Author Topic: R4 run times (Read 28562 times)

Nick's Picks · « **on:** March 30, 2005, 07:36:27 AM »

Hi all...

just thought id post this.
Edirol tells me that with 1850mAh AA cells, the R4 will record for 4 hours continuously. i'm sure that is at 16/44 though. I just bought a shitload of 2300mAh AA cells from batteryspace.com ($29 for 24 cells!). And will do all sorts of recording tests with these at various resolutions.
Wouldnt it be the shit to get a solid 2.5 hours from the internal AAs at 24bit ? I think so.
I would probably never carry an external pack.
but...just in case, there are KILLER deals on eBay right now for 9.6v RC packs. I am about to buy 3 2000mAh RC packs for $25 or something rediculous like that. Add custom cable, and there is a 6amp pack for under $30. pretty sweet.

krebsy · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2005, 08:02:29 AM »

Thanks for the testing Nick. This thing has certainly got my interest. There are some nice options becoming available for 24bit. Decisions, decisions. +T

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2005, 03:16:37 PM »

ok...further clarification.
the manual states that it will approach 2 hours of 16/44 on the internal alkalines. i'm sure even with better batteries in there, 24bit on those will just be out of the question.
so, its back to the external pack.
I'm building a 6amp battery out of 3 2000mAh RC packs ($24 on ebay) wired in parrallel. That should do the trick for at least a single long concert w/all the lights on and everything. we'll see as I get to test it some more.

David Sanders has one and has been running two rigs at 24/48 into it w/o any problems at all. makes two stereo files.
sweeeettt!

chun · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2005, 03:28:21 PM »

What is the cost of this sucker?

Lots of websites - none with prices.....

-jb

Just got quoted $1400.....

Steve J · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2005, 04:03:10 PM »

Don't know if they've actually got'em in stock; but the best price I've seen online is at Jack's Music Store

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2005, 04:17:44 PM »

I believe they will be between $1300 > $1800, depending on who you buy from.

timP · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2005, 04:31:47 PM »

man I want to hear this thing!

i really like the way my old UA5 sounded at 24 bits...

the fact of having an internal HD, 4 chanels, 1 box pre/ad in a price I can reach is soooo tempting

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2005, 08:20:54 AM »

Fantastic boogie.. +T
i'm going to use your battery tests for my review...and give a plug for being a "contributing editor" along with Jason.
...if that is ok w/you?

bhtoque · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2005, 10:45:43 AM »

On the 3 rc pack (6ah) I did 4 hours of 24/96 recording w/ 2 channels, phantom, phones and backlight Plus about 45 min of idle time, did the transfer to pc and cleaned the drive with juice to spare.

I'll do a run it till it dies on Sunday.

JAson

timP · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2005, 01:03:15 PM »

I kn ow it's off topic, but how does this box sound? pre/ A>D?

JasonSobel · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2005, 01:12:36 PM »

Jason (bhtoque) torrented a JMP show, both in 24/96 and then at 16/44.1

if you missed the torrent, I can help you out with the 24/96 version, but I didn't download the 16 bit version.

it was octava cards directly into the R4. sounds very nice, in my opinion, but I haven't heard enough of teh box to form a complete opinion.

Quote from: tpoff on April 21, 2005, 01:03:15 PM

I kn ow it's off topic, but how does this box sound? pre/ A>D?

bhtoque · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2005, 05:35:19 PM »

Quote from: tpoff on April 21, 2005, 01:03:15 PM

I kn ow it's off topic, but how does this box sound? pre/ A>D?

I did Ratdog @ Lupos last night. Balcony rail. LSD2 cards xy>R4 @ 24/96.

I think the R4 is nothing short of amazing for an all-in-one. I'm really tempted to sell my t-mod ua-5 and JB3 and get an R4.

The presence and detail are incredible, sounds very fob. I wish I had better playback system, I'm sure I'd be drooling over how good it sounds.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2005, 07:41:32 PM »

uh oh...
sounds like someones been bit by the hi-rez bug.
;-)

bhtoque · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2005, 03:08:50 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on April 21, 2005, 07:41:32 PM

uh oh...
sounds like someones been bit by the hi-rez bug.
;-)

Let's just say you're going to have to pry it out of my hands tomorrow.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2005, 07:45:00 AM »

well, i'm glad to hear a favorable review of the preamp section. I got scarred after the brickwall part.
guess i'll leave the 248 behind tonight.

ghellquist · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2005, 05:02:52 PM »

I briefly had my hands on one. The pres sounded decent to me, did a symphone orchestra recording with four omni as a test. Like the sound, no obvious problems, but this was only a quick test. (micx where 2x Neumann KM183 + 2x Studio Projects C4 in omni)

Could you however test one little pecularity for me. I tested running the machine on internal batteries, and then connected the external power. And the machine simply stopped dead. Nothing seems destroyed, as it booted up correctly afterwards, but still. Was this only that machine, or is it the common behaviour?

G.

bhtoque · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2005, 02:24:08 AM »

Quote from: ghellquist on April 22, 2005, 05:02:52 PM

I briefly had my hands on one. The pres sounded decent to me, did a symphone orchestra recording with four omni as a test. Like the sound, no obvious problems, but this was only a quick test. (micx where 2x Neumann KM183 + 2x Studio Projects C4 in omni)

Could you however test one little pecularity for me. I tested running the machine on internal batteries, and then connected the external power. And the machine simply stopped dead. Nothing seems destroyed, as it booted up correctly afterwards, but still. Was this only that machine, or is it the common behaviour?

G.

With aa's in it, I started it up on external power, then pulled the plug. It did not switch to the aa's, and died instantly. I'll try to duplicate your scenario tomorrow.

JAson

ghellquist · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2005, 05:21:24 PM »

Well. Good they know about it.

A bit of problem though if you ask me. I´m used to equipment that simply "eats" whatever power they find.

Thank you for the trouble in finding it.

Gunnar.

ghellquist · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2005, 12:25:57 PM »

Fair enough. They are clear about it in the manual and that is a good thing.

Gunnar

timP · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2005, 02:23:21 PM »

anyone want to loan out their r4 this Friday?

taping a DVD release show for the Bridge and it should be a big night
would love to get a track with the sbd since the "section" is far LOC

just checking... ah wishing that is

bhtoque · « **Reply #20 on:** April 26, 2005, 12:40:24 AM »

Ok, here's the result of my runtime test from tonight.

On 3 2000mha 9.6v rc packs the r4 was able to record 8.5 hours safely.

I ran it w/ the lsd2, gain at max and backlight on at 24/96. It recorded 8 2 gig files (1hr 2min ea) I just put it in front of my stereo and let it go.

