Topic: Tapers: Should we be guest listed if someone asks you to tape a show

[MSTaper]

I'm talking about local shows, the $5-$10 shows that you might or might not go to anyway.
If it's a band I really like, I'll pay the cover and tape.
 
It's not so much the money, but the work involved AFTER the show, especially when there are three bands to transfer, track, upload, etc. Even if you don't upload it, there's a fair amount of time and work involved. Is it too much to expect to be placed on the guest list for this?


MSTaper

[acidjack]

I'm talking about local shows, the $5-$10 shows that you might or might not go to anyway.
If it's a band I really like, I'll pay the cover and tape.
 
It's not so much the money, but the work involved AFTER the show, especially when there are three bands to transfer, track, upload, etc. Even if you don't upload it, there's a fair amount of time and work involved. Is it too much to expect to be placed on the guest list for this?


MSTaper

I'm always happy to pay to go to shows I want to go to, but I have no problem accepting a guest list spot.  If a band asks me rather than the other way around, I tend to assume that means they're guest listing me, and I usually confirm that.  You're performing a service; they don't have to "pay" you (you're not a professional, anyway) but if they think enough of your recordings to ask you to come, the least they can do is use one of their list spots for you.

[page]

I'm talking about local shows, the $5-$10 shows that you might or might not go to anyway.
If it's a band I really like, I'll pay the cover and tape.
 
It's not so much the money, but the work involved AFTER the show, especially when there are three bands to transfer, track, upload, etc. Even if you don't upload it, there's a fair amount of time and work involved. Is it too much to expect to be placed on the guest list for this?


MSTaper

I'm always happy to pay to go to shows I want to go to, but I have no problem accepting a guest list spot.  If a band asks me rather than the other way around, I tend to assume that means they're guest listing me, and I usually confirm that.  You're performing a service; they don't have to "pay" you (you're not a professional, anyway) but if they think enough of your recordings to ask you to come, the least they can do is use one of their list spots for you.

Ditto, the litmus test I use is "is this work" in the same vein as the saying; "work is things we would not normally do"

If I want to go to the show, I go and pay my way. If it's work (and I'm on the hook to produce a product of some sort afterward), I don't pay to get in. Second, if it is work, the group that guestlists or provides compensation is the group I'm focused on recording and producing something for in a timely manner. The rest (opening acts, other headliners, etc) aren't within scope and I'll do stuff when I get a chance.

This is actually why I try and avoid guestlisting; I don't owe anyone anything at that point so if the equipment dies or it doesn't turn out, I'm in the good. It also puts more money in the bands pocket or the venues which helps the smaller places.

[newplanet7]

If I like the band, and would have gone anyway? I'll pay 5-10 bucks to help out my friends.
If the band asks and I'm indifferent? I need to learn to say no. I record, wish I could leave, and never get around to mastering/tracking/encoding it.
If the ticket is in the 20-30 range? I'll go for guestlist every time. If I like some of the merch, I'll give them money that way.

YES!!!!!!!

I'm always happy to pay to go to shows I want to go to, but I have no problem accepting a guest list spot.  If a band asks me rather than the other way around, I tend to assume that means they're guest listing me, and I usually confirm that.  You're performing a service; they don't have to "pay" you (you're not a professional, anyway) but if they think enough of your recordings to ask you to come, the least they can do is use one of their list spots for you.

Spot on.

[ScoobieKW]

If I like the band, and would have gone anyway? I'll pay 5-10 bucks to help out my friends.

If the band asks and I'm indifferent? I need to learn to say no. I record, wish I could leave, and never get around to mastering/tracking/encoding it.

If the ticket is in the 20-30 range? I'll go for guestlist every time. If I like some of the merch, I'll give them money that way.

[hoppedup]

If you're asked to tape, I think a guest list spot is in order.  A +1 or some beers is a nice bonus.

I've been to local shows with smaller bands where I was on the list and the crowd was very light. In that case I go back to the door and pay the cover, especially if I know the band is working for the door.

I have taken guest list spots for shows I normally wouldn't have gone to (Little Feat comes to mind, $32) but knew I would enjoy.

I do get peeved when I'm supposed to be on the list and get bumped by wives, girlfriends, or groupies. I do understand they are providing a service that I am unwilling to perform.

[John Willett]

I'm talking about local shows, the $5-$10 shows that you might or might not go to anyway.
If it's a band I really like, I'll pay the cover and tape.
 
