Topic: Compression Question

[Josephine]

I've got a recording that has some pretty heavy applause in the left channel that will need to be compressed.
Should I compress just the left channel, or should I do both?
Thanks in advance.

[Chuck]

Let your ears decide. I'm guessing that both channels will need it, so it sounds the same on both channels, but trust your ears. They will tell you.

[bluntforcetrauma]

my 2 cents

1. dont master audio using headphones ( i am not saying you are) it distorts the entrie sound. always use good speakers
2. dont master audio late at night--your ears change range at night as the semicircular canlas fill with more fluid giving you a thuddy type of hearing.
3. trust your ears--

[jeromejello]

my 2 cents

1. dont master audio using headphones ( i am not saying you are) it distorts the entrie sound. always use good speakers
2. dont master audio late at night--your ears change range at night as the semicircular canlas fill with more fluid giving you a thuddy type of hearing.
3. trust your ears--

sounds like $0.03 

[Sparge Master]

I would do the same compression on both channels since it only kicks in when the threshold is met.

[John Kary]

my 2 cents

1. dont master audio using headphones ( i am not saying you are) it distorts the entrie sound. always use good speakers

I actually disagree with this, but only on one condition.  That condition being you have some headphones better than your typical phones you can buy at Best Buy.
I have had Sennheiser HD570 headphones for the last 2-3 years and listened to every type of music through them with probably a few thousand hours.  I know what music should sound like coming out of these phones, and I do master with them, and things come out great.

The rule I am trying to set is, know your equipment.  Listen to everything you can through your speaker or headphone setup you want to do mastering on.  There is a line to be drawn on equipment quality to do it with, but a decent pair of headphones costs a heck of a lot less than a decent pair of speakers.

[Chuck]

Bob Ludwig uses headphones during the mastering process. HD-580's according to Mike Grace. Of course most of the mastering is done with very nice monitors. I use HD-600's myself. I like to use them to check balance and timber.

[Roving Sign]

Is compression really what you want to use...? I would think some limiting + normalizing might work well also (which is sort of like compression...)

[Josephine]

Is compression really what you want to use...? I would think some limiting + normalizing might work well also (which is sort of like compression...)

After doing some research here on TS re loud clappers a while back (and speaking with a few folks here), I was under the impression that compression would be the best avenue for what I was trying to accomplish.  As I truly consider myself quite the novice when it comes to taping, I am always open to suggestion. 

[Brian Skalinder]

Is compression really what you want to use...? I would think some limiting + normalizing might work well also (which is sort of like compression...)

After doing some research here on TS re loud clappers a while back (and speaking with a few folks here), I was under the impression that compression would be the best avenue for what I was trying to accomplish.  As I truly consider myself quite the novice when it comes to taping, I am always open to suggestion. 

Compression and limiting are basically the same thing - think of limiting as compression simply with a very high ratio.  I'd try compressing both L and R, then just L, see how both sound and decide which your ears like best - that's what really matters, here.

[Brian]

limiting is not compression with a high ratio.  it can be but it is not soley that. 

[Brian Skalinder]

limiting is not compression with a high ratio.  it can be but it is not soley that.

So what else is it, when not?  I've only dabbled a bit in compression/limiting, so looking to learn here, not call you out...

[Brian]

you can put a limiter on a recording that does not allow it to go above say -.3dB and put the threshold at say -1dB.  This is only compressing the transient peaks above -1dB and "limits" your recording so that you do not go over 0dB or clip.

now i've seen compressors where if you push it hard, it has a "limiting" LED that lights up.  To me that "limiting" meant you were limiting the maximum headroom.  let me try to represent it graphically:

1. normal dynamic range:

-------------------------------------------------------------------- +
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|
|
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- -

2. compression type number 1 (no limiting) also known as "upward compression":

---------------------------------------------------------------------- +
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---------------------------------------------------------------------- -

in this example you've essentially compressed your waveform by raising the noise floor.

3. compression type 3(with limiting); also known as downward compression:



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- +
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

in this example you have "limited" the maximum dynamic range but maintained the same noise floor.  this is what people call limiting in terms of compression.