Sometime after 8 hours 30 min it died. The 9th file shows 0kb, so you have to save first or you'll lose it if you push it past the 8.5hr mark.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #21 on:** April 26, 2005, 07:10:42 AM »

safer?
how so? If you are running till the point of shutdown, then yes. but since we are talking about recording a show, and maybe an opening act, then the external pack is the way to go.
the walmart LION pack is probaby the best bet for this sucker.

still encouraging that a single 2amp RC pack will run it almost 3 hours.
one of those and internal AAs will run it for a solid 5-6 hours. that kicks some serious ass.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #22 on:** April 26, 2005, 04:33:36 PM »

Quote from: boogie on April 26, 2005, 04:27:25 PM

nick,

as mentioned, the power is not autoswitching, so the combination of an external pack and internal batteries will NOT run it "solid" for 5-6 hours without a shutdown and disconnect of the battery pack in between there to activate the internal batteriessafer is totally accurate....if you are using the AC pack and it either runs down or gets bumped loose, you are ass out and the unit will stop AND you will likely have a corrupt file as well....on the batteries, the system shuts down gracefully with no loss of data when the power is running out

either way it sucks to run out of juice...at least on internal batteries you still have your partial recording...with an external source you will likely have nothing from the last hours segment but a corrupted file

boogie

Iunderstand its not autoswitching. I was just saying that you can rely on a solid 5.5 hours. solid meaning..."hey, thats pretty solid!", and not continuous playtime w/o interruptions.
Still, armed w/those batteries and one RC pack...and some time management, you could run fine and not loose anything. I've yet to hear anyone play (that I go see any way) more than a 2.5 hour set of music w/o any stop.
YMMV
Sorry for not articulating what I really intended.
a mysterly unplug would suck indeed though.

bhtoque · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2005, 06:24:30 PM »

Well, I did the Jammys on 6ah of 9v. Never stopped and all is well. I know for a fact that I can get 8 hours, then unplug and switch in 1 fresh batt at a time. This way I could run non stop till the HD fills. No power down to switch to AA's or anything.

With the cable anchor built into the side, and a 3 inch strip of gaffer's tape, my cable isn't coming out unless you try to bungee jump the R-4 on it.

I've got to listen to the 5hrs of Jammys and 4hrs of Umphrey's to make sure, but this box seems rock solid even with a half full drive. Same can not be said for the competition.

Yes, it would be a nice safety net if it would auto switch to internals when external power is removed, but it seems like a non-issue now.

JAson

bhtoque · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2005, 11:02:55 AM »

Well, since the Jammys amd aftershow were flawless @ 24/96 I decided to push it a little harder.

Last night I did Sam Kininger and Soulive 2 stereo pairs @ 24/96 with 3 hours of 24/96 already on the drive.

I have not had time to listen to all of it, but best I can tell it was problem free.

It also handles vibration like a champ. Both the Slip last Wednesday and last night I was approx 6ft off stage. Even the subs under the stage @ the 'dise were not a problem, and let me tell ya, it was thumping.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2005, 12:08:31 PM »

NICE !
way to work it Jason.

I'll need that puppy back in 2 weeks or so.

boa · « **Reply #26 on:** May 11, 2005, 08:16:11 PM »

Quote from: bhtoque on May 06, 2005, 11:02:55 AM

Last night I did Sam Kininger and Soulive 2 stereo pairs @ 24/96 with 3 hours of 24/96 already on the drive.

I have not had time to listen to all of it, but best I can tell it was problem free.

I have not had the same luck. I recorded one two hour show via Stereo X 01 @ 24/48 and had the files on the drive. This was the first recording made on the unit out of the box. The next night I tried running Stereo X 02 @ 24/48 and tested it during soundcheck. At about 7 minutes into the recording, I got the "HDD SLOW" error message flashing across the screen. I do not believe that the unit records while the message is flashing, but seemingly did not lose anything up to the error message. I was able to shut down the R4, disconnect a stereo pair and then reset the config to Stereo X 01, and all was fine for recording the show at 24/48.

Subsequent conversations with Edirol have not produced any resolution yet. Maybe my expectations are too high; I wanted to be able to keep recordings on the drive until a break in the tour and then offload them. I will need to offload them after every gig in order to maintain system integrity and peace of mind.

I have been following your posts and I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Are you doing anything to the drive (defrag, etc) after each show?

bhtoque · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2005, 10:03:53 AM »

Quote from: boa on May 11, 2005, 08:16:11 PM

Quote from: bhtoque on May 06, 2005, 11:02:55 AM
Last night I did Sam Kininger and Soulive 2 stereo pairs @ 24/96 with 3 hours of 24/96 already on the drive.

I have not had time to listen to all of it, but best I can tell it was problem free.

I have not had the same luck. I recorded one two hour show via Stereo X 01 @ 24/48 and had the files on the drive. This was the first recording made on the unit out of the box. The next night I tried running Stereo X 02 @ 24/48 and tested it during soundcheck. At about 7 minutes into the recording, I got the "HDD SLOW" error message flashing across the screen. I do not believe that the unit records while the message is flashing, but seemingly did not lose anything up to the error message. I was able to shut down the R4, disconnect a stereo pair and then reset the config to Stereo X 01, and all was fine for recording the show at 24/48.

Subsequent conversations with Edirol have not produced any resolution yet. Maybe my expectations are too high; I wanted to be able to keep recordings on the drive until a break in the tour and then offload them. I will need to offload them after every gig in order to maintain system integrity and peace of mind.

I have been following your posts and I appreciate you sharing your experiences. Are you doing anything to the drive (defrag, etc) after each show?

That's too bad Boa. Things on my end have been fine. I have since listened to the entire Sam and Soulive show and it is free of audible errors, and I have not seen any error messages with it.

I have been doing a drive format after each show, but for the test in question, I intentionally left 6 gigs of files on it to stress the drive a little. My 9 hours(5hrs>1 hr off>4hrs) of 24/96 for the Jammys came out fine too. Last night I was 8ft from the stage for Hairy Apes BMX, and the whole room was shaking. Still no errors. The FR-2 being used back near the sbd locked up a couple times because of the vibrations. I've been hoping to get some kind of error, or useability issue, just to get a feel for the R-4's limits, but nothing so far.

JAson

boa · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2005, 01:08:31 PM »

Quote from: bhtoque on May 12, 2005, 10:03:53 AM

I have been doing a drive format after each show, but for the test in question, I intentionally left 6 gigs of files on it to stress the drive a little. My 9 hours(5hrs>1 hr off>4hrs) of 24/96 for the Jammys came out fine too. Last night I was 8ft from the stage for Hairy Apes BMX, and the whole room was shaking. Still no errors. The FR-2 being used back near the sbd locked up a couple times because of the vibrations. I've been hoping to get some kind of error, or useability issue, just to get a feel for the R-4's limits, but nothing so far.

JAson

Are you doing a Format via your computer operating system or is that some added functionality within the R4 makeup that I have yet to uncover? Thanks again for your feedback.

bhtoque · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2005, 02:45:41 PM »

Quote from: boa on May 12, 2005, 01:08:31 PM

Quote from: bhtoque on May 12, 2005, 10:03:53 AM
I have been doing a drive format after each show, but for the test in question, I intentionally left 6 gigs of files on it to stress the drive a little. My 9 hours(5hrs>1 hr off>4hrs) of 24/96 for the Jammys came out fine too. Last night I was 8ft from the stage for Hairy Apes BMX, and the whole room was shaking. Still no errors. The FR-2 being used back near the sbd locked up a couple times because of the vibrations. I've been hoping to get some kind of error, or useability issue, just to get a feel for the R-4's limits, but nothing so far.