It's not so much the money, but the work involved AFTER the show, especially when there are three bands to transfer, track, upload, etc. Even if you don't upload it, there's a fair amount of time and work involved. Is it too much to expect to be placed on the guest list for this?

If the band, or their management have asked you to tape the show, you should get free entry - no question.

You are not going to the show for your pleasure, you are going to do a job of work to record the show.

[stevetoney]

Agreed...and I've gone to a show or two where they asked me to record, but then when I got to the door I wasn't on the list, so I turned around and went home rather than paid.  It's kinda the principal of the thing.  I'm on my time when you've asked me to come, so getting in w/o paying is the ante.  Kinda rude if I drive to the venue to discover you didn't even put me on the list.  So, the lesson learned from those experiences is to make sure a guest list spot is the agreement up front so there's no misunderstanding.  If they want you to pay, I'd be up front saying no thanks.

[SxPxDxCx]

For cheap shows like that it depends on who is playing and what kind of relationship I have with them.  If they asked me to come down and record it's nice to get on the list but if there are other bands on the bill or out of town bands I don't ever mind paying the cover. 

[Chuck]

As John pointed out. If they ask you to do work, they should give you something.

When I was a working news photographer I got asked to shoot weddings all the time. I always asked for something in return.

If you do a job for free that someone usually does and should get paid for, you dilute the market for the professionals that make money performing that work.

So, If I shot weddings for free, I took away from the guys that actually make a living doing it.

[MSTaper]

If you're asked to tape, I think a guest list spot is in order.  A +1 or some beers is a nice bonus.

I've been to local shows with smaller bands where I was on the list and the crowd was very light. In that case I go back to the door and pay the cover, especially if I know the band is working for the door.

I have taken guest list spots for shows I normally wouldn't have gone to (Little Feat comes to mind, $32) but knew I would enjoy.

I do get peeved when I'm supposed to be on the list and get bumped by wives, girlfriends, or groupies. I do understand they are providing a service that I am unwilling to perform.

I see a lot of this where I live. Certain bands here do guest list me, but others will guest list people who just stand around and talk. I'm working before, during and after. That should be worth $5. But when I plan to go, like last weekend, I don't mind paying the $5 because I know these guys need it. Plus, it was a really good show. A guy promoting a local show asked if I was coming (and taping). I get this every now and then and while $5 isn't much, it adds up if you are asked to come to several shows. Not to mention, I know how much work it will take after the fact, which is the real issue.

MSTaper

[bryonsos]

If you're asked to tape, I think a guest list spot is in order.  A +1 or some beers is a nice bonus.

I've been to local shows with smaller bands where I was on the list and the crowd was very light. In that case I go back to the door and pay the cover, especially if I know the band is working for the door.

I have taken guest list spots for shows I normally wouldn't have gone to (Little Feat comes to mind, $32) but knew I would enjoy.

I do get peeved when I'm supposed to be on the list and get bumped by wives, girlfriends, or groupies. I do understand they are providing a service that I am unwilling to perform.

I see a lot of this where I live. Certain bands here do guest list me, but others will guest list people who just stand around and talk. I'm working before, during and after. That should be worth $5. But when I plan to go, like last weekend, I don't mind paying the $5 because I know these guys need it. Plus, it was a really good show. A guy promoting a local show asked if I was coming (and taping). I get this every now and then and while $5 isn't much, it adds up if you are asked to come to several shows. Not to mention, I know how much work it will take after the fact, which is the real issue.

MSTaper

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

[yltfan]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

This.
You want me to tape, you need to make sure I don't get any hassles.

[MSTaper]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

This.
You want me to tape, you need to make sure I don't get any hassles.

Great point!

[ellaguru]

i generally show up when the band does so ive never really had to pay a cover

[Myco]

I agree with all of what is said here.

I'd also add, I wish fans who are not connected with the band in any way would not place ISO's for tapers just because they want a show taped. I guess it's semantics, but it always kinda peeved me a bit when the "Find a Taper" Forum is used by some random fan looking for a taper to stealth or open tape a show. Maybe I'm wrong, but I look at the "Find a Taper" forum as a place for people connected with bands to find someone to tape a show in exchange for a guest list spot or some other type of consideration, at least I that's what the intent of the forum was.

[bryonsos]

^^ Those ISOs are annoying.

