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Author Topic: ZOOM M2 M3 M4 MicTrak Recorders - 32 bit float dual ADC one-piece devices  (Read 46075 times)

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Offline Ozpeter

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I just came across this video where the sound comes from the Zoom M3 Mictrak device (it says).  If nothing else it's an ideal test of 32 bit float, as the location sound gets pretty loud aqnd peaky and personally it's the kind of unpredicatable scenario where level setting is best avoided.  I'd suggest watching the last five minutes or so to evaluate the sound - or of course watch the whole thing if interested!  It certainly seems to have no trouble with the high frequencies and the stereo image is good and wide.  The drums in use seem to be relatively small so the amount of LF on offer may have been a bit too modest to really test that aspect.

https://youtu.be/ihA2xNKDxPY?si=MDiEiL9iChOeDeFl

Offline Ozpeter

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I am resurrecting this thread to report that at last I have had a chance to use the Zoom M3 with its 32 bit float stereo sound in a real world scenario.  I attended a local festival which included market stalls, stage performances, food avenue, and fire sculpture, which began in mid afternoon and ended at 9pm.  I used a DJI Pocket 3 camera whose audio capabilities are pretty good for a tiny camera, but I attached with some difficulty the Zoom M3 in order to be able to forget about level setting.  Levels varied considerably, from scenes at some distance in the festival field, to standing right by the stage during live performances including a group of three drummers.

I realise that this is hardly a stealth device, but for occassions when stealth is not required, it's very light and simple to use.  In essence, it has a power button, a record toggle button, and that's about it.  Not even a display.

I was generally pleased with the sound quality, and the stereo image is excellent (and is recorded in both A/B and M/S formats so you can play with the width afterwards).  I was careful about how it was mounted to the video rig but I experienced no handling noise issues. 

Apart from the fiddly task of lining up the audio and video when editing, the biggest problem was dynamic range.  Most video that you see on YouTube has audio which has been captured via automatic gain control, and viewers would be quite disconcerted to hear a video with full dynamic range.  And let's face it, a substantial majority of viewers are using a phone where dynamic range means a lot of stuff being inaudible.  I decided that I would normalise the audio at the outset, clip by clip, but perhaps this was a mistake.  I then struggled to bring down the level of the performances, and bring up the level of the quiet bits, because the editing software I used didn't have enough control range for the task.  I then started over from scratch and used audio which I had pre-levelled using Reaper, although it was still a struggle.  I used a limiter VST to help matters, but I was careful that it was set only to catch transient peaks.

So you might wonder, what was the point of using 32 bit float audio and then squashing the dynamic range like that?  Well, the chief benefit was knowing that clipping at the outset would be very unlikely even close to the stage PA speakers.  At one point there is some clipping audible, but that could be heard with my own ears when recording, in other words, the canned music they used was clipped at the outset just for one item.  And I had a complete choice over final levels in the quietness of my 'studio' back home.

However, normalising 32 bit float audio from a live recording means that the most trivial and instantaneous peak may dictate the overall level of the result.  For instance, someone clapping enthusiastically near to the mic might cause a higher transient level than the performance audio.  In non 32 bit float recordings, if that got clipped it wouldn't matter much, because the transient was too short for the clip to be heard.   So the use of a limiter might actually be almost required in video post production, depending on the nature of the material.  But at least there's a choice, rather than being stuck with the wrong level at the outset.

Here's a link to the edited video - which is rather long but it has chapters which could enable you to skip to the drummers, where the audio is perhaps the most interesting.

https://youtu.be/KCT_izLIJqQ

Offline Ozpeter

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This morning was sunny and pleasantly warm with little wind, so I grabbed a video camera and the Zoom M2 MicTrak device and drove to a park about 15 minutes drive from my house at the edge of the Melbourne suburbs.  The last half of the drive is along single track dead straight roads where I passed I think one other vehicle coming the other way in that time.  In other words, once you get to the park there's no audible background suburban traffic rumble.  There's the odd small plane high overhead but that provides a bit of audible context.