JAson

Are you doing a Format via your computer operating system or is that some added functionality within the R4 makeup that I have yet to uncover? Thanks again for your feedback.

It is w/ the R4's HDD utility.

Push the System button, scroll down 5 or 6 items to HDD Utility, press enter pick disc check (basically a defrag) or format.

JAson

eric.B · « **Reply #30 on:** May 13, 2005, 04:23:41 PM »

howdy fellas...

I am wondering if there are any impressions as to the A>D in the edirol R4? (any bit depth and sample rate)

Any of you guys run this thing line in yet? and if so.. what bitdepth and sample rate didcha use? and how'd it go?

thanks in advance..

ericB

boa · « **Reply #31 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:18:03 PM »

Quote from: webericb on May 13, 2005, 04:23:41 PM

howdy fellas...

I am wondering if there are any impressions as to the A>D in the edirol R4? (any bit depth and sample rate)

Any of you guys run this thing line in yet? and if so.. what bitdepth and sample rate didcha use? and how'd it go?

thanks in advance..

ericB

Am I missing something as I only run line-in?

Tonight will be the fifth show on The Black Crowes tour run Stereo X 01 @ 24/48.

The first two were DPA4061 @ 36" spaced > R4, and the next three have been SMS210 > R4, and all sound well to this old ear.

You can listen @ http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14223

eric.B · « **Reply #32 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:45:45 PM »

Quote from: boa on May 13, 2005, 09:18:03 PM

Quote from: webericb on May 13, 2005, 04:23:41 PM

Any of you guys run this thing line in yet? and if so.. what bitdepth and sample rate didcha use? and how'd it go?

Am I missing something as I only run line-in?

You can listen @ http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14223

cool.. thanks for the link to the torrent.. I am getting it now..

As for line in.. I mean as opposed to running phantom/mic in..

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #33 on:** May 14, 2005, 08:16:13 AM »

I've run it line in...at 24/96.
sounds fucking fantastic.

honestly, this box sounds better than expected.
the more I use it, the more I am sensing that this is the hdd recorder to own.
fuck SD.

bhtoque · « **Reply #34 on:** May 14, 2005, 03:05:01 PM »

Quote from: boa on May 13, 2005, 09:18:03 PM

Am I missing something as I only run line-in?

Tonight will be the fifth show on The Black Crowes tour run Stereo X 01 @ 24/48.

The first two were DPA4061 @ 36" spaced > R4, and the next three have been SMS210 > R4, and all sound well to this old ear.

You can listen @ http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14223

Ah, so Mike had your R-4 @ Hampton. He said it was borrowed, but I didn't make the connection right away.

+T and thanks again for the help Boa.

JAson

boa · « **Reply #35 on:** July 04, 2005, 05:13:10 PM »

Quote from: bhtoque on May 14, 2005, 03:05:01 PM

Quote from: boa on May 13, 2005, 09:18:03 PM

Am I missing something as I only run line-in?

Tonight will be the fifth show on The Black Crowes tour run Stereo X 01 @ 24/48.

The first two were DPA4061 @ 36" spaced > R4, and the next three have been SMS210 > R4, and all sound well to this old ear.

You can listen @ http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=14223

Ah, so Mike had your R-4 @ Hampton. He said it was borrowed, but I didn't make the connection right away.

+T and thanks again for the help Boa.

JAson

Can you tell me more about your 9v 6amp battery solution that you did the StereoX02 @ 24/96 ?

bhtoque · « **Reply #36 on:** July 04, 2005, 06:22:49 PM »

Quote from: boa on May 13, 2005, 09:18:03 PM

Can you tell me more about your 9v 6amp battery solution that you did the StereoX02 @ 24/96 ?

It is 3 2ah 9.6v rc car packs (just 8AA's wired up and shrink wrapped) with a home made cable (parts from radio shack) to run all 3 at once with the right tip to plug into the r-4. 8 hours record time, 3 hours to recharge.

I got the batteries from batteryspace.com $25 a 3pack and the charger for another $30

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1215 charger
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1144 batts

If you search e-bay, they sell slightly cheaper through their e-bay store

JAson

boa · « **Reply #37 on:** July 07, 2005, 10:30:13 PM »

Thanks Jason. I am going to give that a try.

Here are my run time test results with AA rechargeables. Props to Boogie for the format.

RUN #1:
======
-8 AA Energizer 2300mah rechargeables
-2 Microtech Gefell SMS210's on 1 & 2 (w/phantom power on)
-2 DPA4061's on 3&4
-24/44.1 StereoX02 recording
-display light on
-battery type set to "nimh"

These went to 1/2 power on the battery meter almost immediately, but stayed that way for the next 1.5 hours.

-"battery low" warning @ 130min
-power failure @ ~140min

RUN #2:
======
-8 AA Powercell 2300mah rechargeables
-2 Microtech Gefell SMS210's on 1 & 2 (w/phantom power on)
-2 DPA4061's on 3 & 4
-24/96 StereoX02 recording
-display light on
-battery type set to "nimh"

-"battery low" warning @ ~160min
-power failure @ ~175min

These were both done with the HD 1/2 filled; A HD check/defrag before the start of a new .WAV is the trick to beating the "media Too Slow"message.

bhtoque · « **Reply #38 on:** July 08, 2005, 02:50:27 AM »

Thanks for the info Boa.

It is amazing the R-4 goes as long as it does on AA's.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #39 on:** July 08, 2005, 07:49:17 AM »

its always a good backup plan to carry 8 AAs in the bag w/the R4. no doubt.
this thing is sooo forgiving when it comes to power requirements. love it.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #40 on:** July 12, 2005, 04:30:55 PM »

Has anyone tried running this on the Walmart l-ion battery yet?

I whipped out the Visa yesterday and bought one (24 bit snobbery here I come)!

I've got a ton of Energizer rechargeable AAs, but I'd like to rig some type of external pack as well.

Tim · « **Reply #41 on:** July 12, 2005, 05:21:45 PM »

you're on a tear Nick! nice pick up

+T... 500 for ya

boa · « **Reply #42 on:** July 12, 2005, 06:24:03 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 12, 2005, 04:30:55 PM

Has anyone tried running this on the Walmart l-ion battery yet?

I whipped out the Visa yesterday and bought one (24 bit snobbery here I come)!

I've got a ton of Energizer rechargeable AAs, but I'd like to rig some type of external pack as well.

Way To Go Nick! +T Thats awesome. I also am looking at an external power source so I will keep you in the loop if I am successful.

Thanks for the package - it arrived safely and sure is a nice stash

Nick Graham · « **Reply #43 on:** July 12, 2005, 07:36:54 PM »

Quote from: boa on July 12, 2005, 06:24:03 PM

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 12, 2005, 04:30:55 PM
Has anyone tried running this on the Walmart l-ion battery yet?

I whipped out the Visa yesterday and bought one (24 bit snobbery here I come)!

I've got a ton of Energizer rechargeable AAs, but I'd like to rig some type of external pack as well.

Way To Go Nick! +T Thats awesome. I also am looking at an external power source so I will keep you in the loop if I am successful.

