Topic: Tascam DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part 2)

[voltronic]

Hmm.  Well, on one hand I guess it's a nice surprise to see that ExFAT is now being used in these devices instead of the rather antiquated FAT32.  My apologies for sending you on a wild goose chase with that one.

I completely agree that the write speed of that card should not be an issue at all even with 4 channels of 24/96.  Data rate of a 2-channel 24/96 recording is 4.39Mbit/s - that's megabit, and your card is rated 40 megabyte / s so it shouldn't be an issue at all.  I'm beginning to think you have a bad card.  I have had genuine SanDisk cards go bad before.  If you have this issue with other cards though, it could be an issue with the unit. 

The only SD cards I have right now are Transcend class 10s, which are definitely not "approved", but I have perfect performance with them for photo and video. 

The approved card list for the 70D is extremely short so far - I'm hoping they get around to testing more cards (scroll to the bottom): http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/specifications/

[willndmb]

Personally I would format in the tascam and go with that

[Cheesecadet]

I do show a 12 dB variance when running the limiters as well.

[leehookem]

I have yet to use a limiter on any recorder I've owned.

[sperho]

Here are a couple screen shots of the statistics with limiters on and off. These were both 15 second clips. I have screenshots of the 2 high gain settings, as well as sound clips if you're interested.

Thanks.  Definitely a higher noise floor with limiters engaged...  Most likely as per the description earlier...  Thanks for the screen shots! 

[F.O.Bean]

Speaking of the 680, I found this thread on GS about the same error message:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/558184-dr680-write-timeout-error-massage.html

Great find voltronic! I have another identical card and a pile of different ones that I'll try out. After reading a couple of the comments, I highly doubt the write speed of my card has anything to do with the "Write Timeout" error. In fact, last night I was able to replicate the error a couple times by clapping in front of my mics and getting all 4 channels to peak at the same time while recording at 24/96.

Many devices like these recorders want cards to be FAT32, but card manufacturers might be using ExFAT out of the box.  Theoretically if you're formatting the card in the recorder than it should be formatting properly to the correct filesystem, but I've sometimes found this to not work if the card is already in the "wrong" filesystem or there were errors on the card - I ran into this issue specifically with high-capacity microSD cards used in my phone.  Sometimes you need to format it to FAT32 first on your computer for it to work properly.  It's not intuitive that step is necessary, but that's been my experience.

The problem is you can't format FAT32 with higher capacities in Windows natively - you need a third-party program.  I've had success with both of these in formatting high-capacity cards to FAT32:
http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm
https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/

I reformatted the card to FAT32. The 70D couldn't recognize the card after that so I had to roll back to exFAT.

@F.O.Bean - I'll keep playing with this until I figure out what's going on. This is a huge problem because when it happens, the files it's recording disappear... all 4 channels!!!

An average of a series of low amplitude, zero-crossing data points may simply be reflective of how much DC offset the trace has. The value that is of interest here is RMS level, not average level... This way, DC offset doesn't "contaminate" the calculation.  To get this in SoundForge, select several seconds of waveform and then view the statistics using a menu command (or the statistics button on one of the optional menu bars).

Here are a couple screen shots of the statistics with limiters on and off. These were both 15 second clips. I have screenshots of the 2 high gain settings, as well as sound clips if you're interested.

Low Mic Gain - Limiters Off


Low Mic Gain - Limiters On

Be careful of cards bought from non-authorized dealers. Some can be outright fakes, others can be the real card but with a lower capacity than what the label shows. I believe tonedeaf had a recent exprience with the latter. If Amazon sold the card you should be okay (if not Amazon will probably give you a refund), if it was a third-party seller you may have experienced the same thing tonedeaf did.

Both cards I bought are genuine SanDisk, thanks for the warning though. I ran one through a chkdsk like program for mac, called F3, it had full capacity and zero corrupted sectors.

Nice recorder.  Saw one first hand a couple weeks ago at Suwannee Springfest.  Very compact.  Controls seem straight forward.

I really like that it has individual channel delay and EQ functions, selectable for playback only if desired I presume.  Those functions were absent on the DR-680 and I don't think they've been added to the new DR-680II, unfortunately.  Many here will never use those funcitons, but they are very important for me.  I'd also really like it to have and a polarity invert switch per channel on both these machines as well. 

I totally agree, the amount of features Tascam crammed in to this tiny little thing is astounding, especially for under $300. I know it'll be great in the field, just need to figure out what's going on with this "Write Timeout" issue.

