Author Topic: CA11 & STC-9000 : Some questions and tips (Read 11230 times)

Andrea82 · « **on:** June 11, 2010, 03:41:57 PM »

Hello to all the community here

I have an Edirol R09HR and and recently I own also the stc-9000 pre-amp and the ca-11 mics from Church Audio.

I will use this configuration for the first time in july for Mark Knopfler, an outdoor concert.

Now, the settings for the R09 are ok, i have only some question about the preamp. He has 3 level for the gain range (0, +10, +30) and i don't know what is better for a concert.

Then a strange things...the ca-11 mics are cardioids or omnis?

If i hook them in my shirt is enough?

Thanks to you all

Greetings from Italy

Andrea

fmaderjr · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2010, 04:03:13 PM »

CA-11's can come with either omni or cardiod caps:
The easy way to tell is look at the side of the capsule there are holes with mesh screen covering them if they are cardioid. If they are omni they have no holes in the sides whatsoever.

For moderately loud to loud concerts the St-9000 should be set at +10 with the volume control turned all the way up. Occasionally 0 may be best for very very loud stuff. The HR, as you probably know, should be set around 38 (unity gain) unless you need a little more gain than the ST-9000 can provide.

If your mics are cardiod they should be pointed appropriately at the sound source. You won't get a good stereo image if randomly clipped to your shirt. (I mount mine inside the liner of a Kangol hat and keep my head from moving from side to side). If omni, the direction they point at isn't as critical, but you would get better stereo image if you can mount them using your head as a baffle.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2010, 04:39:34 PM »

Quote from: Andrea82 on June 11, 2010, 03:41:57 PM

Hello to all the community here

I have an Edirol R09HR and and recently I own also the stc-9000 pre-amp and the ca-11 mics from Church Audio.

I will use this configuration for the first time in july for Mark Knopfler, an outdoor concert.

Now, the settings for the R09 are ok, i have only some question about the preamp. He has 3 level for the gain range (0, +10, +30) and i don't know what is better for a concert.

Then a strange things...the ca-11 mics are cardioids or omnis?
If i hook them in my shirt is enough?

Thanks to you all

Greetings from Italy

Andrea

+30 Is for quiet sources around 80 to 102db ( this might not mean much to you )
+10 is for loud sources around 99 to 115 db
0 db is for REALLY loud sources around 109 to 124 db
The volume control on the 9000 should be at max unless you are using a camera input then you can attenuate to taste.

The high pass filter should be flat.

The mics must be as high up as possible, the higher the better and pointed at the sound source. We suggest a hat or eye glasses with your hair over top of the mics.

Chris

heyitsmejess · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2010, 07:44:27 PM »

Quote from: Church-Audio on June 11, 2010, 04:39:34 PM

The volume control on the 9000 should be at max unless you are using a camera input then you can attenuate to taste.

The high pass filter should be flat.

The mics must be as high up as possible, the higher the better and pointed at the sound source. We suggest a hat or eye glasses with your hair over top of the mics.

Chris

thats how i have always done it...crank the preamp all the way, and control the level on the recorder.
(i have to say, i have had some people get down right upset at me for saying that)

vanark · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2010, 08:53:31 PM »

Quote from: heyitsmejess on June 11, 2010, 07:44:27 PM

thats how i have always done it...crank the preamp all the way, and control the level on the recorder.
(i have to say, i have had some people get down right upset at me for saying that)

On the 9000? Yes, that is the way to run. On the 9100? Not so much (at least in my opinion). For the 9100, unity on the recorder and control the volume on the 9100 is how I've been told to do it (and have done it). Prior to getting the 9100, I had a 9000 and I ran it as you and Chris suggested.

Andrea82 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 12, 2010, 05:49:49 AM »

Thanks for all the useful comments.

Now, i have the latest two pair of questions, and for a optimal understand I have attached a photo with some explain requested.

Here the link (yes, i have the 1st and only italian site about EC

)

http://www.ericclapton.it/ca-11.jpg

Thank you so much again

fmaderjr · « **Reply #6 on:** June 12, 2010, 06:44:35 AM »

Yes to all your questions except that cards don't record just the sound that is in front of them. They will record some crowd chatter/noise behind them but it will be attenuated (as opposed to omnis that basically record sounds in front of them and behind them at the same level).

Use the windscreens since recording outdoors, but if moderately windy I wouldn't expect them to help too much. I haven't had much luck with cheap foam windscreens. You really need to cover the windscreens with one of those furry windjammer type things to cut down wind noise noticeably.

Andrea82 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 12, 2010, 07:02:26 AM »

Quote from: fmaderjr on June 12, 2010, 06:44:35 AM

Yes to all your questions except that cards don't record just the sound that is in front of them. They will record some crowd chatter/noise behind them but it will be attenuated (as opposed to omnis that basically record sounds in front of them and behind them at the same level).