Thanks for the package - it arrived safely and sure is a nice stash

Glad to know everything arrived okay.

No chance you're gonna bein Nashville tomorrow night is there? I owe you a beer (or soda if that's your thing) or 20 by now.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #44 on:** July 12, 2005, 09:04:00 PM »

yes..I run the walmart LION. no problems at all. adapta-plug and two tips. One of which I know is a B.
5+ hours. I've never run mine dry in the field.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2005, 03:32:24 AM »

Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2005, 08:05:22 AM »

what were the conditions? were you close to the PA or something? was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use. I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

kgreener · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2005, 09:33:53 AM »

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show? If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data? On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #48 on:** July 17, 2005, 11:56:39 AM »

Quote from: kgreener on July 17, 2005, 09:33:53 AM

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show? If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data? On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

Disc Check/Format are both built in options within the R4. Disc Check is essentially a defrag, where as Format does exactly what you think it would do - erases everything on the drive.

I tend to agree for the most part, if making sure the HD is empty everytime I record is a must, that sort of defeats the purpose of having a 40GB HD. FWIW though, both Boa and Boogie have been able to successfully record @ 24/96 with half full HDs by doing the Disc Check prior to each show.

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 17, 2005, 08:05:22 AM

what were the conditions? were you close to the PA or something? was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use. I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

I was fairly close to the PA, and it was as hot as any packed club show in the Tennessee summertime heat, but still - if that was the culprit, then this is likely gonna hapen everytime - so I'm sending the fucker back. I've got The Dragonflys Monday night, so I guess Round 2 will be then. Got my fingers crossed....

boa · « **Reply #49 on:** July 17, 2005, 01:55:27 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 17, 2005, 03:32:24 AM

Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag) prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #50 on:** July 17, 2005, 02:15:51 PM »

Quote from: boa on July 17, 2005, 01:55:27 PM

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 17, 2005, 03:32:24 AM
Well, I got the dreaded "HDD Slow" Error Message tonight! I ran a disc format beforehand, so that seemingly didn't help.

One thing I noticed, at lower decibels things are fine, as soon as any drums kick in, the error appears. Listening back it skips like hell whenever that message appeared, but the quieter parts are okay.

FWIW I was running line-in @ 24/96.

Would "Disc Check" have made a difference? Is that what stopped others from getting this error? I thought formatting was what I wanted to do...

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag) prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

Cool man, much appreciated.

I've set up an extremely easy external battery pack for the R4. Looks like it'll run somewhere in the 8 hour range. PM me and I'll shoot you the details/part numbers.

kgreener · « **Reply #51 on:** July 17, 2005, 02:31:22 PM »

Quote

Nick, I rec'd the same error on my 2nd attempt using the R4, and have not seen it since. I believe the reason is performing a "Disc Check" (defrag) prior to each recording, whether you have data on the drive or not. This process has worked for me.

Quote

if a simple disc check/defrag is all it takes, then that's great. but a reformat of the drive each time is definitely not!

thanks guys.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #52 on:** July 17, 2005, 05:30:57 PM »

Quote from: kgreener on July 17, 2005, 09:33:53 AM

Nick, when you and others say that you do a format/check before each use, are you saying that you're transferring all of your data to a pc first, then formatting everything to have a clean drive at the next show? If so, doesn't this kind of defeat the purpose of having a 40gb hard drive in the R4 for storing data? On my JB3 I've tons of shows that I leave on there, and only delete them when I'm low on space and know I have them archived properly.

Or maybe the R4 can do a selective format, and format only parts of the hard drive that don't have data on it? (though I doubt this is the case).

Please let me know when you have a chance...thanks.

the 40gb drive is not for archiving data. its for "blank tape", and it needs to be de-fragged before each use for best results. it gives you 19 hours of 24/96. not 40gb of SHN files or old masters. thats not the intended purpose of the drive, imo.
so yes..I transfer music off of it when i'm finished recording. and then i scrub it clean before each use. I"ve kept some stuff on their once or twice when recording something new. but i have no need to..so why take the risk.
I dont believe that formating is crucial. but like i said..I dont consider it like a JB3. Its not like i'm dragging it around as a walkman..as you can w/the Nomad. I kept my recordings on that indefinitely as well.

your jb3 is a little more forgiving because recording 16bit doesn't come close to taxing the drive inside. 24bit is another story.

selective format...
nope.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #53 on:** July 18, 2005, 04:45:25 PM »

Well, tonight's gonna be my 2nd attempt with the R4. Cross your fingers, wish me luck, and be on the lookout for some 24/96 Herring goodness tomorrow.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #54 on:** July 18, 2005, 07:01:32 PM »

+T
give it some!

sleepypedro · « **Reply #55 on:** July 19, 2005, 01:12:57 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 17, 2005, 08:05:22 AM

what were the conditions? were you close to the PA or something? was there heat...vibration ?

i have still not had this problem...even in heat and vibration..and I run 24/96 constantly.
I also do a format/check before each use. I think the check disc feature de-frags...and its something you want to do for sure.

i got my r4 last week, just like nick graham did. my first recording session was 100% successful. i ran 2 channels, stereo x1, at 24/96 and had no issues. after transferring to my host PC and confirming md5 files, i formatted the drive.

tonight i ran my second session during an opening act. 4 channels, stereo x2 at 24/96. every time the music would get beyond a certain dB threshhold, i got the 'HDD SLOW' error. this happened during my fiirst write to disk since the format.

inbetween opener and headliner, i did two things, both of which i figured would remedy the problem: i ran a disk check, i turned my resolution down to 24/48. as soon as all 4 channels started to reach the same dB threshhold, i again started to see the 'HDD SLOW' problem.

according to the anecdotes in this thread, a disk check should have prevented the problem. not so in my case!

the resulting recording is absolute garbage during the 'HDD SLOW' sequences.

udovdh · « **Reply #56 on:** July 19, 2005, 02:54:14 AM »

Is the R4 recording to WAV or in some compressed format?
If it si WAV then the amount of data is constant oevr time and increase of sound volume should have no effect.
If it is some compressed format then the amount of resulting data coudl vary with sound volume, but even then: current media speeds are enough to keep up with a few megs/s...

Either way: it's a bug?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #57 on:** July 19, 2005, 07:26:52 AM »

that sucks!
these decks...they strange in that some are bulletproof, and others are not.

nickgregory · « **Reply #58 on:** July 19, 2005, 07:27:23 AM »

is it possible vibrations to the unit from the db level increase is causing the issue?

sleepypedro · « **Reply #59 on:** July 19, 2005, 07:30:43 AM »

it's writing uncompressed. it either writes stereo x1, stereo x2, or mono x4 in either wav or bwf mode. in my case last night, it was writing stereo x2 in wav mode.

and yeah, it most definitely is triggered by sequences of sustained loud volume. i was told about this over the weekend, and i too found it hard to believe, but not after last night.

i don't think it's an issue of vibration, but i can't rule that out without further testing. i was about 30 feet from stage, in the soundbooth of the ram's head in annapolis md. i mention this because it's relevant that it's a dinner-and-a-show environment... some music is louder than others, but never is it LOUD like a big rock club.

grrrrrrrr.

any suggestions on how i can test this?

is it simply an issue of needing a more robust hard disc inside? has anyone done any replacements / upgrades?

udovdh · « **Reply #60 on:** July 19, 2005, 08:23:01 AM »

Quote from: sleepypedro on July 19, 2005, 07:30:43 AM

is it simply an issue of needing a more robust hard disc inside? has anyone done any replacements / upgrades?