Related story to GLing. My favorite local/up and coming band won a battle of the bands. They got to open for the B-52s (not taper friendly) at Koka Booth. This is where Futhur played last month, and a venue that routinely gets bigger national acts. The band asked me to tape, but didn't offer a GL spot. They assured me that I would be able to gear gear in to open tape, they were kean to have it recorded, so I agreed. I ended up buying a ticket from their manager at ~1/2 cost, but still $30. No biggie, love the band. I show up with Walstib62 unannounced, who gets the same discount from the manager. We get in through the volunteer entrance at gate time, so no line. We're setting up, and the promoter and the band's manager show up and give us VIP lanyards. Free food, free microbrews = happy tapers  They made us tear down after the set, so we of course spent the rest of night VIPing it.

[acidjack]

^^ Those ISOs are annoying.

Related story to GLing. My favorite local/up and coming band won a battle of the bands. They got to open for the B-52s (not taper friendly) at Koka Booth. This is where Futhur played last month, and a venue that routinely gets bigger national acts. The band asked me to tape, but didn't offer a GL spot. They assured me that I would be able to gear gear in to open tape, they were kean to have it recorded, so I agreed. I ended up buying a ticket from their manager at ~1/2 cost, but still $30. No biggie, love the band. I show up with Walstib62 unannounced, who gets the same discount from the manager. We get in through the volunteer entrance at gate time, so no line. We're setting up, and the promoter and the band's manager show up and give us VIP lanyards. Free food, free microbrews = happy tapers  They made us tear down after the set, so we of course spent the rest of night VIPing it.

Those are always the best kind of shows!

[ellaguru]

^^ those surprise bonuses are always the best.  especially when it involves free alcohol

....and to edit myself back on topic.  i actually dont think ive *ever* been asked to come record a show.

[page]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

This.
You want me to tape, you need to make sure I don't get any hassles.

note the cables, bag, stand, oh, and that thingy around it all that says "I'm insurance against random yahoos bothering this because I have to produce something."

This was taken at a show where the band wanted to put out a live album and asked me to do it (8 tracks, you see the two main channels and stand below). This was work, and while I really like the band, it's work.

[SmokinJoe]

Most of my local clubs I walk in, they know me... if I'm there, I'm probably with the band of the night, and they don't hit me up.  But there are a couple local clubs that I know are on the edge financially, if I don't pay and they go out of business, I feel bad, so I'll pay at those clubs.  Or spend money on merch, as previously recommended.

[MSTaper]

Thanks for all the good answers, guys.

MSTaper

[newplanet7]

I agree with most of this thread and about GL taping of medium/larger sized gigs.
If it's a local band who I haven't heard and are not getting much $ I don't ask/expect/demand a guest list spot.
Usually this situation has arisen in the past when I show up to tape the headliner and the other band is either an opener or a member
of the group happens to be there as a fan and sees me taping. The said member approaches me and says something to the affect
of "we have a show coming up if you want to tape, we would appreciate it."

I don't think a $5 cover is deserving of a GL spot. That's just silly to expect one or ask for one.
I also think that it's sad if that would be the deciding factor for any taper to go or not. You either want to go and check it out and
enjoy your hobby or you decline the offer and tell them you are primping your pubes that night.
You're either interested in doing it or not. You either would go see that band out of curiosity or rather go elsewhere.
In no way for A $5 show for a local band should this be an issue.

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

[John Willett]

The only thing I have to add is if you ask me to tape, I want to be walked in early so I can get the sweet spot, sort out SBD feed etc., that's worth more to me than a $5 cover.

Of course, that goes without saying.

You always need to arrive well before the event and not with the crowd.

[acidjack]

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

I wouldn't necessarily go see a band I didn't like just because of a guest list spot.  But I'm in the situation where there is probably more than one band I could go see in a night - or at least, there are other shows I could go to in the week that I won't go to because I can't go to shows every single night.  So going to one band's particular show is a decision.

And really, you don't think it's work to some degree?  My time at a show I got listed for on Weds looked like this:

7pm: Rush to get home from work.
7:45pm: Leave extremely early to get to venue when told, although doors aren't until 9pm.
7:45-9:30pm: Set up, then wait around.
12pm: end
1230pm: break down

Another 2-3 hours: Mix down recording, track it, write post, edit photos, post. 

If I were not taping, my night would have looked a whole lot shorter.

I do this for fun, but it's certainly an investment of time. If you ask me to do it, you're asking me to commit a lot of time to it.