I mostly like to use the term limiting when referring to a "mastering limiter" as I described in the first sentance.

[Brian]

oh and then there's the fourth type we like to refer as "squashing"

that's when you limit the maximum level as well as raise the noisefloor.  you hear this on almost every major release today in the pop world 

[Chuck]

Technically a limiter is an audio compressor set at 10:1 or more. Most engineers use them to limit the absolute level of an instrument or recording.

[Brian]

Technically a limiter is an audio compressor set at 10:1 or more. Most engineers use them to limit the absolute level of an instrument or recording.

ahhh.....that's what i was forgetting.  They never really taught us that specific detail in my school.  All my teachers said that if we compressed anything with a ratio higher than 3:1 then we should just not be in the audio program ;

old school audiophile snobbery at it's finest

[Josephine]

Okay, guys . . . color me confused.
When I'm using Sound Forge and I use the Graphic Dynamics effect, what process is that?
Am I "compressing" or "limiting"?

[Brian]

Okay, guys . . . color me confused.
When I'm using Sound Forge and I use the Graphic Dynamics effect, what process is that?
Am I "compressing" or "limiting"?

it depends upon how much you are compressing......techincally

[Church-Audio]

The best way to handle level issues in a recording is not with compression most of the plugins suck anyway. I would use the level control for that side of the recording and somply draw the amplitude of the wav file down for that part of the applause that is too loud. Compression is not what you want to use if anything it would be a limiter. If you have to limit you should try just the side with the problem first, then try both sides the threshold for both sides will not be the same. It is very hard to tell you how to fix it with out hearing it first if you sent me some of the track i could fix it for you and tell you how I did it.

Chris Church

I've got a recording that has some pretty heavy applause in the left channel that will need to be compressed.
Should I compress just the left channel, or should I do both?
Thanks in advance.

[Josephine]

Thanks, Chris . . .  actually, thanks everybody for all the input.
I ended up doing whatever the hell I did (I don't know what to call it  ) to just the one track.
I'm happy with the results.

[Church-Audio]

Hey you sound like me in the studio I did what ever the hell I did and it sounded fine. In the end it does not mater how you do it as long as your happy, its all good. The most importaint thing to remeber about audio is there are very, very few rules and there is always more then one way to do things. Everyone who loves audio is learning every day about different ways to get the same job done. My whole thing is this use compression as a last resort. I always try to fix it with just level controls alot of computer based audio editing allows for drawing the amplitude of level of the wave form with a mouse. If i see a loud passage I try to do that first. As I find compression is very much an over used tool in the studio. And live for that matter, IMO

Chris Church

Thanks, Chris . . .  actually, thanks everybody for all the input.
I ended up doing whatever the hell I did (I don't know what to call it  ) to just the one track.
I'm happy with the results.

[Josephine]

I reduce one channel all the time, (for applause balancing).
I also expand the wav to a much closer view, and will selcltively remove single loud impulses from a loud clapper. Applause is so random that you'll never notice it having been removed, and even so, its just loud white noise, are you really listening to it?
A lot of my recordings get remastered to musical content only, and fade out from the start of the applause, and finish fading as the audience chills.
:shrugs:

Remove it, exactly how, Moke?

[Josephine]

Highlight and delete it. They are microsecond impulses, and will not effect the overall feeling of applause for that circumstance. Just plain and simple make it go away. You'll never hear the diff. try it.

You'd obviously do this to both tracks; right?
I'll give it a try, Mike.  Thanks. 

[Josephine]

yes, if you only do one channel, you'll end up with one track shorter than the other, and having some timing weird stuff going on. Definitely both channels at once!

Believe it or not, Mike, I actually had that one figured out for myself.
Can't believe I asked such a dopey question (that's what I get for thinking out loud  ).

