Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s  (Read 25648 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
My CA-UGLY, which I've been using to power my DPA 4061s is now giving me dropouts.  There's something loose inside the box plus the whole unit is just generally beat up anyway.  I don't think Chris Church is around anymore and his site lists the CA-UGLY 2 as out of stock.  To be honest I never liked the form factor of the CA-UGLY.  Now I'm taking the opportunity to seek a different solution.

Running 2x DPA 4061 terminating in 1/8" stereo mini to either a Sony A10 or Tascam DR2d.  Looking for the smallest footprint preamp/BB possible.

Any suggestions would be welcome.  TY in advance!
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 03:38:17 PM by tapeheadtoo »
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline beatkilla

  • Trade Count: (75)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2236
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2024, 07:36:17 PM »
I like this one,it takes a 9 volt battery and is super small.It's just a battery box though No preamp.


Sound pros SPSB 8 mkii

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2024, 09:21:44 AM »
Thanks beatkilla.

I do use a small Sound Pros battery box (SP-SPSB-10, A23 battery) for my other rig (SP-CMC-8/AT943 into A10 or DR2d).  I was under the impression I needed the CA-UGLY preamp to run the DPAs while the small SP battery box was sufficient for the ATs.  However I noticed I've been running the CA-UGLY on the lowest gain setting.  In essence it seems I'm using it as a straight battery box (no added gain).  I made test A/B recordings using both sets of mics into the Sound Pros box > A10.  Granted, volume of my computer speakers even at max volume doesn't come close to PA level at a rock show however the volume of both recorded files is similar.  My conclusion is that for loud shows the Sound Pros box should be sufficient for the DPAs.  (I could've been using it this whole time instead of fussing with the CA-UGLY.)  For quiet shows e.g. non amplified classical I would need more gain to go into the recorder, i.e. would need a preamp.

Can someone who understands mic powering better than I confirm that what I'm saying is true?

https://soundprofessionals.com/product/SP-SPSB-10/
« Last Edit: July 06, 2024, 09:28:54 AM by tapeheadtoo »
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline mgtaper

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2024, 08:33:35 PM »
The SP-SPSB-10 could potentially over-power/damage the DPA 4061's since it's providing 12 volts. Both, the SPSB 8 mkii & CA-UGLY provides 9 volts.

I personally use the phantom power adapters with my DPA 4661's(microdot), but I'm also looking for a battery box/small preamp option.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m310's, DPA 4023's, DPA 4661's, Line Audio CM4's, Busman bsc-1 k1,k2,k3 & k4, Busman modded nak 300's, stock nak 300's cp1, cp2 & cp4, Rode nt5's w/MJE -384k Roadster caps 
Cables: Kind Kables, Gak Cables and DarkTrain Silvers
Pres: Sound Devices MixPre 10 II, Sound Devices MixPre 3 II, Zoom F6, Tascam FR-AV2, Apogee Mini-me,  Edirol UA-5 BM2P+ mod, Mic2496
Bit Buckets:  HP IPAQ 2795H,  MicroTrack II(x2),  PMD 661

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2024, 08:52:33 PM »
honestly, with 4061s, just grab a deity pr2, forgo battery box and preamp, and grab the heat.
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline mgtaper

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 191
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2024, 09:04:46 PM »
honestly, with 4061s, just grab a deity pr2, forgo battery box and preamp, and grab the heat.

32 bit-float option sold me. 3V and 5V plug in power should suffice. Thanks!
Mics: Microtech Gefell m310's, DPA 4023's, DPA 4661's, Line Audio CM4's, Busman bsc-1 k1,k2,k3 & k4, Busman modded nak 300's, stock nak 300's cp1, cp2 & cp4, Rode nt5's w/MJE -384k Roadster caps 
Cables: Kind Kables, Gak Cables and DarkTrain Silvers
Pres: Sound Devices MixPre 10 II, Sound Devices MixPre 3 II, Zoom F6, Tascam FR-AV2, Apogee Mini-me,  Edirol UA-5 BM2P+ mod, Mic2496
Bit Buckets:  HP IPAQ 2795H,  MicroTrack II(x2),  PMD 661

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2024, 09:06:04 PM »
At least right now it’s only 24/48 for stereo
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline robgronotte

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2024, 10:15:08 PM »
I use the Sound Professionals SP-SPSB-1 9v battery box. It's bigger than the 12v one with the mini batteries, but still pretty small, and I haven't had it set off any metal detectors.