And as to the amount of the cover, I support the club by buying beer and/or food (if they have it), usually, which costs a lot more than the ticket.  And I rarely if ever record a band whose record(s) I don't own, either through iTunes, bandcamp, or buying the vinyl at the show.  In fact, that same band on Weds was nice enough to try and give me something, but I'd already paid for all the records they were selling (they only have 2 albums). Guest list spots are not something that really "costs" anyone anything because the club allots the band a certain number in advance, usually, and guest list spots are calculated out of their projected revenues before the show even happens.

That said, I am all for supporting both artists and venues financially. As I said, I'm always happy to buy a ticket and pay my way. Also, that reduces the stress if I end up having to bail - I don't "owe" anyone anything.

[Myco]

I agree with most of this thread and about GL taping of medium/larger sized gigs.
If it's a local band who I haven't heard and are not getting much $ I don't ask/expect/demand a guest list spot.
Usually this situation has arisen in the past when I show up to tape the headliner and the other band is either an opener or a member
of the group happens to be there as a fan and sees me taping. The said member approaches me and says something to the affect
of "we have a show coming up if you want to tape, we would appreciate it."

I don't think a $5 cover is deserving of a GL spot. That's just silly to expect one or ask for one.
I also think that it's sad if that would be the deciding factor for any taper to go or not. You either want to go and check it out and
enjoy your hobby or you decline the offer and tell them you are primping your pubes that night.
You're either interested in doing it or not. You either would go see that band out of curiosity or rather go elsewhere.
In no way for A $5 show for a local band should this be an issue.

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

The time spent is worth more than $5 Todd. I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than $5 for approximately 5 hours spent in travel/gas, setup, record, breakdown, transfer, post processing (resampling/dithering/tracking), uploading. That's less than a buck an hour, more like a loss of money, so I'd say a guestlist spot is a minimum requirement if I'm "asked" to tape a show. If I "choose" to record a show on my own accord I expect no type of consideration, that's my choice. The five bucks isn't really the issue, it's the request of my time invested that would cause the expectation of at least a little consideration, that's worth even more than the $5 that I would have paid them to see them on my own accord. I also upload shows on my own schedule and seldom get them out next day or even within the same week, (as you know quite well  ), but if I'm asked to record a show & guest listed, I make time to get it right out there within 48 hrs.

[page]

Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

The time spent is worth more than $5 Todd. I don't know about you, but my time is worth more than $5 for approximately 5 hours spent in travel/gas, setup, record, breakdown, transfer, post processing (resampling/dithering/tracking), uploading. That's less than a buck an hour, more like a loss of money, so I'd say a guestlist spot is a minimum requirement if I'm "asked" to tape a show. If I "choose" to record a show on my own accord I expect no type of consideration, that's my choice. The five bucks isn't really the issue, it's the request of my time invested that would cause the expectation of at least a little consideration, that's worth even more than the $5 that I would have paid them to see them on my own accord. I also upload shows on my own schedule and seldom get them out next day or even within the same week, (as you know quite well  ), but if I'm asked to record a show & guest listed, I make time to get it right out there within 48 hrs.

and

That said, I am all for supporting both artists and venues financially. As I said, I'm always happy to buy a ticket and pay my way. Also, that reduces the stress if I end up having to bail - I don't "owe" anyone anything.

Bingo. Thats the primary reason I don't push for guestlist spot or other compensation; I'm on the hook for something. If I pay my own way, I can break down at setbreak, or not even go as I don't have to. If it's work, there are certain expectations such as (but not limited to):

• Show up before doors open to setup
• Ensure your equipment will work
• Recording takes priority over enjoyment, that includes producing a recording that does not have clipping/distortion/etc
• Tear down afterwards which can be exponential if you're doing >2 or >4 tracks
• Appropriately compress, EQ, mix, etc and evaluate those changes on a variety of listening environments
• Deliver product (whether just a final mix or the final mix and the original files, or whatever the spec is stated as) with a short turnaround time

So yeah, it's a hobby, but that's more than I do now and to do it on someone else's time scale to their specifications, I expect to be compensated. Not to the level of a professional, but I expect to get something out of it. In addition to the door charge being waved, I usually walk out with a CD of one of their albums or a tshirt or something like that (and appropriate credit on any albums produced from said material) for efforts that are above and beyond the typical "oh hey, we want you to make an audience tape of tonight's show" such as if a band wanted to do a live album or web promo download like a Christmas freebie for fans. The vast majority of the time the band will offer what I think is fair right off the bat, but we always have a clear discussion about it before anything happens. For typical GL stuff like Yarn, I see where Todd's coming from. It's bands where they contact you and you get a spec that is more than that TS.com GL audience tape, thats where I start to expect more. I see the later as more of a "mobile studio" type function and find that to be more in line a band's expectations in that sort of environment.