Once there I was really struck by the silence.  I spend too much time in town!  The sound was punctuated by distant bird calls, and I walked down to the stream eventually and recorded the water, together with the sounds of a dog slurping it up and splashing around a bit.  The dog and its owner seemed to be the only other people in the whole park.

Normalising the files afterwards seemed to lift their level by about 30 to 40dB.  Before normalising they weren't much more than a thin line in the Audition display.  Despite the massive gain, I can't hear anything in the way of troublesome system noise.  I do hear the sounds of suburbia maybe 10km away!   The tiny sounds of nature are perfectly clear (and most of them I could not hear when I was at the location).  Even a few little flies buzzing around.  Frequency response seem well balanced.  Possibly I accidentally rolled off the top end a bit by covering the mic with two wind muffs just to be sure...

Really, the Zoom M2 seems to be a remarkably good device at the price.  Sure, there are all sorts of devices which not only have mics but have inputs too, but if you add the cost of the device and the cost of better-than-fitted mics, you don't end up with much of a bargain.  Nor do you end up with system with no dangling wires.  And as I've have said before - often! - the Zoom would not release a recorder with the guts of the F3, and with built in mics creating an end-to-end predefined system, if the mics were crap.  Otherwise it would be pointless.  IMHO.

Here's the result.  My YouTube channel is not monetized so I don't get any money from suggesting people might view it.

https://youtu.be/sP47wGM7jsU?si=YcYAXN0Y1yLXCUT9

Offline Niels

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Thanks Peter. I watched the first 10minutes.
That is impressive from a recorder from which you wouldn't expect much, judging from it's appearance  - at least in my opinion.

It could have been fun if you had also brought the H1 XLR and your Superlux - for comparison.

I am sure you are aware that the quietness of the scene you describe doesn't come across in the actual video.
The raised levels makes even the flies and the falling leafs sound deafeningly loud, but it is an excellent demonstration of the capabilities of the recorder/mics!
So much that I think I will get the M4 when I go to Japan in a few months, provided I can find confirmation that it uses the same microphones as the M2.
At the current price of 22,000 JPY, it crazy inexpensive for a 4ch recorder with XLR, seemingly good build-in mics and F3 preamps.
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Offline Ozpeter

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Indeed, if I hadn't raised the levels bigtime then the video might have been mistaken for one without sound!  I am so unused to really quiet places...

Offline rastasean

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Ozpeter, thanks for the video and the recording with the M2. The M2 certainly hasn't been a recorder I've spent much time considering, but the audio in this video sounds quite nice.
The dog lapping up the water out of the lake/stream (?) sounded really clear. I know the camera you have probably has a wide angle lens, so it's not quite clear how far away you were.

With the gain being bumped up so much, how did you not have handling noise, especially when you were walking? Were the camera and M2 connected somehow or were you holding them in your hands?
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Offline Ozpeter

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Ozpeter, thanks for the video and the recording with the M2. The M2 certainly hasn't been a recorder I've spent much time considering, but the audio in this video sounds quite nice.
The dog lapping up the water out of the lake/stream (?) sounded really clear. I know the camera you have probably has a wide angle lens, so it's not quite clear how far away you were.

With the gain being bumped up so much, how did you not have handling noise, especially when you were walking? Were the camera and M2 connected somehow or were you holding them in your hands?

Cheers, glad you found it interesting.  Yes, I was surprised that the dog lapping was so clear.  I wouldn't care to estimate the distance - put it this way, the dog noise is clearer on the recording than it was with my own ears at the time! 

I was pretty careful about handling noise.  I used a springy mount for the mic which was on a compact rig I devised for it and the camera, which included an extra handle to help maintain grip without too much noise.  And I was careful!  The section of the video where the level was closest to "normal" was when I walked through that gate near the start, which made a very helpful high pitched squeak followed by a kind of ring which decayed to silence.  You may notice that there's almost no background ambience in that short clip, but that is simply because the gain was raised very little due to the loudness of the gate. 

 

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