If it is truely caused by physical vibrations then you can test that by feeding (at home, via a line source) the device the same electrical signal levels as in the club (when taping). At home things should be OK.
A different HD could be a solution in that case. Only which one?

Nick Graham · « **Reply #61 on:** July 19, 2005, 10:13:54 AM »

My 2nd attempt was the exact opposite last night - absolutely perfect, and at as high (if not higher) dB levels than Saturday night.

I had the same problems this past weekend, "HDD Slow" errors at certain decibel levels. Last night I ran a disc check and format just prior to the show starting, and another disc check at setbreak. I was running Stereo X 1 at 24/96.

It is strange how so far both sleepypedro and myself are at 50% with this thing, while others have been error free. I'm hoping both mine and his bad experiences these last few days were one time only occurrences.

bhtoque · « **Reply #62 on:** July 19, 2005, 02:20:23 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 19, 2005, 10:13:54 AM

My 2nd attempt was the exact opposite last night - absolutely perfect, and at as high (if not higher) dB levels than Saturday night.

I had the same problems this past weekend, "HDD Slow" errors at certain decibel levels. Last night I ran a disc check and format just prior to the show starting, and another disc check at setbreak. I was running Stereo X 1 at 24/96.

It is strange how so far both sleepypedro and myself are at 50% with this thing, while others have been error free. I'm hoping both mine and his bad experiences these last few days were one time only occurrences.

This really sucks to hear. After a month of runing the shit out of Nick's, I figured these things were almost bulletproof. Maybe Edirol got a batch of bad drives. Have you tried running some disc utilities on the pc via usb? Not sure of disk doctor will work that way, but windows does see it as a regular external drive.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #63 on:** July 19, 2005, 03:02:10 PM »

if possible...a 7200rpm drive might fix things. but who knows how a different drive will react w/the firmware

sleepypedro · « **Reply #64 on:** July 19, 2005, 03:57:10 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 19, 2005, 03:02:10 PM

if possible...a 7200rpm drive might fix things. but who knows how a different drive will react w/the firmware

anybody have experience cracking them open yet? i haven't seen any pictures of the guts anywhere... i'm sure it'll be obvious what goes where provided we can get the case open, but then there's the question of the operating system. is it actually booting off the hd?

sleepypedro · « **Reply #65 on:** July 19, 2005, 04:34:23 PM »

edirol is calling my scenario vibration-related. so maybe bring a tshirt or some kind of buffer device to put under the r4 when you run it, folks

and HEY, it looks like i made FAQ entry #1 on the r4 :-)

i'm still going to test extensively, obviously, before i agree with their synopsis... but just wanted to let you know what i was hearing. here's their reply:

--------------------------------------------------------------

hi -- i've owned the r4 for only a few days. last night during a recording session on a completely blank hard drive, having just been formatted prior to the session, i received the "HDD SLOW" error and the recording was ruined. i was recording 4 channels at 24/96. at that point i stopped the session, ran a disk check, and lowered the resolution to 24/48. i still continued to receive the "HDD SLOW" error message.

it only happened when the volume reached and held at a certain threshhold -- approximately all channels were reaching -3 dB or so on the level meter.

please have someone contact me about this as soon as possible -- if i can't use the product reliably at 24/96, i need to return it to the vendor or have it RMA'ed back to you.

my first session over the weekend was successful, but i only ran 2 channels at 24/96

thank you
peter w king
xxx-xxx-xxxx
sleepypedro@xxxx.com

Greetings,

The "HDD Slow" error appears when the R-4 cannot write to the drive fast enough. The most common causes of this are fragmentation of allocation units on the drive and/or physical vibration of the unit during the recording process. Before we schedule a warranty service of your R-4, please perform a test:

First, save any important files to your computer. Then, format the R-4's hard drive. Put the R-4 in a room free of vibration (such as an office or room in a house). Create a Stereo x 2 recording at 24/96 and start recording background sound (note: the level of audio being recorded has no effect on the quantity of data being written to the hard disk). The R-4 should record normally. If you get the HDD Slow error under these conditions, please call us during business hours at xxx-xxx-xxxx to schedule warranty service.

Best Regards,
Edirol Corporation

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #66 on:** July 20, 2005, 07:44:44 AM »

i'd have to agree w/Edirol on this.
it makes sense when you think about it.

everyone who has mentioned this problem always says it happens when a certain dB is reached. now, we know that the higher volumes do not produce more I/O strain on the hdd. So what does go up with ambient volume? vibration!

what I do...and maybe this is why i've had such success w/this and prior w/my 5gb Toshiba PCMCIA drive based Fostex.
my gear bag...some custom Targus POS made for RadioShack...has an elastic band in the main compartment. It is ment to strap down a laptop and keep it stationary. I use it as a floating elastic belt that suspends the unit in the bag and keeps it on a loose "bungy" almost. I'll take some pictures....

I never had trouble with my FR2, which was the king of crapping out under vibration stress. and i've never had any trouble w/the R4 either.
and that sucker has been on stage with bands where it should puke if it was going to at all. And fwiw, that has been both in and out of the bag.

I think the bag cost $20.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #67 on:** July 20, 2005, 10:48:49 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on July 20, 2005, 07:44:44 AM

i'd have to agree w/Edirol on this.
it makes sense when you think about it.

everyone who has mentioned this problem always says it happens when a certain dB is reached. now, we know that the higher volumes do not produce more I/O strain on the hdd. So what does go up with ambient volume? vibration!

what I do...and maybe this is why i've had such success w/this and prior w/my 5gb Toshiba PCMCIA drive based Fostex.
my gear bag...some custom Targus POS made for RadioShack...has an elastic band in the main compartment. It is ment to strap down a laptop and keep it stationary. I use it as a floating elastic belt that suspends the unit in the bag and keeps it on a loose "bungy" almost. I'll take some pictures....

I never had trouble with my FR2, which was the king of crapping out under vibration stress. and i've never had any trouble w/the R4 either.
and that sucker has been on stage with bands where it should puke if it was going to at all. And fwiw, that has been both in and out of the bag.

I think the bag cost $20.

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

sleepypedro · « **Reply #68 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:10:51 AM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 20, 2005, 10:48:49 AM

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit!

Nick Graham · « **Reply #69 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:18:00 AM »

Quote from: sleepypedro on July 20, 2005, 11:10:51 AM

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 20, 2005, 10:48:49 AM

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit!

Hmmmm....that's an idea.