Always clarify this in advance, whatever you do.

[kindms]

If you asked the band to show up and play at your place they would expect to be compensated. If they show up on their own and play at your party no.

Seems to be a pretty simple way to approach the situation.

[MSTaper]

I decided to go last night and wasn't charged. I convinced two bands to get on the Archive and hopefully the third will follow. It was my first time to hear all three bands (even though I know people in all three.) Actually, I heard a four-piece version of one of the bands a couple weeks ago.

The promoter had basically asked me to come. He plays trombone in one of the bands.
Everyone was very appreciative of me taping, but I'll be tracking the shows, gathering set information, etc., to get them on archive. I'll probably be taping these guys again since they're local and I'll just address each situation on a case by case basis.
If they comp me, fine, if not, the bands are worth $5.

Also had a couple of other people thanked me for taping and others asking where the shows would be posted. I'm encouraging everyone to get on the Archive because it's easier for a lot of people that BitTorrent, which is easy if you learn it.

MSTaper

[yltfan]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

[acidjack]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

   I've never been to one.

[page]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

gritty clubs in parts of town that fit less than 120 standing people if every square inch is taken. I frequent a couple where 50 people would fill one and 90-100 would fill the other. They are usually $5 or less to get in. I did a bunch of free Tuesday night shows this spring that way.

[acidjack]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

gritty clubs in parts of town that fit less than 120 standing people if every square inch is taken. I frequent a couple where 50 people would fill one and 90-100 would fill the other. They are usually $5 or less to get in. I did a bunch of free Tuesday night shows this spring that way.

Regional inflation. In NYC I'm pretty sure that's still a $10 show

[hoppedup]

Lots of $3-5 shows around here. Usually they are local bands on weeknights. There $7-10 is pretty common. Anything over $15 is generally a nationally touring act.

Anything over $20 and I'm only there on the guest list or with free tickets. There is way too much good music that is under-priced to waste time on the overpriced.

[page]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

gritty clubs in parts of town that fit less than 120 standing people if every square inch is taken. I frequent a couple where 50 people would fill one and 90-100 would fill the other. They are usually $5 or less to get in. I did a bunch of free Tuesday night shows this spring that way.

Regional inflation. In NYC I'm pretty sure that's still a $10 show

   

[Gutbucket]

Where are all these $5 shows people are talking about?

A monthly week night jazz gig has been my favorite taping event for the past two years.  They rarely get more than 25-30 people in there and reduced the door from $10 to $5 last winter to encourage more younger people to showup (which has worked somewhat).  Excellent musicianship in a nice sounding small room, owned by a large, lucrative club in the same building, so they aren't strapped financially and put this on for the love of the music, a favor to the musicians, and to make use of an otherwise unused 8-10pm time-slot.  It's certainly no money maker for them if they even break-even.  I usually walk in with the band at no cost, but often pay the door if attendance is especially low just to help motivate the owners to keep the series going because I love it so and have free recording rein to do whatever I want.  Plus they make money off my bar-tab. 

Best $5 shows I've ever been to, and it seems to be something of a local secret.

[MSTaper]

I live in the Muscle Shoals area in northwest Alabama. There are very few decent places with music. We rarely get national touring acts. The shows I'm talking about are local bands, a lot of which are really good. The going rate is $5, sometimes $7 and occasionally $10. We do have the Alabama Shakes at a 700 seat theater with Jonny Corndog for $25. Overpriced, IMHO, and the same night as Phish. Civil Wars are coming $25-45. DBT comes every now and then because Patterson and Cooley grew up here.

And these places max out at about $100 and are mostly bars not designed for music. The place i was at last night was an old garage beside the only indie record store in town. A pretty cool place, byob, and i have a DFC spot in front of an old piano. I have to be careful not to hit the keys. I know the owner and can get SBD anytime, but I've only been there twice. Next time I won't mind paying for the bands I saw last night.

MSTaper

[capnhook]

^^ Those ISOs are annoying.

