Topic: Sonosax SX-M2 questions & Help

[ianstone]

Hey all,

I have a sonosax here that needs a little TLC. I think the gain pots just need to be cleaned/tuned up... when adjusting levels there's a static type noise that only happens when adjusting. Who can fix this, any suggestions?

Also - i need to find an external power solution for the sax. Does anyone use 12v power for it? if so, where'd you get the plug for it and what are the pin connections? I would like to get or have a power cable made, and use it with external power.
Does anyone know can you power it off 12 volt and use the same battery to run an ad2k+?

any help is appreciated, and needed.

Thanks,
ian stone

[Nick Graham]

Leegeddy built me an external power source using 2 9v Wal-Mart l-ions. It can power the Sax for 8 to 10 hours and is super light. It's just the 2 batteries with 2 power cords that terminate in a single male 4 pin XLR , and then a female XLR to SXM2 power cable.

I don't believe a 12v SLA will work, as it actually needs a full 18 volts for powering.

As for the cleaning, that appears to be a semi-frequent problem over time. Check the archive, because I remember several tips on DIY cleaning...

[neumannkid]

Cleaning/fixing static
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=27029.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=43704.0

Powering
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=46279.0
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51489.0

Enjoy Your Sax

[JasonR]

Supposedly they're sealed pots which means, at least in theory, that something like detox or another lubricant wouldn't help.  But I've heard some have had luck going that route.

Bill Drucklieb of Cinemasonics (former US Sonosax repair center) recommended first trying to heat the pots from the front with a hair dryer (or very carefully with a heat gun on a low setting).  This along with moving the dials might heat up the lubricant inside the pots and better distribute it.  At worse, the pots can be replaced if need be.

Nick - you only get 8-10 hours on the /LS2 with external batteries?  I can run almost that long on a pair of 9V alkalines.  The Lemosax is very efficient, certainly a lot more than my Beyer MV100 running Schoeps bodies.

- Jason

[chucky]

Ian, I would def. go with Dwonks 10 AA sled.

He never updated that thread, but he ran it forever.
I believe he recorded a 2 day festy let it sit for a month,
and then taped 3 more shows off of Alkaline AAs from the $1 store.

Cost about $4 to make, and that price is loaded with fresh batts.
Just gotta solder 2 joints. If you can't solder let me know and Ill make you one for free, takes 3 minutes.

[shaggy]

Yep, like chucky said....about 10-12 hours (probably more but the voltage after that point drops to 13.5V and I feel safer when it is at least 14V) with those cheap alkalines you can get at Ikea for $2/10pk.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51489.0

Just so you know, do not run this off a power supply that has other things hooked into the signal chain.  The Sax has some ground loop issues with the external jack.  Make a dedicated PS.

[ianstone]

ok i havent been able to check back in with this thread until now...

+Ts all around!!! THANKS so much for all the info. Right now i'm wasted... had an awesome day of golf out here in beautiful sunny socal, it was a shorts and tshrt day. beer, joints, and golf - All thanks to a man named Martin Luther King JR.
honorable mention goes to my company for giving us the day off 

i will be taking another look at this when i'm sober so i can understand this all and decide on the best option

+T's and thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions!!!! 

[ianstone]

oh here's another question: might be stupid...


so in order to use it as an "ls2", you need a mod done to it and need to get a kcy cable, right?
Can anyone tell me how much the mod costs/where to have it done? and then if you do go this route, can you still use the sax to power regular mics (ie: akg 414's?)

its actually not my preamp, its my buddy's here in town. he has akg 414's. He doesnt' tape a lot so for some shows around here i'm going to try running my schoeps>sonosax>722 and compare it with straight schoeps>722 just for kicks

if the mod can be done and it can still be used as a 'regular' pre, i would consider getting it done...

 

[shaggy]

Not sure if you can get them modded after the fact.  Once they are modded, you cannot use it for regular mics with bodies, only KCY 5 pin Schoeps stereo binder plug and L/R lemo plugs for older style LC3 Neumanns.  I think that Sonosax does not make them regularily, they must be ordered and then custom made in Switzerland (takes a few weeks).  They are $1200 retail, and I have heard they can be had for less thru other channels.