[Church-Audio]

There is no such thing as a dopey question. We are all learning here not one of us knows everything.
I personally want to see more women involved in audio I am a father of twin girls they are 7 going on 20 and I teach them all about sound I take them to gigs and I want them to have every opportunity out there. I am not trying to be sexist I think woman have better ears then men.  Good luck with your tracks!

yes, if you only do one channel, you'll end up with one track shorter than the other, and having some timing weird stuff going on. Definitely both channels at once!

Believe it or not, Mike, I actually had that one figured out for myself.
Can't believe I asked such a dopey question (that's what I get for thinking out loud  ).

[Josephine]

You know, Chris, it blows me away how few women are involved, what a male-oriented hobby this really is.
Personally, I don't get it. 

[cleantone]

I am not trying to be sexist I think woman have better ears then men.

lips and eyes as well.

[Josephine]

I am not trying to be sexist I think woman have better ears then men.

lips and eyes as well.

Not to mention IQs.    <kidding, sort of> 

[RebelRebel]

Im just getting to where I feel safe using Compression and Limiting.

I use a 1:17 to 1 Compression ratio and set the limiter at -3 during the 2 ch mixdown and thats pretty much it.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Compression/

[Church-Audio]

I cant quote compression ratios because it depends on the song and what type of meteral being compressed. A safe rule of thumb is to use as little as possible with longer attack and longer release to avoid pumping. But again that depends on the software plugin I use real compressors or my UAD-1 card for doing that kind of thing. I have a pair of valley people limiters that are very good and transparent.
IMO the UAD-1 with a good plug in is very close to the real thing but not quite as good as a DBX 160 or Urei compressor. Nothing beats a real optical compressor. No plug in comes close but you have to have $2,000 atleast to have the real deal.

Im just getting to where I feel safe using Compression and Limiting.

I use a 1:17 to 1 Compression ratio and set the limiter at -3 during the 2 ch mixdown and thats pretty much it.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Compression/

[Josephine]

Im just getting to where I feel safe using Compression and Limiting.

I use a 1:17 to 1 Compression ratio and set the limiter at -3 during the 2 ch mixdown and thats pretty much it.

http://www.harmony-central.com/Effects/Articles/Compression/

Thanks for the link, Teddy.  That helps. 

[cleantone]

I cant quote compression ratios because it depends on the song and what type of meteral being compressed.

That is a good point. Like EQ or any processing really, it depends on what is needed and the source material. There isn't really any cookie cutter settings. The volume of the source material can vary a lot.

A safe rule of thumb is to use as little as possible with longer attack and longer release to avoid pumping.

A short attack can screw your highs and fast transients a lot. Something to bear in mind. For those of you starting to try this stuff. Next time you have a compressor over a mix shorten the attack all of the way and listen to what it does to your highs and transients. Then make it a bit longer while still focusing on the transients.

[RebelRebel]

I cant quote compression ratios because it depends on the song and what type of meteral being compressed.

I wasnt suggesting that she use those ratios, I was just saying that I always do.You are right about source material, but I dont record anything other than classical music, and those settings work perfectly for me. One of the engineers at telarc suggested those ratios to me, and ive used them ever since.

[BobW]

my 2 cents

1. dont master audio using headphones ( i am not saying you are) it distorts the entrie sound. always use good speakers

I actually disagree with this, but only on one condition.  That condition being you have some headphones better than your typical phones you can buy at Best Buy.
I have had Sennheiser HD570 headphones for the last 2-3 years and listened to every type of music through them with probably a few thousand hours.  I know what music should sound like coming out of these phones, and I do master with them, and things come out great.

The rule I am trying to set is, know your equipment.  Listen to everything you can through your speaker or headphone setup you want to do mastering on.  There is a line to be drawn on equipment quality to do it with, but a decent pair of headphones costs a heck of a lot less than a decent pair of speakers.

I, for one, cannot be sure of bass shape in phones.
So I use multiple playback, phones, car, home stereo, and, of course, my monitors.
That way, wierd resonances and other strangeness is less likely to occur.

My new mantra ?  All things considered, less bass is more as long as you can discern the bass lines and hear the kickdrum.
If I deviate from this, I am always very cautious.