Related story to GLing. My favorite local/up and coming band won a battle of the bands. They got to open for the B-52s (not taper friendly) at Koka Booth. This is where Futhur played last month, and a venue that routinely gets bigger national acts. The band asked me to tape, but didn't offer a GL spot. They assured me that I would be able to gear gear in to open tape, they were kean to have it recorded, so I agreed. I ended up buying a ticket from their manager at ~1/2 cost, but still $30. No biggie, love the band. I show up with Walstib62 unannounced, who gets the same discount from the manager. We get in through the volunteer entrance at gate time, so no line. We're setting up, and the promoter and the band's manager show up and give us VIP lanyards. Free food, free microbrews = happy tapers  They made us tear down after the set, so we of course spent the rest of night VIPing it.

Musta been the 'Team Hodge Podge' mojo, hangin' out again.....

[hi and lo]

We do have the Alabama Shakes at a 700 seat theater with Jonny Corndog for $25. Overpriced, IMHO...

I'd pay $100 to see that.   

[MSTaper]

Ooops! A typo. should be $35. It sold out in 30 minutes, maybe less. I saw them for free just over a year ago at the record store.  Saw them in Huntsville in March for $12. I didn't even try for tickets because we're going to Phish the same day.     I've seen DBT and Isbell there and it's a cool venue. It will be a great show. It just HAD to be the same day as Phish! 

But I still think $35 is overpriced. I can see a lot of good bands for less 

MSTaper

[newplanet7]

Some are saying it's like compensation for your time and work before, during, and after the show. For a $5 show?
How much work are you guys really doing here? You're not going in and running effing sound for a $5 show.
 You will at most throw up two channel aud and pull a board, from the equipment in your sigs. You go in, set up wherever the hell you want,
get your config down and hit record. Peep the levels every now and again. Hit stop. Not a lot of work for your "hobby" eh?
Also not sure what you are doing in post that qualifies as work for a $5 show in a less than stellar bar/club.
Bottom line, if they ask you to come and tape their $5 show and guest-list you, take it. If they don't offer it either go and tape because you are interested
in something new and dig your hobby where it doesn't matter, or you aren't feeling them and decline. S I M P L E.

I wouldn't necessarily go see a band I didn't like just because of a guest list spot. 

That IS what I am saying AJ. If you dig them or want to try them out, out of curiosity and they ask you to tape with or without a GL spot- do it.
If you aren't interested in them, the choice is made already.

And really, you don't think it's work to some degree?

Sure, it takes time to go through the show and whatnot. Once again though, if I am interested in checking them out
or already dig them, I don't see it as work one bit. I see it as I am going to process the tape so I can hear it again and post it because
I like the band or I was interested in them enough to try them out. Once again this involves me making the choice.

Here is my whole point. I do think we are agreeing guys.

Obviously you aren't going to see a band you have no interest in just because of a GL spot.
That's my point here. If they ask you to tape AND If you already like them, or are interested in them,
why must people insist on a GL spot? Decline and move on if you don't dig them or aren't interested when they ask.

[John Willett]

I don't think a $5 cover is deserving of a GL spot. That's just silly to expect one or ask for one.
I also think that it's sad if that would be the deciding factor for any taper to go or not. You either want to go and check it out and
enjoy your hobby or you decline the offer and tell them you are primping your pubes that night.
You're either interested in doing it or not. You either would go see that band out of curiosity or rather go elsewhere.
In no way for A $5 show for a local band should this be an issue.

You guys aren't following me here. It's summed up nicely in my quote above.
Basically what I am saying is if you think it's too much work, and you don't want to go, decline.
Pretty simple. But don't let a $5 cover or non GL spot be the sole reason for you not going. That is what is weak.
I guess I don't view it as work if I am interested in the band is all I am saying..
If I am interested in a $5 band why is their a GL spot needed.? There is no need for one.

A GL spot is not just free entry - it is the indication that you are doing a job of work and not a normal punter - that you are there officially, not unofficially.

It's not just saving the entrance fee - it tells people that you are official and there by invitation.  It also helps you to get in early to set up.

Personally, I never go in through the front door, I go in the stage door several hours before the doors open, to set up and listen to the practice session so I get the mics in the right place.

[newplanet7]

John, what people are referring to in this thread since the very first post, is just getting in on the GL for free.
And my point John, is if you like the band and were at some point showing interest in them anyway,
is it really an issue if you don't get a GL spot. That's all I am saying.