[Nick Graham]

Nick - you only get 8-10 hours on the /LS2 with external batteries?  I can run almost that long on a pair of 9V alkalines.  The Lemosax is very efficient, certainly a lot more than my Beyer MV100 running Schoeps bodies.

- Jason

I've ran it a full 8 hours and only had 1 of the 4 lights out on the l-ion batteries...never ran any full tests, so it's likely more like 30+ hours.

[RebelRebel]

Not sure if you can get them modded after the fact.  Once they are modded, you cannot use it for regular mics with bodies, only KCY 5 pin Schoeps stereo binder plug and L/R lemo plugs for older style LC3 Neumanns.  I think that Sonosax does not make them regularily, they must be ordered and then custom made in Switzerland (takes a few weeks).  They are $1200 retail, and I have heard they can be had for less thru other channels.

Yep they can be had for less.  You cannot have them modded after the fact, Andy, thats right.Have to buy them that way.

[gngrbrdman13]

ian get rid of that thing quick dont fucking fix it .  I have a V2 or an MP2 you can borrow anytime.  If you need to stealth the nbox is yours.

Not spitty = Not good.

dd

[ianstone]

ian get rid of that thing quick dont fucking fix it .  I have a V2 or an MP2 you can borrow anytime.  If you need to stealth the nbox is yours.

Not spitty = Not good.

dd

haha well its not the lemosax so it might still be a little bit spitty - its just the stock sax

[JasonR]

its actually not my preamp, its my buddy's here in town. he has akg 414's. He doesnt' tape a lot so for some shows around here i'm going to try running my schoeps>sonosax>722 and compare it with straight schoeps>722 just for kicks

I'd love to see a CMC64>SX-M2>722 vs. CMC64>722 comparison.  Yell if you get around to doing that, or anyone else for that matter.

- Jason

[bgraves001]

how many hours will the sonosax sx-m2 stay powered on disposable batteries (duracell, energizer...)?  im borrowing one for a show tomorrow night and want to make sure i have enough power.  thanks!
brian

[gngrbrdman13]

how many hours will the sonosax sx-m2 stay powered on disposable batteries (duracell, energizer...)?  im borrowing one for a show tomorrow night and want to make sure i have enough power.  thanks!
brian

My experience has provided 4 hrs TOPS alkalines.  I am hearing that the lemosax goes 10 hours....I'll believe when I see.

good luck Brian

dd

[JasonR]

I am hearing that the lemosax goes 10 hours....I'll believe when I see.

I was just about to start testing mine but I might be taping a show tonight and don't want to cut the test short if it does run successfully for a very long time.  I'll run at least one test tomorrow though - and record the entire thing to ensure that I can find when the signal really starts to cut out in case it's before the battery light indicates problems.

- Jason

[silentmark]

Ultralife lithiums will give you about 15 hours ...

[bgraves001]

thanks for the info guys! 
 ill be running schoeps-ccm4>sonosax>m1.  will it be ok to set the levels on the sonosax at 20/40 beforehand and then use the m1's controls to set the levels when the show starts?

[neutrino]

thanks for the info guys! 
 ill be running schoeps-ccm4>sonosax>m1.  will it be ok to set the levels on the sonosax at 20/40 beforehand and then use the m1's controls to set the levels when the show starts?

Unless the show you’re taping is some real loud metal - I would tape down the level control on your M1 at it's maximum setting and then adjust the level appropriately on the sax using the meters on the M1. This is what I'm now doing with my Lemosax>R1 combo after talking with Doug Oade about how to properly set up the dials on each machine. He said to run the recorder wide open because the level control is a rotary attenuator, just like in the M1 - and the less control you run through, the cleaner the signal is.

Hope this helps.
dB-

[silentmark]

Sorta like the modSBM1, but I like to set the sbm to 8 or 9, then set my gain so I have some room to play with the sbm1 ...

[bgraves001]

thanks for the tips guys, i was able to make some kick ass recordings last night!

[mmedley.]

I usually got about 5 hours a set of Energizers running Schoeps 64V's. The Ultralife Lithums gave me about 10 hours. I always ran 0db on the Sax and rain my gain on the M1 around 5-7 at your average rock show.

