Topic: Sony's new $600 recorder PCM-D50 PT II

[Belexes]

OK so I have done more searching on this forum and seems like Church Audio's ST-9100 is perhaps better than the DPA MMA6000 for using the DPA 4060 to the PCM-D50, right? From what I've read it seems it is smaller, cheaper and same sound quality. That's good news. One thing I don't understand though, is why do we need to use a preamp? Is it because this preamp is better than the one in the PCM-D50? And then, if the PCM-D50 is expensive (relatively) because it has a good preamp, if we are going to use this 9100 preamp why not use it with a recorder with no preamp (if there is such a thing) to save space and money?

TS is not a place to save money.   

The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics.  So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre.  I think it's well worth the money.

[Justinasia]

The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics.  So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre.  I think it's well worth the money.

Better than the pre in the D50? And then how about the UGLY. If that is the same audio quality, but smaller and cheaper, shouldn't I prefer the UGLY? Or am I missing something?

[headroom]

The Pre in the D 50 is outstanding below levels of 5.5. With a Digital RIAA Equaliziung you can even record with ur Platter Moving Coil or Magnet direct to the Mic Input. And its sounding super duper!

[stantheman1976]

The D50 has a very good on-board pre, but you are will going to need a battery box to power the mics.  So if you have to have one more piece of gear, why not make it the ST-9100? It can serve to power the mics as well as a pre.  I think it's well worth the money.

Better than the pre in the D50? And then how about the UGLY. If that is the same audio quality, but smaller and cheaper, shouldn't I prefer the UGLY? Or am I missing something?

The pre in the D50 is excellent but the D50 doesn't provide as much power as the CA preamp, or any other 9-12V preamp for that matter.  Having your mics powered properly will make a difference.  You can use a battery box which will power the mics and use the inernal pre on the D50 and will not be disappointed, but the CA pre will provide gain and power.

[headroom]

Ist s not about Power, its the Voltage 40XX needs 7.5 Volt D-50 delivers 2.6...

[Justinasia]

So it's only the power we need? Are you saying aside from power, the CA pre won't actually improve the sound? If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to just have something to power the mics, and go straight into the D50 to use its pre? (Is there such a thing?)

[Belexes]

So it's only the power we need? Are you saying aside from power, the CA pre won't actually improve the sound? If so, wouldn't it be cheaper to just have something to power the mics, and go straight into the D50 to use its pre? (Is there such a thing?)

Sound Professionals make some nice battery boxes, some with adjustable roll-off.  You could go mics>battery box>D50.  Things you see a lot of tapers do here aren't necessarily the cheapest but what we think will give us the optimal results.  Pre amps are important in this community as we are use to dealing with terrible built-in ones with the portable recorder market.  The D50 pre though is very acceptable though.

If you are concerned about size, the UGLY pre would be the way to go.

[Justinasia]

OK I get that you guys want quality - me too. But I can't understand yet. Is the UGLY/ST-9100 better than the pre in the D50? If so, then I can understand the value of gettin gone over just getting a battery box.

[Belexes]

I don't think anyone has done a comp yet of mics>bb>D50 and mics>9100>D50.  It sounds from your posts that you'd be happy with a battery box and it's your ears that count, not anyone elses.  Remember that if you tape loud shows, the 9100 just acts as a battery box.  The 9100 is more useful when using gain for acoustic or more quiet performances.

[headroom]

The MMA 6000 is not so good in terms of High End.
But the Batterybox can be done easely you just need 2 Microdots and a 9 V Battery.

7.5 V Open Circuit /0.75 mA current/  2.8 V Zener Voltage Across DPA/  3.3 K Ohm resistor,  minimum 2.2 k maximum 6.78 k Bias resistor 10 k is to high. The Micinput in parallel is aprox 1.5 k Ohm  10k Ohm  is just a joke

[flintstone]

In my opinion, the D50-'s preamp is better
(lower self noise, better limiter,  low mic
sensitivity still provides good gain)
than the Sound Professionals preamps.
So I'd use a battery box rather than the
more expensive external pre.

I'd advise you to try the D50's internal
mics before purchasing externals.  And
look for an audio store that will let you
try several mics before making a purchase
decision.  

Flintstone

[hypnotoad]

TS is not a place to save money.

Almost spit out my Red Bull over here.  Thanks.

[stantheman1976]

OK I get that you guys want quality - me too. But I can't understand yet. Is the UGLY/ST-9100 better than the pre in the D50? If so, then I can understand the value of gettin gone over just getting a battery box.

The main advantage of using an external preamp is if you need extra gain for quiet material.  If you get a CA9100 pre you can always put the switch to 0 and it will function as a battery box and you can still use the D50 internal pre.  If you need a little extra boost switch the 9100 to one of its gain setting and you've got some extra, clean boost to your signal.

[Justinasia]

So far no-one is recommending the UGLY over the ST-9100 then?

My recordings will be of quiet solo acoustic music, so perhaps one of these pre's may be useful.
Is it usual to connect DPA4060 > UGLY/ST-9100 > D50 via mic in then to get extra gain, rather than line in?

[stantheman1976]

If you're using an external preamp always go line in.  There's no need to use a preamp and go mic in, especially with a good quality preamp like the CA.  I think the 9100 has +30dB right?  That should be plenty for your applications.

I believe Chris Church said that the UGLY has the exact same circuitry as the 9100.  I think he made originally as a sort of experiment to see how small he could make a preamp IIRC.  Quality wise it's just as good as the 9100.  It's just made to be as compact as possible and not to look pretty.  At least that's how I remember it being explained.