What size card are you using again? I plan on using 32gb cards MAX, so I shouldn't have to use the exfat format. Maybe using up to 32gb cards is all the 70d can handle right now with four channels at 24/96 until a firmware update comes out?!?!?! Where's tomu when we need his expertise

[Cheesecadet]

I have a Sandisk Class 10 64gb MicroSDXC Ultra Plus card ( I believe it is 80 mbps) in an SD adapter and it has worked great thus far.

[Rally_AK]

I'm using 128GB cards and getting the "Write Timeout" failure with both. They're going back to Amazon tomorrow. I'm testing an older 32GB SanDisk Ultra class 10 now, it better not have the same issue.

Stay away from the new SanDisk SDXC Ultra's people! At least the 128GB cards if you plan to record at 24/96.

[F.O.Bean]

I have a Sandisk Class 10 64gb MicroSDXC Ultra Plus card ( I believe it is 80 mbps) in an SD adapter and it has worked great thus far.

Thanks! Have you done all 4 channels at 24/96 yet though?

I plan on using all 4 channels at 24/96 except at festies, so this is pretty important to me! Hopefully its just an issue with the 128gb cards and can be easily addressed in a firmware update

I'm using 128GB cards and getting the "Write Timeout" failure with both. They're going back to Amazon tomorrow. I'm testing an older 32GB SanDisk Ultra class 10 now, it better not have the same issue.

Stay away from the new SanDisk SDXC Ultra's people! At least the 128GB cards if you plan to record at 24/96.

Yeah I'm hoping and praying that your 32gb plays nicely at 24/96 as well Keep us updated and thanks for taking the time to do this

[voltronic]

What size card are you using again? I plan on using 32gb cards MAX, so I shouldn't have to use the exfat format. Maybe using up to 32gb cards is all the 70d can handle right now with four channels at 24/96 until a firmware update comes out?!?!?! Where's tomu when we need his expertise

Regardless of card size, you probably don't really have a choice of filesystem - either you format in the recorder and it writes the filesystem it wants (FAT32 or ExFAT), or you format in your computer and if after you put in in the recorder it's the "wrong" filesystem, the recorder tells you it needs to reformat.  Based on Rally_AK's account, it sounds like ExFAT is the 70D's filesystem of choice, although given the problems he's had it may be too soon to call that one.

ExFAT is the standard factory format for SDXC cards now, but you can and sometimes need to have FAT32 on high-capacity devices, like an older 500GB Samsung portable hard drive I own, or older iPod hard drives.  Windows removed the ability to format FAT32 natively a couple versions ago, so to make that filesystem you now need something like the third-party utilities I linked.

[F.O.Bean]

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation Hopefully a firmware update will fix these card issues, because I would call the "Write Timeout" kind of a big deal IMO! If it says it should be able to do 24/96 on all four channels, then it should be ABLE to do it lol Not a HUGE downer for me if I can only run up to 24/48[I run 24/44.1 because I don't see the advantage and added quality running 24/48 but anyway], I'll just run 24/44.1 if I HAVE to just to avoid the Write Timeout issue when doing four channels

[Rally_AK]

Yeah I'm hoping and praying that your 32gb plays nicely at 24/96 as well Keep us updated and thanks for taking the time to do this

My 32GB card worked great, recorded all (4) channels at 24/96 BWF until the card filled up (7h40m). The "Write Timeout" issue appears to be isolated to the higher capacity SDXC's.

@ Cheesecadet - I'm really interested to hear if your 64GB Ultra Plus card has any issues at 24/96. It's sounds weird but I could easily replicate the issue within a couple minutes by making all 4 channels peak at the same time (Clap, sneeze, fart, etc...)   

[Cheesecadet]

Yeah I'm hoping and praying that your 32gb plays nicely at 24/96 as well Keep us updated and thanks for taking the time to do this

My 32GB card worked great, recorded all (4) channels at 24/96 BWF until the card filled up (7h40m). The "Write Timeout" issue appears to be isolated to the higher capacity SDXC's.

@ Cheesecadet - I'm really interested to hear if your 64GB Ultra Plus card has any issues at 24/96. It's sounds weird but I could easily replicate the issue within a couple minutes by making all 4 channels peak at the same time (Clap, sneeze, fart, etc...) 

I will try to replicate your issue later tonight if time permits and let ya know.  I don't often record @ 24/96 because of file sizes unless it is jazz.

[F.O.Bean]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it

Is everyone using the 1.02 firmware If not, it might correct the larger card issues

[Cheesecadet]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate it

Is everyone using the 1.02 firmware If not, it might correct the larger card issues

I'm still using the OG firmware.  I will check for the timeout issue at 24/96 tomorrow sometime and report back.