Use the windscreens since recording outdoors, but if it moderately windy I wouldn't expect them to help too much. I haven't had much luck with cheap foam windscreens. You really need to cover the windscreens with one of those furry windjammer type things to cut down wind noise noticeably.

You're very kind, now the situation is more clear :-)

MSTaper · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2010, 09:46:02 PM »

I haven't recorded with my CA-11 > STC-9000 > R-09 rig in a while and used it last night at an outdoor show (my son took the Avantone CK-1 > Fostex FR-2LE rig to Bonnaroo) and I have forgotten what the "unity gain" was on the R-09. I thought it was 15 or 16 and I think I ran it at 16. I was about 30' from the stage, DFC/FOB. It was fairly loud, but to get decent levels without adjusting the input on the R-09, I had to switch the STC-9000 gain to +30. At +10 it just looked too low.

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?

Still happy this little rig will get nice recordings when I need it.

MSTaper

Andrea82 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2010, 03:54:54 AM »

Quote from: MSTaper on June 12, 2010, 09:46:02 PM

I haven't recorded with my CA-11 > STC-9000 > R-09 rig in a while and used it last night at an outdoor show (my son took the Avantone CK-1 > Fostex FR-2LE rig to Bonnaroo) and I have forgotten what the "unity gain" was on the R-09. I thought it was 15 or 16 and I think I ran it at 16. I was about 30' from the stage, DFC/FOB. It was fairly loud, but to get decent levels without adjusting the input on the R-09, I had to switch the STC-9000 gain to +30. At +10 it just looked too low.

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?

Still happy this little rig will get nice recordings when I need it.

MSTaper

Thank you for your experience !

fmaderjr · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2010, 07:30:14 AM »

Quote from: MSTaper on June 12, 2010, 09:46:02 PM

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?
MSTaper

The ST-9100 is going to provide cleaner gain than the R-09, so if you can set it at +30 with the R-09 at unity gain without your meters going over 0 dB, that's the way to go. There was much argument here about the R-09's unity gain, but I believe the general consensus was that it is 13. You definitely wouldn't want the ST-9000 at +30 if you had to set the R-09 below 13 to keep the meters from going over 0 dB. Then you might be getting distortion (the ST-9000 itself might be overloading).

heyitsmejess · « **Reply #11 on:** June 14, 2010, 07:22:26 AM »

Quote from: vanark on June 11, 2010, 08:53:31 PM

On the 9000? Yes, that is the way to run. On the 9100? Not so much (at least in my opinion). For the 9100, unity on the recorder and control the volume on the 9100 is how I've been told to do it (and have done it). Prior to getting the 9100, I had a 9000 and I ran it as you and Chris suggested.

the 9100 has 10db less gain than the 9000.
the 9100 is supposed to be "cleaner" gain than the previous models.
what would the difference be?

not trying to argue, just trying to get your take on it.

vanark · « **Reply #12 on:** June 14, 2010, 07:33:26 AM »

The 9000 is fixed gain and the 9100 is variable gain. So, if you are going to add 10 dB, you might as well add it and then adjust it on the recorder. Adjusting the knob on the 9000 only attenuates the output - the gain has already been added to the signal. On the 9000 I would only use the +30dB at an acoustic show since that is a heck of a lot of gain to be adding, so while it does have 10 more dB than the 9100, the 9100's is variable and I can add just what I need and no more.

Church-Audio · « **Reply #13 on:** June 14, 2010, 12:08:42 PM »

I am going to be making a 9000II it will have gain from 0 db or unity to +35 db in 6 steps so you can adjust it the way you need it, It will also have a output level control so it will work as an attenuator for video cameras. The cost will be $179 because its got more "parts" in it. The opamps will be the same as the 9100. And it will output a 9 volt dc for plug in power. I will have the first one available next week for sale.

Chris

MSTaper · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2010, 11:27:35 PM »

Cool, Chris. Will you be offering a trade-in for those of us with the old 9k?

MSTaper

Church-Audio · « **Reply #15 on:** June 15, 2010, 01:38:56 AM »

Quote from: MSTaper on June 14, 2010, 11:27:35 PM

Cool, Chris. Will you be offering a trade-in for those of us with the old 9k?

MSTaper

I might.

NSL · « **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2010, 12:40:32 AM »

What does the HPF do on the CA9000? I've had it on for my two recordings but was curious as to what difference it makes in a recording.

fmaderjr · « **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2010, 03:57:03 AM »

Quote from: concordniners on July 02, 2010, 12:40:32 AM

What does the HPF do on the CA9000? I've had it on for my two recordings but was curious as to what difference it makes in a recording.

