Topic: Best Camcorder for low profile concert recording? Sony HDR-CX520V ?

[Datfly]

I am so impressed witht he image quality of a recent Roger Waters video that I want to try to video record a few shows on the down low while I audio as well.

The Waters show was recorded using a Sony HDR-CX520V   I will buy this in a heartbeat if it is stil the best but it is over a year old so I just wondered if
anyone else knows of something better?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX520V-Flash-Definition-Camcorder/dp/B002NR7CYU


Here is a link to the Waters video that is so superb it has been downloaded over 2,000 times!!  http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=324259

Thanks in advance for any info.
Datfly

[junkyardt]

I will buy this in a heartbeat if it is stil the best but it is over a year old so I just wondered if
anyone else knows of something better?

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX520V-Flash-Definition-Camcorder/dp/B002NR7CYU

well this may seem obvious but you click on that link and it says right there 'there is a newer model of this item':

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX550V-Definition-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B0031RGL1G/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

[beatkilla]

I have the 550v and two 500s.  Amazing cams. Just make sure to manually set your exposure.

[Datfly]

I have the 550v and two 500s.  Amazing cams. Just make sure to manually set your exposure.

I take it you then prefer the 500 over the 550?

Thanks,
datfly

[tailschao]

I wouldn't get any of the Sonys TBH. I can't remember anything specifc, but I'm pretty sure the low light is fairly unremarkable, and you seriously need every last drop you can get.

You need a Viewfinder (for stealthing this is invalueable most of the time), a true Progressive mode (this will allow the cam to open the shutter for twice as long as when shooting interlaced = more light), and, of course, a BIG sensor with a SMALL pixel count.

The CX550 has no progressive mode, and, from what I can tell from some quick research, the low light at 50i is roughly equal to the Panasonic TM700 also at 50i. But then the 25p mode on the Panny gives you more light, you get much more reach with the zoom, and it's $200 cheaper at amazon to boot. Also, the Apeture of the lens on the TM700 closes down to F2.8 on the long end, whereas the Sony closes down to F3.4. Yet more delicious delicious light for the Panny.

If I had to upgrade from my HV20, TM700 is where I'd go.

[beatkilla]

@datfly i prefer the 550v as it has built in 64gb flash memory. The 500 has 32gb . Do not get the harddrive version it is much larger.The sony 500   550v is outstanding in low light.It is just  as good as my sony fx1000 which is more than 3 times the cost.If you want better low light get a Canon 7 d. But for low pro the sony cx 550 is hard to beat.

[beatkilla]

Also to note the 500 has no mic input or headphone the 550 has both.The 500 has the wheel for exposure inside where the Lcd flips out while the 550 has the dial on the front of the cam.The 500 has no viewfinder and the 550 does. Both are the same in image quality.

[willndmb]

mic in is soooo worth it imo
for open shows you can run right from the recorder to the cam and have no post show dubbing

[Datfly]

Well for me it is between the Sony cx500v and the Panasonic TM700.
I want the 12X zoom of the Panny & the cleaness of the low light Sony.

Looking online I see there are several comparisons between the two but they seem biased
as there is the Panasonic group & the Sony group, much like Canon & Nikon! (See my Signature)

Has anyone zoomed to a stage at 10X from the back of an average arena?
Would it be all the stage only or could you get to a single performer? (obviously not kees to head but enough that they would be the highlight?)

I shot a few shows with my Sony TRV-350 Digital 8 and it had a superb 20X Optical zoom, but it's not HD, that's for sure.

Is there any one thing that would trump one or the other that I am missing?


Thanks,
datfly

[rastasean]

I'm a panasonic fanboy for their cameras but I like the sony m10 recorder, so I'm not completely opposed to sony. I wouldn't even consider a camera with out a viewfinder because its not always practical to use an LCD.
As its already been mentioned, the panasonic has an aperture at 2.8 at the widest zoom--very impressive.

get the panasonic and be done. 