Time to google "industrial-grade gel pads"

nickgregory · « **Reply #70 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:20:37 AM »

I think the suspension idea that Nick mentions is a good one...the portabrace for the 722 acts on this principle..mainly due to the fact that the battery makes the unit oblong on one side, but it still suspends it and probably helps significantly with vibrations....just a thought

udovdh · « **Reply #71 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:21:39 AM »

Quote from: sleepypedro on July 20, 2005, 11:10:51 AM

Quote from: Nick Graham on July 20, 2005, 10:48:49 AM

Yep, I think you/Pedro/Edirol are pretty much right on with this assessment. While the show I taped Monday night was as loud/louder than the show Saturday, the vibrations were definitely worse Saturday.

After reading Edirol's response last night I threw a t-shirt in my gear bag. Hopefully that'll help...

i'm kind of surprised if edirol knows how finicky the hd is to vibration that the unit doesn't ship with some serious industrial-grade gel pads to put under the unit!

Pads under the unit!?

Better would be a HD that's more resistant to some mild vibrations? (how do laptops work in such environments?)
Maybe some more buffering in RAM could help very temporarily?
Fix the problem at the source.
Maybe get a different HD in the unit?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #72 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:34:39 AM »

here is the bag I mention.
radio shack !!

notice the elastic strap that I use to rest the gear on. also leaves rooms for cables...should you have something that has rear connectors.
I used to run this w/my V3 and it worked very well for leaving cable / battery space underneath.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #73 on:** July 20, 2005, 11:36:19 AM »

man...lots of "show crumbs" in there.

sleepypedro · « **Reply #74 on:** July 20, 2005, 12:30:49 PM »

hey, i forgot to mention that last night i performed the test that edirol wanted to run, basically recording 4 channels of silence, stereo x2, and seeing if in a totally still environment it would 'HDD SLOW'. it did not.

i wanted to create a failure, so i tried shaking the thing as it recorded... certainly more vibrational stress than it was under during the performance the previous night. still no failure...

i want to love this thing, i really do, but i won't if i can't rely on it 100%.

boa · « **Reply #75 on:** July 20, 2005, 12:40:31 PM »

I didn't think to mention that I run the R4 sitting on its feet with a baby comforter folded underneath and over the top of it. I did not have it resting on anything other than the SBD console the one time I ran into the "HDD Too Slow" error.

Based upon Sleepy and Nick's feedback along with Edirol's response, the error that I sustained could easily be explained.

Do most run the R4 upright in a bag or flat on its feet?

Nick Graham · « **Reply #76 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:00:20 PM »

The night I had errors it was kind of at a 45 degree angle propped against my main bag, Monday I had it facing staright up in the bag it came with...

bhtoque · « **Reply #77 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:14:57 PM »

I ran it out in the open, on a hard surface within a couple feet of the subwoofers built in under the stage at several very loud shows and never got an error.

I'm sure vibration is the root cause, but there must be a qc issue that is causing problems more frequently in some units than with others.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #78 on:** July 20, 2005, 02:36:17 PM »

same here. i've run it onstage, flat on its feet w/o any problems. I typicaly run it in my bag standing straight up.

Nick Graham · « **Reply #79 on:** July 24, 2005, 02:40:44 PM »

Well, Round 3 with the R4 turned out perfectly too. I ran it flat on top of the bag it came with as a form of "shock resistance", and did a "Check Disc" between each set - and managed to pull 4 very loud sets (about 5 hours total) at 24/96 no problem.

mmmatt · « **Reply #80 on:** November 09, 2005, 12:55:51 AM »

Hey guys,
I just bought an r4 and I'm hoping to have it by friday so I'm researching. Seeing all this hdd too slow stuff I'm wondering about power people are using. Couldn't the problems also be caused by the hd not getting enough juice? Louder shows would pull more juice with the pres, more power hungry mics would drain faster and things like multiple battery's linked (ie jasons 3@2000mah batt system vs 1@6000mah) would actually allow for a heavier power drain. Is there a link to powering issues during failures. Has this ever happened on wall power or internal aa's.
Just thought i would bring this back up and see what the solutions are.

Matt

mmmatt · « **Reply #81 on:** November 09, 2005, 01:31:19 AM »

have these only been tested with 9v or is there thought that they can go 6v-12v like the ua5?

Matt

mmmatt · « **Reply #82 on:** November 09, 2005, 07:36:47 AM »

Quote from: boogie on November 09, 2005, 01:38:04 AM

Quote from: mmmatt on November 09, 2005, 01:31:19 AM
have these only been tested with 9v or is there thought that they can go 6v-12v like the ua5?

Matt

dude,

it asks for 9v on the input, the power supply that comes with it outputs 9v, the manual specifies 9v

why would you want to run anything but 9v?

its not like 9v is some exotic or expensive power source...give it what it wants!

=====
and people on this site wonder why they have all the "strange bugs" that they do when they try to do stupid shit like power a device designed for 9v with a 6v feed

boogie

chill out boogie... it was a simple and logical question. I've got 2 @ 8.4 / 3300 mah rc batts that I'm curious if I can use them. I'm just wondering if there is a power range and if it is the same as some edirol products.
Anyone have anything constructive to say about voltage?

Matt

bhtoque · « **Reply #83 on:** November 09, 2005, 04:04:19 PM »

I can't say for sure Matt, but since the UA-5 brick and UA-5 both list 9-12 and the R-4 runs on 9v internal and brick puts out 9, I'd be afraid to run it on 12.

I ran the shit out of the demo I had and never got an error, even with 5hrs straight at 24/96 for the Jammys. So it's safe to say that batt power is not a direct cause of drive issues.

JAson

mmmatt · « **Reply #84 on:** November 09, 2005, 05:28:55 PM »

Quote from: bhtoque on November 09, 2005, 04:04:19 PM

I can't say for sure Matt, but since the UA-5 brick and UA-5 both list 9-12 and the R-4 runs on 9v internal and brick puts out 9, I'd be afraid to run it on 12.

I ran the shit out of the demo I had and never got an error, even with 5hrs straight at 24/96 for the Jammys. So it's safe to say that batt power is not a direct cause of drive issues.

JAson

Thanks jason... I forgot that the ua5 actually listed 9-12. I was thinking it just said 9. I have 2 3300 mah 8.4 v rc's and a 5400 mah 9v dvd batt. No big issue for me except for helping with potential discharge rate issues.
As for the power thing, I'm thinking you were on the right track. Discharge rate can be a factor with some gear and running 3 2000mah batts in parallel is a best case scenario. I'm wondering if the other batt configs were the cause of some issues... track record seems wierd on this unit. I guess I'll be able to make my own assessments soon enough. If I run all 3 of my batts togther (like I ran my last rig) I will be at 8.7v (I think... but I can't remember how to do that math exactly). I'm sure that would be fine or at least nondamaging to the unit.

Thanks Jason
Matt

bhtoque · « **Reply #85 on:** November 10, 2005, 03:23:16 PM »

AFAIK, Nick ran the r-4 with just the 5400mha 9v dvd batt and had no problems either. That batt alone should give you enough run time for a whole show.

JAson

mmmatt · « **Reply #86 on:** November 10, 2005, 03:52:24 PM »

Quote from: bhtoque on November 10, 2005, 03:23:16 PM

AFAIK, Nick ran the r-4 with just the 5400mha 9v dvd batt and had no problems either. That batt alone should give you enough run time for a whole show.