If it's the same as the ST-9100's, which it probably is, it starts to roll off the bass below 100 HZ. If using cardiods mics always leave it off. There are times it can help with omnis,which pick up more bass than cards, but I would usually leave it off with those as well and reduce the bass in post, if necessary. Chris says you can use it with omnis to reduce wind noise or at loud rock concerts with excessive bass in the mix.

guitard · « **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2010, 09:08:05 PM »

Quote from: MSTaper on June 12, 2010, 09:46:02 PM

I haven't recorded with my CA-11 > STC-9000 > R-09 rig in a while and used it last night at an outdoor show (my son took the Avantone CK-1 > Fostex FR-2LE rig to Bonnaroo) and I have forgotten what the "unity gain" was on the R-09. I thought it was 15 or 16 and I think I ran it at 16. I was about 30' from the stage, DFC/FOB. It was fairly loud, but to get decent levels without adjusting the input on the R-09, I had to switch the STC-9000 gain to +30. At +10 it just looked too low.

The recordings sound fine, but should I have switched the STC-9000 to +10 and just raised the input on the R-09 until I got levels I liked or just kept the R-09 at 16 (which might NOT even be unity gain) and boosted the set in Wavelab?

Still happy this little rig will get nice recordings when I need it.

MSTaper

I use the same setup, except I have the CA-9100 pre.

What I'm about to say doesn't speak directly to your post, but I still think it's worth adding.

After a few recordings of mine turned out to be recorded at a volume level that was much lower than what I wanted - lately, I've been recording everything in 24bit. I just recorded a show a few days ago. I had to boost in 19DBs to get it where I wanted it. Since it was recorded in 24bit, there was no hiss or other anomalies (that I could hear), even though I increased the volume as many DBs as I did.

I have a couple of 16GB SD cards - so space is never a problem. I'm going to continue recording in 24bit so that I can "recover" more easily when I don't record at the correct volume.

NSL · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2010, 12:06:24 PM »

What are some good rechargeable batteries/chargers to go with a CA9000? I was looking at the Maha/Powerex 9.6v, but i'm not sure which charger would be best to go with it.

fmaderjr · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2010, 12:13:45 PM »

Google is your friend.

Per Thomas Distributing:
We strongly recommend the use of the New MAHA POWEREX 10 CHANNEL COMMERCIAL 9V FAST / SMART CHARGER - MH-C1090F or the NEW MH-C490F 4 Cell 9V model. Other chargers will not bring this 9.6V to full voltage unless they have a charging output voltage of at least 10 .5 volts while charging ( under load ) and may shorten the rechargeable batteries useful life.

Andrea82 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 10, 2011, 05:57:48 AM »

Hello to all!

I have the ca-11 cardioids and the preamp ca-9000.
In the edirol r09hr it's better to use the "line in" plug?

vanark · « **Reply #22 on:** November 10, 2011, 06:42:04 AM »

Quote from: Andrea82 on November 10, 2011, 05:57:48 AM

Hello to all!

I have the ca-11 cardioids and the preamp ca-9000.
In the edirol r09hr it's better to use the "line in" plug?

Generally, yes.

guitard · « **Reply #23 on:** November 10, 2011, 08:42:47 AM »

Quote from: Andrea82 on November 10, 2011, 05:57:48 AM

Hello to all!

I have the ca-11 cardioids and the preamp ca-9000.
In the edirol r09hr it's better to use the "line in" plug?

If you haven't already done so, put on a pot of coffee and read the Edirol thread (all four sections).

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #24 on:** November 10, 2011, 10:56:48 PM »

For quiet stuff run mic-in on the R09

Chuck · « **Reply #25 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:04:17 PM »

I just got an STC-9000 in a trade.

I haven't recorded with it yet so I can't say for sure, but I don't hear any change in levels when twisting that knob in the middle of the top. Mine has a +10 - 0 - +30 switch. So, the "volume" knob just turns it on, is that right?

Church-Audio · « **Reply #26 on:** June 19, 2012, 11:24:01 AM »

Quote from: Chuck on June 18, 2012, 10:04:17 PM

I just got an STC-9000 in a trade.

I haven't recorded with it yet so I can't say for sure, but I don't hear any change in levels when twisting that knob in the middle of the top. Mine has a +10 - 0 - +30 switch. So, the "volume" knob just turns it on, is that right?

No the volume knob is a VOLUME

and reduces to almost off to full output. There is no way its not working because if its not working that means its ether bypassed or its not in the circuit. And I dont build them bypassed or not in the circuit

Chuck · « **Reply #27 on:** June 19, 2012, 11:29:18 AM »

OK, cool. Thanks for the info Chris. I only tested it by sticking a pair of cheap headphones into the output with the mics plugged in. It sounds like I need to always run that knob wide open (fully clockwise), is that right? So after it clicks ON I just turn it all the way up and I'm good.