Do you have a computer fast enough to handle the HD video from either camera?

[tailschao]

Well for me it is between the Sony cx500v and the Panasonic TM700.
I want the 12X zoom of the Panny & the cleaness of the low light Sony.

Looking online I see there are several comparisons between the two but they seem biased
as there is the Panasonic group & the Sony group, much like Canon & Nikon! (See my Signature)

Has anyone zoomed to a stage at 10X from the back of an average arena?
Would it be all the stage only or could you get to a single performer? (obviously not kees to head but enough that they would be the highlight?)

I shot a few shows with my Sony TRV-350 Digital 8 and it had a superb 20X Optical zoom, but it's not HD, that's for sure.

Is there any one thing that would trump one or the other that I am missing?


Thanks,
datfly

Honestly, I'm not convinced that the Sony is gonna look any better in low light. I'm not saying the Sony is bad, just not better. In terms of sensor, the sony is 1/2.88" @ 4.15 megapixels, and the Panny is three x 1/4.1" @ 3.05 each. Smaller sensors, but smaller pixel count on each too. And then you have, like I said in my last post, a true progressive mode allowing slower shutter speeds, and a faster lens throughout the entire zoom range. Seriously, unless anyone can prove me wrong, I would not expect for a second that the Sony is better in that respect.

The Panny has a viewfinder (seriously man, I'd be LOST without one), one of the most comprehensive range of manual controls you can ever find on a small amatuer camcorder (including a focus ring. I'd kill for a focus ring TBH), and the zoom actually goes up to 18x (with some trickery). Not digital zoom, just cropping the full sensor resolution image down instead of resizing. There shouldn't be any degredation with this, in theory, but I've never experienced it first hand.

Even discounting that, bear in mind that the Sony starts off wider angle, so ends at a wider angle too. The longest end of the zoom stops at the equivalent of 300mm. The Panny goes up to 420mm with just the 12x optical, and 630mm with the extra zoom. If you're shooting from opposite the stage in an arena, you'll need all you can get. It does start getting hard to keep steady past 400mm ish though. Yet another reason to use a viewfinder - hold it against your face, your face stabilises it.

I'm sure the CX500/550 is a perfectly fine piece of kit, but if I were you it's a no-brainer 

[Datfly]

The panasonic Viewfinder is not a tilt viewfinder so you would have to hold it to your eye to use it.
My old Sony had the viewfinder that would tilt up so I could record with the Sony in my lap & glance down to
zoom & shoot.

I have viewed a lot of the comparison videos and most do claim the Sony wins for noise free low light recording.
I will say the Roger Waters video is solid proof of that, but I have not seen a Panny concert video yet.

So yes, a little more research and I will decide.

I saw the Slow Motion & Time Lapse videos that look superbly cool!

Thanks again,
datfly

Well for me it is between the Sony cx500v and the Panasonic TM700.
I want the 12X zoom of the Panny & the cleaness of the low light Sony.

Looking online I see there are several comparisons between the two but they seem biased
as there is the Panasonic group & the Sony group, much like Canon & Nikon! (See my Signature)

Has anyone zoomed to a stage at 10X from the back of an average arena?
Would it be all the stage only or could you get to a single performer? (obviously not kees to head but enough that they would be the highlight?)

I shot a few shows with my Sony TRV-350 Digital 8 and it had a superb 20X Optical zoom, but it's not HD, that's for sure.

Is there any one thing that would trump one or the other that I am missing?


Thanks,
datfly

Honestly, I'm not convinced that the Sony is gonna look any better in low light. I'm not saying the Sony is bad, just not better. In terms of sensor, the sony is 1/2.88" @ 4.15 megapixels, and the Panny is three x 1/4.1" @ 3.05 each. Smaller sensors, but smaller pixel count on each too. And then you have, like I said in my last post, a true progressive mode allowing slower shutter speeds, and a faster lens throughout the entire zoom range. Seriously, unless anyone can prove me wrong, I would not expect for a second that the Sony is better in that respect.

