. The chassis utilizes aluminum at aviation industry level to effectively shield externally induced noise (RFI). Lastly, the receptacles and IEC inlet used are Furutech's own, which assures you of outstanding quality. Furutech's other (larger) units are available by special order.

it appears that Chris has lifted much of his language from Furutech's website which describes the etp60 thusly...
Quote
Summary:
This newly developed component is designed for setting today`s common problem of AV equipment`s inability to perform at its peak level due to contaminated electrical power.

Quote
Features:
Like antenna receives radio waves, the GC-303, in a non-contact way, effectively absorbs the electromagnetic waves conducted by all of the internal fittings; and skillfully avoids the degradation of audio quality that are commonly occurred to traditional power filters as electricity currents are filtered through a series of passive components. This is so-called “antenna effects” of GC-303.
GC-303 is attached to the chassis using special EPOXY resin, which is completely free of coming off and absolutely safe.
*GC-303 is the special material paved on the chassis for absorbing electromagnetic waves.
‧Vertical noise filters that could cause degradation to audio quality and horizontal Noise filters that could cause negative side effects to audio quality are absolutely not used in the direct outlets, because as the electricity currents pass filters, audio output becomes less leaping and less powerful.
‧The brand new theory of noise processing that is applied to this product is to deliver the pure electricity using GC-303 to absorb noises in a non-contact way and the aluminum materials at aviation industry level to effectively shields off the invasion of foreign noises.
Alloy aluminum at aviation industry level: completely shields the invasion of radioactive noise.
GC-303: absorbs and reduces the conductible noises transmitted via the conductor wires and the fittings.

So it appears that the Furutech etp60 does indeed clean up the electrical power arriving from the wall, though in a way that differs from the function of traditional power conditioners. It certainly is more than a glorified power strip.

Here's another indepth description at Harmonic Tech
http://www.harmonictech.com/product_detail_furutech.asp?keyword=44
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 05:00:31 PM by Tim »
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Tim

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Re: power cords
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2005, 04:49:58 PM »
I don't see any filters in the "Hot Box". Can you get these as an upgrade?? Please clear this up for me as Chris is out of town I believe.

Once again I turn to VenHaus's website. In the list of features for the HotBox it states...

Quote
* A power filter upgrade may be purchased for an additional $99.99. The filter consists of TWO .47 uF 600V Auricaps per receptacle (4 caps total) connected between line and neutral. Simply order the Hot Box, and then order the filter upgrade for $99.99.

So yes, it appears that you can get filters for an upgrade to the HotBox.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Daryan

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Re: power cords
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2005, 05:13:26 PM »
Tim,

You could easily put the auricaps in there yourself, or have legeddy do it for you, I am sure he would know what is going on.  Auricaps are cheap, like 10 bucks a pop if I remember correctly.  What you are hearing is probably reduced noise from what you had before I would guess.  Using any number of tweaks to your power will have the same effect, though maybe not as noticeable as something as well constructed as Chris's strip.  For doing this on the cheap, try replacing the outlets coming into the room.
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Tim

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Re: power cords
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2005, 05:29:49 PM »
I have the Furutech and it sounds great. Reduced noise? There is not *any* noise...

Chris has a great reputation though and I'm sure his hotbox sounds nice... glad to hear you can do those auricaps yourself,  that's a good tip thanks.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline Daryan

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Re: power cords
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 06:02:40 PM »
Well, I bet if you got some sort of noise measuring device, I want to say oscilloscope but I haven't a clue, you would find some ;D  I may get his power conditioner at some point.  I have a oneac unit I am going to mod the heck out of first and see if it does anything. 
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

Playback: Bolder modified Squeezebox SB3 (building linear power supply)->Bolder Cable Modified Panasonic XR-45 with bybee's->Bolder Nitro speaker cables->VMPS Audio super modified 626r's, VMPS Larger SUB, 1000w class AB sub amp
Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

Offline Tim

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Re: power cords
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2005, 06:40:21 PM »
I don't care if I can measure it, I care if I can hear it.

If I cared about measurements I wouldn't run tubes.
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline BCostigan

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Re: power cords
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2005, 06:48:44 PM »
I don't notice any noise in my playback but the outlet I'm plugged into also feeds TONS of other stuff in my house.  I'd probably be amazed if I took an hour and ran a dedicated circuit!  :-\   My point, though, is that I think noise in home playback  is one of those things that you never notice till it's gone.


This thread often makes me wonder how much of market there is for design/build high end home theaters. ($$)
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