Also, in the states, when you are on the GL you look like any other fan, you are just taping.
No one notices that you are there "Officially and not Unofficially."
A good portion of the time you don't go in super early with the band.
Once in a blue moon you may get a little sticker or piece of paper that says "press Pass" but more often than not
absolutely nothing looks like you are not just there taping as a hobby.

[acidjack]

^^ Well, I'm referring to both - not just list spots, but also getting in early.  And even if it's "just" getting in on the GL for free, I find it's helpful when someone shows up and hassles me about recording to say, "Yes, the band invited me here to do this."

Getting in early is essential, depending on the spot.  Most of the places I tape, arriving right at doors is sufficient, but some take a lot more setup time and/or have spots that are really hard to get if you're not the first person in the door.

[John Willett]

John, what people are referring to in this thread since the very first post, is just getting in on the GL for free.
And my point John, is if you like the band and were at some point showing interest in them anyway,
is it really an issue if you don't get a GL spot. That's all I am saying.

Also, in the states, when you are on the GL you look like any other fan, you are just taping.
No one notices that you are there "Officially and not Unofficially."
A good portion of the time you don't go in super early with the band.
Once in a blue moon you may get a little sticker or piece of paper that says "press Pass" but more often than not
absolutely nothing looks like you are not just there taping as a hobby.

My take is that if you have been asked officially to tape then you should not have to pay anything - in fact you should be charging for making the recording.

If it's a low key thing and you tape for free, then you should get in for free.

Asking someone to tape and then charging them for admission is taking the pi**.

It's not about actually being on the "Guest List", but about not having to pay to get in.  Personally I am not normally listed on the GL, but I have never had to pay for entry as I am there officially doing a job of work.  I often have an "Access All Areas" pass or just walk in the Stage Door prior to the event to set up.

[Myco]

I think that except for a couple of people who said that they pay anyway to support the bands, we're all in agreement here. All good.
Although an extra $5 in a bands pocket rather than your own is no big deal anyway. If you wanna flip a $5 the bands way, fine. I do the same buying them beers after, so I don't really see the need to "help them out" this way.

[acidjack]

I think that except for a couple of people who said that they pay anyway to support the bands, we're all in agreement here. All good.
Although an extra $5 in a bands pocket rather than your own is no big deal anyway. If you wanna flip a $5 the bands way, fine. I do the same buying them beers after, so I don't really see the need to "help them out" this way.

This... ..or buying their records/merch.  From my conversations with bands, the #1 thing they care about, finance-wise, is selling merch.  I was talking to a guy recently about this really successful European tour they had.  Financially, he said he was happier about having sold a bunch of merch at a given show as whether it was sold out or not.

[page]

I think that except for a couple of people who said that they pay anyway to support the bands, we're all in agreement here. All good.
Although an extra $5 in a bands pocket rather than your own is no big deal anyway. If you wanna flip a $5 the bands way, fine. I do the same buying them beers after, so I don't really see the need to "help them out" this way.

This... ..or buying their records/merch.  From my conversations with bands, the #1 thing they care about, finance-wise, is selling merch.  I was talking to a guy recently about this really successful European tour they had.  Financially, he said he was happier about having sold a bunch of merch at a given show as whether it was sold out or not.

in my experience with bands, the profit order is;

tshirts > trinkets > cds.

Depending on how they handled mastering/packaging/label/etc, they may get little from a CD sale, but their tshirts yeild upwards of $5-$10 a shirt depending on how much it costs to make and other middlemen. Also, the most valued gifts (in the bands eyes) I've ever gotten from bands were always shirts.

[bryonsos]

The gross $$s they make on CDs may be smaller than what they get for shirts and trinkets, but they definitely get more for a CD sold at a show than via brick and mortar, iTunes etc. I usually buy a CD if it's a new release, if for no other reason than to help me with tracking and labels. Plus, it's always better to get the liner notes etc. that you generally don't get with a download.

[runonce]

The gross $$s they make on CDs may be smaller than what they get for shirts and trinkets, but they definitely get more for a CD sold at a show than via brick and mortar, iTunes etc. I usually buy a CD if it's a new release, if for no other reason than to help me with tracking and labels. Plus, it's always better to get the liner notes etc. that you generally don't get with a download.

Its different at each/various professional levels....
But regardless - those CDs go on to be little marketing devices in the worlds where they land...particularly if they have any graphic production to them. Makes them more of a conversation piece.

I've seen new, upcoming bands just give away a choice live show. - Its sort of like "cloud seeding"
Seems like an inexpensive, per fan investment in promotion.
Giving away studio work is bit more of an investment, but I've seen it done.
Or - I've seen bands just ask for donation for a new studio disc.