The Panny has a viewfinder (seriously man, I'd be LOST without one), one of the most comprehensive range of manual controls you can ever find on a small amatuer camcorder (including a focus ring. I'd kill for a focus ring TBH), and the zoom actually goes up to 18x (with some trickery). Not digital zoom, just cropping the full sensor resolution image down instead of resizing. There shouldn't be any degredation with this, in theory, but I've never experienced it first hand.

Even discounting that, bear in mind that the Sony starts off wider angle, so ends at a wider angle too. The longest end of the zoom stops at the equivalent of 300mm. The Panny goes up to 420mm with just the 12x optical, and 630mm with the extra zoom. If you're shooting from opposite the stage in an arena, you'll need all you can get. It does start getting hard to keep steady past 400mm ish though. Yet another reason to use a viewfinder - hold it against your face, your face stabilises it.

I'm sure the CX500/550 is a perfectly fine piece of kit, but if I were you it's a no-brainer 

[rastasean]

I did notice the panasonic does not have a tilt viewfinder but I think its better than NO viewfinder because it also has an lcd screen.
where can you even buy the sony? b&h doesn't have it, adorama doesn't have it, and the only place that seems to have info on it is amazon.com.
what does the sony record onto?

tails points out that the panny has a focus ring, another reason why I would choose that camera.

read some of the reviews on the tm700
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674275-REG/Panasonic_HDC_TM700K.html

[Datfly]

I only looked up the Sony on Amazon but B&H does carry the CX550V  http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/671536-REG/Sony_HDR_CX550V_HDR_CX550V_64GB_HD_Handycam.html
The Sony does actually have a viewfinder as well. I am still digging & researching  but I am leaning towards the Panny at this point. 

datfly

I did notice the panasonic does not have a tilt viewfinder but I think its better than NO viewfinder because it also has an lcd screen.
where can you even buy the sony? b&h doesn't have it, adorama doesn't have it, and the only place that seems to have info on it is amazon.com.
what does the sony record onto?

tails points out that the panny has a focus ring, another reason why I would choose that camera.

read some of the reviews on the tm700
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674275-REG/Panasonic_HDC_TM700K.html

[willndmb]

limo window tint works great over the lcd but i too like to have a view finder
better battery life

[beatkilla]

The cx550v does have a viewfinder and a nice dial near the lens you can use it for focus,exposure,shutter speed,iris. It records to 64gb built in memory. You can add a  SD card also.You can disable the auto gain control for audio by choosing the low mic setting.  There is an unmentioned feature which is the ability to use a LANC controller.This works thru the a-v input.Bh photo has the adapter cable. I got from amazon the 8 button lanc remote controller for $25 and can control the zoom with multiple speed settings and control focus  etc.Great for use with tripod work .

[johnw]

Best low-pro camera? I'd say the Sony HXR-MC1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=607991&is=REG&A=details&Q=

[12milluz]

Best low-pro camera? I'd say the Sony HXR-MC1

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=607991&is=REG&A=details&Q=

That is sooooo cool!

[Shadow_7]

Just how down low?  Holding a camcorder even a small one for an hour at a time is a chore.  I like my FH1, but it's stabilization sucks, so without a monopod or table clamp or other means of taking the human out of the equation (for stabilization anyway), not that great of results.  Kodak Zi8 for that pocket thing, but no real zoom abilities on those types.  TM700 is probably the better cheap consumer camcorder, not to imply cheap.  And it has a fan which has it's own set of issues.  Go pro, american scientific and others in the helmet type cams.  Not always ideal as little to no zoom, super wide angle / fish eye lens by default, and other quirks.  But waterproof and other pluses.  For those it rained, or hot summer day and you sweat a lot things.  Or just that drink accident in the same bag as the video gear.  There's a few spy like cams, but battery life generally sucks and no sizeable sensors to do well in low light.  And like the helmet cams, no zoom ability.

