Topic: Multi Mic Suggestions?

[leshlush]

Hey folks,

I'm running a multi mic mix this weekend and I had a few questions and would also appreciate some suggestions...

I have access to a set of AKG 451's, a set of SP C4s, an R09, a UA5, a JB3, a set of Line Matching Transformers, Art II 48V battery box, and all the necessary cables...

I was planning on running the 451s in DIN from DFC and the SP C4s as on stage split omnis... I plan to run the cards into the R09 to record just the audience source and then run the analog outs from the R09 into the UA5s rca inputs along with the SP C4s through the UA5s main inputs to be recorded on the JB3 as a multi mic mix... Before running the 451's into the R09, I was planning on running the batt box and then some Line Matching Transformers...

See diagram:



Legend:

" C "           =  AKG 451b's
" O "          =  SP C4s(omni caps)
Brown        =  JB3
Dark Green  =  Edirol UA5
Pink            =  Edirol R09
Orange       =  Art II Phantom(battery box)
Light Green =  Line Matching Xformers
Dark Blue    =  XLR Left
Red            =  XLR Right
Grey Equals =  1/8 cable
Light Blue   =  RCA
Purple        =  Optical cable

I have a few questions though...

First of all will I need to know is whether I should just skip the Line Matching Transformers and just rely on the R09s gain stage or whether I should include the Line Xformers to provide some line-level gain that can than be reinforced by the R09s gain stage?

What's a good height for the on-stage omnis?

I know that the R09 passes a digital out while recording but can it also pass an analog signal while recording? I assume it can but is that signal a direct passthrough or does it hit the ADC and DAC? I presume it isn't a pure passthrough but thought I would ask...

I also have a second optical cable and would be able to pass the optical siganl from the R09 to the UA5, but wouldn't that have two downsides? One, no way to attenuate the digital source coming into the UA5. And Two, the digital input would be sent through the UA5s DAC before being sent along w/ the analog signal back through the ADC.

Eitherway folks, any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks in advance

[leshlush]

The reason I want both the cardiod source and the multi-mic source as 2 independant recordings is so that if the multi-mic doesn't come out like I want it to, I at least have the Audience source still intact

[leshlush]

I might also add that it's a small club and that I can't forsee too many phasing issues... As well both of my cable runs should be about the same distance from mics to the recorders...

I'm also going in early w/ the band for an afternoon sound-check...

[leshlush]

^^^ Bump for some assistance...


Any help, suggestions, and answers to my questions would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks Folks

[Brian Skalinder]

First of all will I need to know is whether I should just skip the Line Matching Transformers and just rely on the R09s gain stage or whether I should include the Line Xformers to provide some line-level gain that can than be reinforced by the R09s gain stage?

No direct experience with the mics, phantom power, or R09, but offhand I'd use the line transformers rather than relying on the R09 for all the gain you may need.  See two answers down for why the question is moot if you take my advice.

What's a good height for the on-stage omnis?

I'm usually in the 3'-4' range.

I know that the R09 passes a digital out while recording but can it also pass an analog signal while recording? I assume it can but is that signal a direct passthrough or does it hit the ADC and DAC?

Dunno if the R09 passes through the analog output or not.  I doubt it.  There's no up-side to running through the R09's ADC and then DAC before sending the analog signal to the UA5.  If you really want to record the 2-ch audience mics independently as backup, I'd get cables / adapters and split the signal after the line transformers.  So, the chain would look like this:

                                               R09
                                             /
CC > phantom > line transformers > splitters
                                             \
                                               UA5

Assuming the R09 does not pass through the analog signal, this way you're sending the UA5 the analog signal direct from the mics/phantom/transformers instead of doing through the R09's ADC and DAC.  And if the R09 does pass through the analog signal, why bother keeping it in the chain...it's just one more potential point of failure for the 4-mic mix.

I also have a second optical cable and would be able to pass the optical siganl from the R09 to the UA5, but wouldn't that have two downsides? One, no way to attenuate the digital source coming into the UA5. And Two, the digital input would be sent through the UA5s DAC before being sent along w/ the analog signal back through the ADC.

I don't think the UA5 will accept simultaneous analog and digital inputs and mix the two together, so I think this question's moot.

[leshlush]

Thanks Brian, I hadn't even considered splitting the signal before the R09... +T for some great advice...

But here's a follow up question, by spliting the ananlog signal, will there be any noticeable deterioration?