But once you have enough fans, you should be selling...live or studio, you need to have that product at the show and available on-line.
But then, its a job(gasp!) - and the band has to be ready to manage that part...otherwise they just get lazy, forget the discs, etc...

[Elana]

For any bands who would ask me to tape, I'd probably be on the guest list anyway, so it wouldn't matter to me.  In the event that's not the case, it depends on if I was planning on going before I got asked for the tape.  If I was already gonna go, then I wouldn't care about guest list.  However I wouldn't go to a show I wasn't otherwise planning to attend without at least being listed in exchange for taping.

[bradfordzilla]

If a band asks me to come and tape them, I'm getting for free.  All of the alcohol that I consume that night, I'm getting that for free as well.  I don't know of many musicians that would play a gig and not get compensated for it in some way. If the band is half ass decent, each member should be getting $100 - $150 a night.  The least they could do is break me of a little something something.

[drivingwheel]

I'm talking about local shows, the $5-$10 shows that you might or might not go to anyway.
If it's a band I really like, I'll pay the cover and tape.
 
It's not so much the money, but the work involved AFTER the show, especially when there are three bands to transfer, track, upload, etc. Even if you don't upload it, there's a fair amount of time and work involved. Is it too much to expect to be placed on the guest list for this?


MSTaper

we always try to guest list tapers, period - anytime anyone wants to come to a Driving Wheel show with their gear and want to roll tape, we try to accomodate the taper to the point that he/she can get the best possible recording.  It just makes sense.

[newplanet7]

If a band asks me to come and tape them, I'm getting for free.  All of the alcohol that I consume that night, I'm getting that for free as well.  I don't know of many musicians that would play a gig and not get compensated for it in some way. If the band is half ass decent, each member should be getting $100 - $150 a night.  The least they could do is break me of a little something something.

Bar tabs usually aren't included, nor should they be expected to be. That's just ass-hattery.

[ScoobieKW]

If a band asks me to come and tape them, I'm getting for free.  All of the alcohol that I consume that night, I'm getting that for free as well.  I don't know of many musicians that would play a gig and not get compensated for it in some way. If the band is half ass decent, each member should be getting $100 - $150 a night.  The least they could do is break me of a little something something.

Bar tabs usually aren't included, nor should they be expected to be. That's just ass-hattery.

Yes, but a drink ticket or two is a nice touch.

[newplanet7]

If a band asks me to come and tape them, I'm getting for free.  All of the alcohol that I consume that night, I'm getting that for free as well.  I don't know of many musicians that would play a gig and not get compensated for it in some way. If the band is half ass decent, each member should be getting $100 - $150 a night.  The least they could do is break me of a little something something.

Bar tabs usually aren't included, nor should they be expected to be. That's just ass-hattery.

Yes, but a drink ticket or two is a nice touch.

Indeed.

[page]

If a band asks me to come and tape them, I'm getting for free.  All of the alcohol that I consume that night, I'm getting that for free as well.  I don't know of many musicians that would play a gig and not get compensated for it in some way. If the band is half ass decent, each member should be getting $100 - $150 a night.  The least they could do is break me of a little something something.

Bar tabs usually aren't included, nor should they be expected to be. That's just ass-hattery.

+1

I know plenty of places that don't even give free drinks to the band who they are paying.

Second, you can be really good at what you do, and still get just about shit on a nightly haul. Everyone starts somewhere.

[ilduclo]

I generally have a lot more $ than any of the bands I tape, so I really don't expect anything from them and usually buy merch and contribute more to gas funds than anyone else.

[John Willett]

I generally have a lot more $ than any of the bands I tape, so I really don't expect anything from them and usually buy merch and contribute more to gas funds than anyone else.

That's down to you and your generosity - but if they *asked* you to tape, you should be on the guest list.

If you are well off and want to donate to help the band and not charge them for recording, that's up to you.

[digitallive]

anyone ever have the band guestlist you, but then the venue say no you have to pay?

thats pretty much the policy at the Smiling Moose in pittsburgh. haven't been there in over a year but the soundguy/doorman are douchebags and will make you pay and tell you the band has no guestlist. their closest competitor in regards to size/audience is the 31st st pub, whose owner always waves me in w/o paying even if i'm not taping. you can guess which club i refer touring bands to when they are looking for a gig in pittsburgh