Topic: VR4JRs?

[Nick's Picks]

tour the VSA factory...
FUN!
fuck the 4jrs, go straight for the VR11 !

btw, I can get you a good deal on new 4jrs.  Much better than $4k.
;-)


spiking my speakers...
the main reason i've not done it w/my 4s, is that the factory spikes are like a framing nail, and I have a hard time thinking about poking 8 wholes into a carpet I shelled out nearly $2k for not a year ago.  Its like putting a nail in a wall you just sheetrocked.  A painful thing to do.  Plus, on occasion I have to move them...and I was told that they will never be moved again once you spike them.
I'll probably do it any way.  Just let me get over that new carpet phobia.
I'm sure that it would help to some degree.  It made a big difference w/my VR2's.

I'm surprized that bypassing that stock jumper on the VR4s made such an improvement...
good for you though, its awesome that you had the cables to give it a try and then found that to be the better solution.

SUB:  The Vandy is a sweet, sweet sub.  My first choice for a music sub.  Big fan of multiple driver construction.  Fast and tight!
I'm still amazed that you find music to be lacking anything w/o it though.  Those speakers are full range.  Your room "dead zone", is it where you are sitting, or where the speakers are placed?
I had a similar problem with my Martin Logans, and it was more likely due to where they were in the room vs. where I was listening from.   Too bad I never moved the room around when I had them.  I'd probably still have them.

[ducati]

Nick, the holes in the carpet self-heal eventually, if you move them.  Otherwise I'd have about 50 holes in mine right now, I've moved my speakers around quite a bit in the last 3 years since we built this house.  Spike 'em, baby 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I'm buried today so no time to post a full description.  Last night I drew a map of the room.  I'll post tonight.

briefly:

the suck-out: I'm estimating 180hz is the knee but it rolls off ahead of that and all the way down.  Everything down there gets taken away.  I can find nodes by walking around. dead zone at my position for sure.  the entire arrangement is a compromise against having a listening room and a room that will accomodate guests.


nick, if you are talking about a tight weave persian rug, then I agree against spikes.  If you have regular carpeting, not problem.  I spiked the thiels and moved them all the time and there is no damage to the carpret.

ducati, kt90s are packed and i'll get them out tomorrow.

[scervin]

I thought VSA was west coast in CA?

sc.

[Frank M]

I thought VSA was west coast in CA?

Von Schweikert Audio is, Von Schweikert Research was in Watertown, NY until the factory was flooded.  Insurance wouldn't cover the damages, and Albert went bankrupt.  I was shocked at the time--how could speakers that good go out of production?!  From what I gather, a (wise) investor bankrolled him a new business in California shortly thereafter. 

[scb]

all this talk about vr4jrs is making me want some, but i just got my vr2s.  so shut up!

[scervin]

I knew VSR was flooded out but the previous poster seemed to think Albert (new VSA) was still in NY.  Just making sure I wasn't crazy     I asked a local guy if he would carry VSA and he said he wouldn't carry waterlogged speakers.  What a jeck, they sound a heck of a lot better than what he carries now.

sc

[Frank M]

I asked a local guy if he would carry VSA and he said he wouldn't carry waterlogged speakers.  
sc

In general, I think recording engineers and tapers alike are able to appreciate what the VR's do more so than audiophiles who aren't aware what a given recording should sound like in the first place.

[Tim]

I asked a local guy if he would carry VSA and he said he wouldn't carry waterlogged speakers. 
sc

In general, I think recording engineers and tapers alike are able to appreciate what the VR's do more so than audiophiles who aren't aware what a given recording should sound like in the first place.

there's something to be said about making a recording yourself and then playing it back on your system...

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I think Robert was saying he thought VSA was east coast but just found out they are in cali 10min from his house.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

OK, so here is the room, commentary to follow.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

The room layout shown is how the room is configured duing listening sessions.  When I'm not doing critical listening, the centered chair is in front of the left speaker and oriented towad the group.  I noted the ancillary rooms because I think they and the hall/entry are stealing my lower frequencies.

The ceiling is slopped.  12ft on the left(at sub), 10.5ft center(lower left trap), and 9ft (far right). 

I get very good imaging in that spot, though not as good as could be had in a better room.  I have tried other arrangements.  I had a long wall arrangement with the furniture all pushed to the corner and window.  But that arrangement had almost as many audible accoustic issues and none of the WAF of the current setup.

I have two 24x48 standing panels.  One lives against the left 1st reflection point.  The other floats as needed.  They work well behind the speakers and infront of the glass, but WAF prevents permanent placement there. 

The three red rings indicate planned tube trap placement.  I will build 6 4'x18" round tubes and stack to 8' in the three corners.  When I stand at the lower left red ring, there is a strong positive bass node there.  The other corners exhibit bass bloom but not as bad.

I have plans for treating the walls:
   
    4 24"x48" white pannels to hang 3" off the ceiling. 
    5 medium corner tunes clones for the main room
    2 small corner tunes clones for the end of the entry room
    assorted panels for the walls -  placed high (over 8ft) due to WAF issues

I made a pair of room lens clones and they work very well.  However, they are in prototype form and not appreciated at all by the GF.  Also the one that would take the right wing position can't live there because of traffic issues but I can move things out for listening sessions.


I didn't do anything scientific about this.  I came up with the tube trap ideas from walking the room and locating bass nodes.  I came up with the panel and corner placements by clap tests.  I can't do much about the glass so I may have to invest in super heavy curtains.  I've read alot of anecdotal reports and I recognize some issues and the reported solutions are integrated into the plans.  But I can't say that I really know what I'm doing.


Bass at my seat is very weak.  I would be happy to get rid of the subwoofer if I could get satisfying bass.  I said 180hz but it could be lower where the roll off starts.  I think my room has response similar to AK50s . 

Help?

[Tim]

I think my room has response similar to AK50s

rofl

[scervin]

I think grabbing a Rat shack meter for $50 is in order.  Also dl a program and make a sine sweep disc from 18Hz-250Hz or so.  You can find this software on many car audio sites, just do a search.  First run with speakers off and then with sub off (only because it is fun to see the difference).  THere are correction tables for the rat shack meter online as well and need to use these to get close. Plot the curve and see what you have.  Take the meaurements from your listening position.  Bass nodes will always be in the corners and it may be a good idea to play with sub placement.  You can then tune accordingly with tube bass traps.  I'm not sure hanging a bunch of panels will help much as you haven't mentioned what type of panels they will be.  You may end up taking down more of the highs and mids resulting in more bass.  This also seems like it may make the room more dead than you might want.  Not sure what type of couch or chairs you have, but big leather ones help in the deep bass as they are so dense.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I'll look into a meter.

The panels are composed of knauf 2" rigid fiberglass dressed in high-loft batting and a layer of upholstry grade burlap.   The free standing panels are unfaced and in a pine frame.  The hung panels will be faced to retain rigidity.

The reason for the panels is to kill the echo.  This room has lots of untreated surface and I can hear echo for almost two seconds.  I'm planning to go slowly with adding panels and try different placements so hopefully I'll find the desired result before I go overboard.  The corner tops are first.

Is there any room mode calculators that will work on rooms this complex?  Most of the ones I saw (years ago) only worked on rectangular rooms with flat ceilings.