[bluntforcetrauma]

DPA 4061 plus the video, one would have to give.  right? 4061 not the best from the back of the venue?  How are you planning on mixing the two to get the best out of both, location , location , location but where would that be?  i am just curious.

[Shadow_7]

Once you add video, the camera pretty much dictates your location.  Without options like a wide angle lens, fish eye lens, or tele lens to have a vote in that location, it is what it is.  Which seems to be 3x's away from a stage as the stage is wide without zoom for my camera.  Which for my OMNI stereo mics, doesn't leave much of a stereo image.  At least not without some form of baffle between the mics (head).  Definitely not ideal for audio.  But for the venue and genre I record, being behind most of the audience with a little elevation to the mics (stand + boom arm) is a good thing.  Lots of folks walking in front of the camera, but far fewer people behind you chucking popcorn or who knows what because you're blocking their view.  And if you have a crew, you can put the audio guy where it counts and swap audio in post.  But I don't play that well with others.

[shoestringconcerts]

limo window tint works great over the lcd but i too like to have a view finder
better battery life

This is exactly right, nowadays there are a zillion phones and digital cameras at shows,  how is someone going to notice your LCD open? just put a little tint on it and you will be fine. 

What you are noticing about the Roger Waters clips from Chicago is NOT a superior camera,  what you are seeeing is video shot by an experienced videographer who used the right settings for the conditions.  THAT is far more important than the camera. He also has the right seat to pull off a good video and appears to be using a real tripod.

Both the Sony 550 and Panasonic 700's are great cameras, when i made my choice I bought a TM700, slightly better low ligh performance and 12x vs 10x

[shoestringconcerts]

Just how down low?  Holding a camcorder even a small one for an hour at a time is a chore.  I like my FH1, but it's stabilization sucks, so without a monopod or table clamp or other means of taking the human out of the equation (for stabilization anyway), not that great of results. 

I own 2 Fh1's that i use for stationary shots,  they are EXCELLENT low light cameras bu they absolutely suck at stabilization

[kozakz]

I bought pana TM700 this summer. I am very pleased with the result. Even it's own mics records in quite reasonable quality. Of course at loud shows it fails, but i always feed an external source to the camera during the shows. I lower the input sensitivity to the minimum and adjust on my fostex or iriver the volumes.

I selected TM700 over Sony 550 due to it's manual control on the mic inputs.

[Shadow_7]

Just how down low?  Holding a camcorder even a small one for an hour at a time is a chore.  I like my FH1, but it's stabilization sucks, so without a monopod or table clamp or other means of taking the human out of the equation (for stabilization anyway), not that great of results. 

I own 2 Fh1's that i use for stationary shots,  they are EXCELLENT low light cameras bu they absolutely suck at stabilization

No argument from me on that.  But I use supplemental stabilization, even handheld.  It doesn't take much to accommodate stabilization, but what a difference it makes.  And that's a $500 option that I can live without at the next upgrade.  Plus not all people are shaky with a camcorder in their hands.  My 8yo nephew (at the time) used my FH1 without any assisting devices and you'd think that he used a set of rails or something.  For me, I need a mini-tripod to brace against my forearm or a bowling glove at a minimmum.  Age + Beer + Nerves = Footage in the style of an old wood roller-coaster.

[Datfly]

Mine is sitting wrapped under the tree at this very moment!  Can't wait to try my first concert with it.

Do you have any links to shows you have filmed?

Thanks,
Datfly

I bought pana TM700 this summer. I am very pleased with the result. Even it's own mics records in quite reasonable quality. Of course at loud shows it fails, but i always feed an external source to the camera during the shows. I lower the input sensitivity to the minimum and adjust on my fostex or iriver the volumes.

I selected TM700 over Sony 550 due to it's manual control on the mic inputs.

[Dr.FOB]

Here is the Encore from Loudon this summer.  TM700, 60i, OIS on, hand held.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABYv3KE_KmI
I've started checking zebra pattern exposure after this as every time Warren steps into that spot his features wash out...