JAson

cool... I think I read that in his review over at nickspicks. I may do som festi time this year and I'm preplanning. I have quite a few battey options though so I should be OK. I guess I'm just curious about the problems people have had. Hopefully mine will be glitch free as well.

Matt

bhtoque · « **Reply #87 on:** November 10, 2005, 04:04:58 PM »

The 3pk of 2000mha 9v rc packs from batteryspace was the best powering option I came up with.

I got the smart/fast charger and 3 3pks for around $100 from their ebay store.

JAson

sleepypedro · « **Reply #88 on:** November 10, 2005, 04:11:13 PM »

Quote from: mmmatt on November 09, 2005, 12:55:51 AM

Seeing all this hdd too slow stuff I'm wondering about power people are using. Couldn't the problems also be caused by the hd not getting enough juice?

no, i don't think so. consensus remains that 'HDD slow' only pertains to HD vibration.

Quote from: mmmatt on November 09, 2005, 12:55:51 AM

Louder shows would pull more juice with the pres,

is this even true? phantom power is either on or off, i don't think there's variable drain depending on the SPL.

Quote from: mmmatt on November 09, 2005, 12:55:51 AM

Has this ever happened on wall power or internal aa's.

the one time it happened to me i was on AC power.

and i'm with boogie, just feed it the 9v it very clearly states it requires.

mmmatt · « **Reply #89 on:** November 10, 2005, 05:42:07 PM »

Cool. Thanks guys

Nick Graham · « **Reply #90 on:** November 10, 2005, 06:12:33 PM »

The HDD slow is definitely caused by vibrations when NOT performing a "Check Disc" beforehand.

You can watch the error mesage flash in time with the level meter...

boa · « **Reply #91 on:** November 10, 2005, 06:30:12 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on November 10, 2005, 06:12:33 PM

The HDD slow is definitely caused by vibrations when NOT performing a "Check Disc" beforehand.

You can watch the error mesage flash in time with the level meter...

I "got it" on Halloween and believe it was caused by the vibrations of the balcony. I did a Check Disc after soundcheck and replaced the batteries but at the end of the BC/DC set, during the climax to Highway to Hell, my recording shot shite.

I love the R4 but I have to come up with a shockmount for it.

Hey - when did you get some 4061's?

sleepypedro · « **Reply #92 on:** November 10, 2005, 06:41:05 PM »

Quote from: Nick Graham on November 10, 2005, 06:12:33 PM

The HDD slow is definitely caused by vibrations when NOT performing a "Check Disc" beforehand.

You can watch the error mesage flash in time with the level meter...

agreed on the vibrations, but it has nothing to do with "check disc". i ran two sets the one and only night i had the issue, and inbetween sets -- having already blown the opening set -- i ran check disk TWICE and also opted to run 24/48 and not 24/96. still got 'hdd slow' during the headliner.

it's just about the vibrations, man

mmmatt · « **Reply #93 on:** November 10, 2005, 06:48:05 PM »

has anyone been able to replicate the error at home?

Matt

sleepypedro · « **Reply #94 on:** November 10, 2005, 09:45:07 PM »

Quote from: mmmatt on November 10, 2005, 06:48:05 PM

has anyone been able to replicate the error at home?

Matt

don't know if you read the big thread about 'hdd slow', but.... i tried to replicate it at home. couldn't.

pad the r4 if you're running onstage or on any hard surface that might react to high SPL. blanket, balloon, socks, what have you.

mmmatt · « **Reply #95 on:** November 11, 2005, 10:00:24 AM »

Quote from: sleepypedro on November 10, 2005, 09:45:07 PM

Quote from: mmmatt on November 10, 2005, 06:48:05 PM
has anyone been able to replicate the error at home?

Matt

don't know if you read the big thread about 'hdd slow', but.... i tried to replicate it at home. couldn't.

pad the r4 if you're running onstage or on any hard surface that might react to high SPL. blanket, balloon, socks, what have you.

Hopefully I'll be one of the lucky ones... I'll search for that thread later today.

Thanks
Matt

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #96 on:** February 21, 2006, 08:17:19 PM »

So, let me get something straight here. I just want to be sure I understood a few of the posts in here that relate to my question. Can I run an R4 off the exact same 9v LION DVD battery and adaptaplug cord I made and use with my UA5? The R4 takes 9v right? And the polarity of the R4 is set up the same way as the UA5 right? Thanks, I just want to be clear on that...

Also, this thread discussed the HDD Slow issue related to vibration. Has everyone found this to be a non-issue at this point? Or is this still a frustration for R4 owners?

mmmatt · « **Reply #97 on:** February 21, 2006, 08:25:43 PM »

Quote from: Tainted on February 21, 2006, 08:17:19 PM

So, let me get something straight here. I just want to be sure I understood a few of the posts in here that relate to my question. Can I run an R4 off the exact same 9v LION DVD battery and adaptaplug cord I made and use with my UA5? The R4 takes 9v right? And the polarity of the R4 is set up the same way as the UA5 right? Thanks, I just want to be clear on that...

Also, this thread discussed the HDD Slow issue related to vibration. Has everyone found this to be a non-issue at this point? Or is this still a frustration for R4 owners?

yes it is the EXACT same plug and it is 9v. I have yet to have the hdd slow issue. I haven't used it fob at a REALLY loud show yet, and I always have it set on padding as suggested in this and other threads.

Matt

Gedit · « **Reply #98 on:** June 24, 2006, 02:51:22 PM »

i'm wondering whether http://www.batteryprice.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=260 would work with the r4. anyone know?

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #99 on:** June 24, 2006, 03:20:06 PM »

That thing is $150! OMG, no. I got a 5400 mah for $22 and it lasts forever...

Gedit · « **Reply #100 on:** June 24, 2006, 03:23:56 PM »

that's why i'm asking

can someone give me a link to what others are using (not including the homemade do-it-yourself batteries - i'm not a fan of that option).

thanks

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #101 on:** June 24, 2006, 06:19:34 PM »

try doing a search on ebay for "universal DVD battery"
anything from 9-12v will work fine.

also, try pricegrabber w/the same search

BayTaynt3d · « **Reply #102 on:** June 24, 2006, 09:22:17 PM »

And remember when searching through TS, that any setup that'll power a UA5 will also work for the R4 without any modification.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #103 on:** June 25, 2006, 02:00:28 AM »

Quote from: BayTaper on June 24, 2006, 09:22:17 PM

And remember when searching through TS, that any setup that'll power a UA5 will also work for the R4 without any modification.

And remember that most gear polarity is (+) tip, (-) ring, but that the UA5 and R4 are the opposite: (-) tip, (+) ring.

Gedit · « **Reply #104 on:** June 25, 2006, 01:33:25 PM »

thanks guys

mmmatt · « **Reply #105 on:** June 26, 2006, 03:28:09 PM »

Quote from: BayTaper on June 24, 2006, 09:22:17 PM

And remember when searching through TS, that any setup that'll power a UA5 will also work for the R4 without any modification.

yes and no... ua-5 is 6v (I think... maybe 7) to 12v and the r4 (to the best of my knowlege) has not been tested below 9v. connector is exactly the same though.