Glad you made some kick ass recordings. Just a great all around combo...as stated in another thread the only 16bit I would run these days is Sax >modSBM-1.

[JasonR]

Well, I had to stay up late to finish the test properly, but the Sonosax SX-M2/LS did a hell of a job in this battery test.

I used a pair of new Duracell ProCell (alkaline) 9V batteries with a "Best Before" date of March 2010.  The batteries were stored at room temperature, and the test was done at room temp (about 70-72 degrees F.)  Testing rig was a pair of MK4 caps > KC5 cables modified with LEMO connectors > SX-M2/LS.  The Sonosax was run on the low gain scale with both dials at 12:00 for +20dB of gain.  The low frequency cut-off (HPF) was not used. Output of the Sonosax was sent over a pair of XLRs to an AC powered 722.

The batteries started out measuring 9.52V each.

The rig went 11 hours and 35 minutes until the "fast blink" mode kicked in, warning of low battery life.  The rig continued until 12 hours, 43 minutes and 8 seconds until obvious distortion began along with a beating sound that matched the "fast blink" LED.

So there ya have it.  12:43:08  I've never purposely run that long, but I have run mine on a hot summer day at a festival for around 10 hours.

FYI - I measured the batteries at the end, and they were 6.22V and 6.70V.  They were both "recovering" which is to say the voltage of each was rising... more dramatically for the weaker battery.  Within about 5 minutes, they were up to 6.75V and 6.80V.  Out of curiosity, I threw them back in the Sonosax and they were able to power the rig.  I didn't test them for duration as I'm certain it would have been short.  Someone with knowledge of battery chemistry could probably explain this a lot better.

Lest there be any confusion, this is NOT +48V Phantom Powered SX-M2 preamp, but an alternate /LS version intended to power capsules like the Schoeps MK series directly via active cables without the use of bodies.  My /LS version has since been replaced by the /LS2 which adds a 5-pin BINDER connector to mate directly with Schoeps own KCY cables, negating the need for any custom cable work.

- Jason

[silentmark]

I usually got about 5 hours a set of Energizers running Schoeps 64V's. The Ultralife Lithums gave me about 10 hours. I always ran 0db on the Sax and rain my gain on the M1 around 5-7 at your average rock show.

Glad you made some kick ass recordings. Just a great all around combo...as stated in another thread the only 16bit I would run these days is Sax >modSBM-1.

Comment on the 0db, I have noticed background noise introduce when running with this setting, I did this twice and didn't know what was happening, after some testing it was the 0db setting. You can't really hear it when a band is pumping out the music, but more in between, aka the quiet parts. Needless to say I don't run at that setting anymore ...

Oh and I completely agree, the only 16bit to run is the sax>modsbm1   

[shaggy]

Here is a solution I came up with that you may or may not have seen:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51489.0

I know that Sax>modSBM combo well.  I have run the AKG 480s, Gefell M200/210, Neumann KM140, Nakamichi CM-300 numerous times thru this set up and Schoeps MK4Vs once at an all night gig .  I really loved that AKG > Sax > modSBM.  But like all good tapers, you move on....now I am ditching the SX-M2....in favor of the SX-M2/LS since running Schoeps doesn't allow you to keep extra gear around.

My thoughts running this stuff (and it probably is not worth more than a hill of beans):

Nakamichi CM-300 > Sax > modSBM, ran this for two years.  About a nice a set upf the Naks except that the low end was a bit muddy which has alot to do with the mics.  There was a lack of detail, transient response and high end handling of the Naks was what you'd expect for $300 a pair mics, but tonally really quite plesant overall.  Nevertheless, I ran this at more shows than I can remember and it served me very well. 

Gefell M200/210 > Sax > modSBM....LoSammy lent me his mics a bunch of times, I really like this set up, in fact, i like it better than running with thru the V3 (which makes the Gefells much more analytical sounding).  Nice details in the mids and high end without too much high end over-extension like some Schoeps recordings I have heard.  The Gefell low end is something I didn't like so much, it just lacked the 'grab you by your chest' power of other mics that I have heard.