Matt

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #106 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:49:55 PM »

i've not heard of anyone powering a ua5 w/any less than 9v

china_rider · « **Reply #107 on:** June 26, 2006, 07:59:15 PM »

FYI.. I've used the RC type batteries and the generic DVD ones

9.6v3000mAh RC battery = ~6hours with phantom and backlight on the enitre time
9.6v4500mAh DVD battery = ~9 hours with phantom and backlight on the entire time

RC batteries... generic brand (something like Tannergy) from www.all-battery.com... keep checking their weekly sales and you will eventually find a good deal on charger and batteries. I got 4Xbatteries and fast charger for a bit over $50+shippping.

The DVD battery is a lenmar got one from mmmMatt with my R-4 and picked up another off ebay for $45.

mmmatt · « **Reply #108 on:** June 27, 2006, 01:57:01 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on June 26, 2006, 07:49:55 PM

i've not heard of anyone powering a ua5 w/any less than 9v

I could be confused, but I thought someone here was running 7v rc's and I thought I remembered hearing 6v was OK. I ran 8v rc's w/o problem for a ua5 but never tried them with the r4... either way 9v is great for an r4 and is what people should seek out.

Matt

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #109 on:** June 27, 2006, 03:30:23 PM »

cool.
it probably does go down to 7v ish. (the ua5 that is).

balou2 · « **Reply #110 on:** July 01, 2006, 03:32:17 AM »

So I just redid my entire rig with NiMH batteries. Got two chargers, one through 7.2 V, the other for 7.2V and up. I had Ed @ Kindkables make me customer power connectors (which are ABSOLUTELY AWESOME!) with Tamia connectors, and rewired all the NiMH with Tamia(f) to match. Super easy ALL THEY WAY AROUND, interchangeable to a point, and all the same format. Lighter and smaller (overall) than carrying several LiIon's, and safer too.

I'm using THIS ONE for the R4. Bought it without the charger, and I'm getting well over 8 hours at 24/48 with the light on, using 4 channels. The quick charger will recharge in 3 hours, so I really will NEVER need a second, even for festivals. I've never ran over 8 hours of music in a day, even with the day being long.

FWIW, I am super happy FINALLY having all similar batteries with interchangeable chargers and small. Never again will I run an SLA or Ecocharge. Yippee!

balou2 · « **Reply #111 on:** July 01, 2006, 03:36:53 AM »

...I also ran 8 x Lithium AA batts (Energizer, non-rechargeable) and got the full show (3 hours) at 24/48, with light. It was stealth, so I ran just the 184s into the R4, and didn't have anything else- no battery packs, no big bags...nada. SUPER cool.

ford prefect · « **Reply #112 on:** July 25, 2006, 08:42:27 AM »

Quote from: balou2 on July 01, 2006, 03:32:17 AM

I'm using THIS ONE for the R4.

I'm looking at this one and can't tell from the screenshots - can you reverse the polarity on the tips by just turning it around on the cable? Kinda like the RS adaptaplug - it has two prongs, and you just reverse the way it plugs in. Or would you have to cut the cable to do that?

This is what the RS has:

Gedit · « **Reply #113 on:** July 25, 2006, 08:43:35 AM »

yes, the plug shown in that pic is reversible, and the CHUN-100DC11 in that link looks like it has reversible ones too

ford prefect · « **Reply #114 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:39:09 AM »

Quote from: Gedit on July 25, 2006, 08:43:35 AM

yes, the plug shown in that pic is reversible,

Yes, it is. That's the RS one that I own and use for the UA-5.

Quote from: Gedit on July 25, 2006, 08:43:35 AM

and the CHUN-100DC11 in that link looks like it has reversible ones too

How can you tell? I'm looking at them and I still can't see the other side of them in any of the pictures. All I can see is the plug end. I'd like to be sure before I consider buying this. I don't like the idea of rewiring the cable that's directly attached to the batteries and would like to avoid that if I can.

Thanks,

ford prefect · « **Reply #115 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:55:41 AM »

Ok, I think I see what you are looking at. Attached is a zoomed in [albeit fuzzy] shot of the end of the battery cable. Looks just like the end of the RS adaptacable with 2 slots for the plugs. Reverse the plugs to reverse polarity. Thanks George,

Gedit · « **Reply #116 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:56:29 AM »

generally, plugs that don't reverse polarity do not have a two-prong connector. they just snap-in one way. if you look at the CHUN-100DC11 plug, you can see it has two-prongs also. i might be wrong, but it looks like a connector that can be reversed.

Gedit · « **Reply #117 on:** July 25, 2006, 09:57:05 AM »

^ Ok, I think I see what you are looking at.

exactly

ford prefect · « **Reply #118 on:** August 16, 2006, 01:31:28 PM »

Quote from: ford prefect on July 25, 2006, 09:55:41 AM

Ok, I think I see what you are looking at. Attached is a zoomed in [albeit fuzzy] shot of the end of the battery cable. Looks just like the end of the RS adaptacable with 2 slots for the plugs. Reverse the plugs to reverse polarity. Thanks George,

Darn. Just got the battery with the adapters from my post above. Turns out that they can't be easily reversed like the Radio Shack adaptaplugs - the prongs on the plugs are 2 different sizes to prevent your average joe from reversing polarity by accident and frying something.

Just wanted to followup in case anyone else read this and considered these options. Still considering how I'm going to fix this.. Sorry for the tangent since this has nothing to do with runtimes.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #119 on:** August 16, 2006, 02:00:45 PM »

Quote from: ford prefect on August 16, 2006, 01:31:28 PM

Turns out that they can't be easily reversed like the Radio Shack adaptaplugs - the prongs on the plugs are 2 different sizes to prevent your average joe from reversing polarity by accident and frying something.

Just wanted to followup in case anyone else read this and considered these options. Still considering how I'm going to fix this.

I just cut the wires, swapped (+) and (-) on the UA5/R-4 connector side, and spliced them back together with wire nuts (see pic, no soldering). I folded the cable back on itself and secured it with tape on either side of the wire nuts to provide strain relief while the cable's in my bag. No problems so far, been about 2 years, I guess. And if I have a problem with the cable in the field, it's field-fixable with no tools: remove tape, re-fasten wire nuts, add new tape.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #120 on:** August 17, 2006, 07:59:04 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on June 27, 2006, 03:30:23 PM

cool.
it probably does go down to 7v ish. (the ua5 that is).

fwiw...
the ua5 will power up w/7v, but it will not provide phantom.
it needs 9v min.
not really related to the thread, but it was discussed on age 7-8

jebi · « **Reply #121 on:** August 24, 2006, 02:20:35 AM »

i just bought a r-4 and wallfarts battery..

i can't seem to get the extrenal bettery to work $:-\$ do i need to rig this thing?

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #122 on:** August 24, 2006, 02:33:14 AM »

Quote from: jebi on August 24, 2006, 02:20:35 AM

i just bought a r-4 and wallfarts battery..

i can't seem to get the extrenal bettery to work $:-\$ do i need to rig this thing?

The R-4, like the UA-5, has reversed polarity relative to most units and most batteries. Most units require, and most batteries and cables provide, (+) tip and (-) ring, whereas the R-4 and U5 take (-) tip and (+) ring.