Neumann AK40 > LC3KA > KM100 > Sax > modSBM...had this for about three months.  Nice set up...warm and sweet sounding mids and a very natural sounding high end....the low end was too bloated for my tastes.  I wanted to run this with the T+mod but never got the chance.

AKG 481/3 > Sax > modSBM....I liked this alot, the main reason was it sounded good no matter the venue I was taping...it magically rejected the nasty room acoustics.  The highs were a tiny bit analytical but still pleasing, the mids were also a wee bit analytical but again, nothing too overbearing (sometimes that AKG bite was present), the low end was always round and punchy....very characteristic of the mic.  With the T+mod as the pre, it was too much....overextended high end, quelled low end.  Put the Sax in front, it made it more tame in the high end....really detailed, lacking a bit of the fullness in the low end.

The Schoeps > Lemosax > modSBM is really nice, man.  I ran the levels a wee bit lower than I would have liked but that classic Schoeps sound and clairty was evident.  I really dig the low end on these mics, nothing bloated about them at all.  I find the high end extension with Schoeps pleasing, maybe b/c I am getting older and my high end hearing is starting to get shot....i need that extra bit of 'umph' to make up for it.  Maybe the room I was in was exceptional...I know this, I pulled some of my best stuff at this show.  My only complaint is that the dORTF set up seems to really narrow the stereo image.

I am in the process of cleaning house right now.  I bot the T+mod about three months ago and I wanna sell it.  I think the modSBM is a superior piece of gear and am completely perplexed at why people are ditching it.  I would love to keep the Sax but I have a Lemosax....I may live to regret this!

[CHURCH-AUDIO]

If you are still having problems I can fix or replace the potentiometer on your preamp.

Chris Church
Church Audio

Hey all,

I have a sonosax here that needs a little TLC. I think the gain pots just need to be cleaned/tuned up... when adjusting levels there's a static type noise that only happens when adjusting. Who can fix this, any suggestions?

Also - i need to find an external power solution for the sax. Does anyone use 12v power for it? if so, where'd you get the plug for it and what are the pin connections? I would like to get or have a power cable made, and use it with external power.
Does anyone know can you power it off 12 volt and use the same battery to run an ad2k+?

any help is appreciated, and needed.

Thanks,
ian stone

[gngrbrdman13]

Well, I had to stay up late to finish the test properly, but the Sonosax SX-M2/LS did a hell of a job in this battery test.

I used a pair of new Duracell ProCell (alkaline) 9V batteries with a "Best Before" date of March 2010.  The batteries were stored at room temperature, and the test was done at room temp (about 70-72 degrees F.)  Testing rig was a pair of MK4 caps > KC5 cables modified with LEMO connectors > SX-M2/LS.  The Sonosax was run on the low gain scale with both dials at 12:00 for +20dB of gain.  The low frequency cut-off (HPF) was not used. Output of the Sonosax was sent over a pair of XLRs to an AC powered 722.

The batteries started out measuring 9.52V each.

The rig went 11 hours and 35 minutes until the "fast blink" mode kicked in, warning of low battery life.  The rig continued until 12 hours, 43 minutes and 8 seconds until obvious distortion began along with a beating sound that matched the "fast blink" LED.

So there ya have it.  12:43:08  I've never purposely run that long, but I have run mine on a hot summer day at a festival for around 10 hours.

FYI - I measured the batteries at the end, and they were 6.22V and 6.70V.  They were both "recovering" which is to say the voltage of each was rising... more dramatically for the weaker battery.  Within about 5 minutes, they were up to 6.75V and 6.80V.  Out of curiosity, I threw them back in the Sonosax and they were able to power the rig.  I didn't test them for duration as I'm certain it would have been short.  Someone with knowledge of battery chemistry could probably explain this a lot better.

Lest there be any confusion, this is NOT +48V Phantom Powered SX-M2 preamp, but an alternate /LS version intended to power capsules like the Schoeps MK series directly via active cables without the use of bodies.  My /LS version has since been replaced by the /LS2 which adds a 5-pin BINDER connector to mate directly with Schoeps own KCY cables, negating the need for any custom cable work.

- Jason

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

[ianstone]

Well, I had to stay up late to finish the test properly, but the Sonosax SX-M2/LS did a hell of a job in this battery test.

I used a pair of new Duracell ProCell (alkaline) 9V batteries with a "Best Before" date of March 2010.  The batteries were stored at room temperature, and the test was done at room temp (about 70-72 degrees F.)  Testing rig was a pair of MK4 caps > KC5 cables modified with LEMO connectors > SX-M2/LS.  The Sonosax was run on the low gain scale with both dials at 12:00 for +20dB of gain.  The low frequency cut-off (HPF) was not used. Output of the Sonosax was sent over a pair of XLRs to an AC powered 722.

The batteries started out measuring 9.52V each.

The rig went 11 hours and 35 minutes until the "fast blink" mode kicked in, warning of low battery life.  The rig continued until 12 hours, 43 minutes and 8 seconds until obvious distortion began along with a beating sound that matched the "fast blink" LED.

So there ya have it.  12:43:08  I've never purposely run that long, but I have run mine on a hot summer day at a festival for around 10 hours.

FYI - I measured the batteries at the end, and they were 6.22V and 6.70V.  They were both "recovering" which is to say the voltage of each was rising... more dramatically for the weaker battery.  Within about 5 minutes, they were up to 6.75V and 6.80V.  Out of curiosity, I threw them back in the Sonosax and they were able to power the rig.  I didn't test them for duration as I'm certain it would have been short.  Someone with knowledge of battery chemistry could probably explain this a lot better.

Lest there be any confusion, this is NOT +48V Phantom Powered SX-M2 preamp, but an alternate /LS version intended to power capsules like the Schoeps MK series directly via active cables without the use of bodies.  My /LS version has since been replaced by the /LS2 which adds a 5-pin BINDER connector to mate directly with Schoeps own KCY cables, negating the need for any custom cable work.

- Jason

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

[Sanjay]

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

[gngrbrdman13]

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

 

I haven't been on this site for 2 months!

Why dont you take your ass back to the kwik e mart with Apu and make some blueberry squishies and shut the fuck up!

 

Have a nice day

[RebelRebel]

Racial Slurs. Classic.

[Sanjay]

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

 

I haven't been on this site for 2 months!

Why dont you take your ass back to the kwik e mart with Apu and make some blueberry squishies and shut the fuck up!

 

Have a nice day

the last time someone used that comeback on me was in grade school.   Jeez man, if you're gonna try and insult me come up with something more clever next time.

[ianstone]

like what? posting a photo of a chick saying she's an attention whore?

[F.O.Bean]

looks like im gonna go shaggy's powering method

one question, what adaptaplug is that rt-angle? and also, what is positive tip or ring?

thanks,
Bean

[Church-Audio]

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

 

I haven't been on this site for 2 months!

Why dont you take your ass back to the kwik e mart with Apu and make some blueberry squishies and shut the fuck up!

 

Have a nice day

I find your racist remarks despicable. I think members that resort to racist comments SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THIS BOARD AND NEVER BE ALLOWED TO RETURN we don't need your type here.

Chris Church

[RebelRebel]

He is banned, Chris .Where you been, under a rock? Get with the times, man!

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

 

I haven't been on this site for 2 months!

Why dont you take your ass back to the kwik e mart with Apu and make some blueberry squishies and shut the fuck up!

 

Have a nice day

I find your racist remarks despicable. I think members that resort to racist comments SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THIS BOARD AND NEVER BE ALLOWED TO RETURN we don't need your type here.

Chris Church

[F.O.Bean]

i didnt know that teddy

now back to my questions

[Church-Audio]

He is banned, Chris .Where you been, under a rock? Get with the times, man!

whats the voltage to the cap on the sonosax?

 

I guess I did not hear about it. Its like the Dam memo on the TPS reports


I haven't been on this site for 2 months!

Why dont you take your ass back to the kwik e mart with Apu and make some blueberry squishies and shut the fuck up!

 

Have a nice day

I find your racist remarks despicable. I think members that resort to racist comments SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THIS BOARD AND NEVER BE ALLOWED TO RETURN we don't need your type here.

Chris Church