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2024, 12:51:18 PM »
OP here, thanks for all the input so far.

From other threads I understand the DPA 4061's require 5v of power.  I assume that's the minimum.  What is the maximum?  As mgtaper noted, I don't want to fry my 4061s with 12v (had been using 9v CA-UGLY in past).

The Deity PR-2 is intriguing.  So it will truly provide 5v thus avoiding the need for any type of battery box?  Is this a new thing--portable recorders supplying enough PIP to power small microphones?  How much power does the Sony A10 provide?  I can't seem to find any documentation.

Addendum:
Just found this Gutbucket post from 2010:

<<Found this- passed along to me a while back, reportedly the words of Bruce Myers, DPA N.America on powering DPA 406x:

"The typical range of voltage we recommend is between 4.5V and 9V with
the spec set at 6V. No caution needs to be taken at these levels.
No significant change in specs occurs when varying the voltage. Voltages
below 4.5V are insufficient to power the mic.
>>

So that's my answer.

Still curious re: the Deity PR-2.  Is it selectable between 3v and 5v?  I can't find a manual.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2024, 01:24:00 PM by tapeheadtoo »
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2024, 01:33:41 PM »
I didn't find a way to change the voltage so far
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline SMsound

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 261
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2024, 10:40:28 PM »
Why no DPA MMA6000 or D:Vice?

I have an MMA6000 for my microdot 4060 CORE's. It's a very nice preamp.
waves -> bits

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2024, 07:17:18 AM »
I'm sure the D:Vice and DPA preamps are great; I've been reading about them here for a long time.

They won't fit my application though.  I'm typically running multiple rigs (all stealth) including other ios devices.  Don't want to have to bring a third phone with me.  The DPAs are tertiary; needs to be set-and-forget.


Why no DPA MMA6000 or D:Vice?

I have an MMA6000 for my microdot 4060 CORE's. It's a very nice preamp.
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2024, 07:19:43 AM »
Why no DPA MMA6000 or D:Vice?

I have an MMA6000 for my microdot 4060 CORE's. It's a very nice preamp.

Neither is more available than the CA-Ugly. 
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5002
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2024, 12:55:10 AM »

Not a battery box or preamp but the Marantz PMD620 puts out 4.8V of PIP on it's mic input. Runs the DPA406x mics just fine. You can get them for around $100 and it's a small one box solution although an old one. Sounds good and super easy though. Runs 4 hours on 2 AAS.
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2024, 09:46:47 AM »
MMA6000 works nicely but is rather bulky for stealth, and has a significant metal case.  I stealthed it way back when until shifting to the much smaller CA-UGLY which was much better suited for pocketing.. especially after I shifted to recording 4 channels which necessitated using two of them.

I'm waiting to hear how well the Deity PR2 works out for Grawk and other early adopters.  If I can keep two of them in sync I may go that route in rebuilding my stealth rig in which I've been using a custom 4-channel_Ugly2 > DR2d.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Top Hat

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 79
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2024, 01:31:27 AM »
Seen this for sale on Taper Group. Not sure if this would work but here ya go

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=3894332277559253&set=g.369652864639555

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2024, 11:53:28 AM »
OP here, following up.  Thanks everyone for the input.  I ended up getting the Sound Pros SPSB 8 mkii which beatkilla had recommended.  Not as small as the SPSB 10 but still very stealthy.  I used it last weekend for a show and it was fine.  In fact, I should've been using this instead of the CA-UGLY these past ten (?) years as the form factor is more to my liking. My only concern is the bulky-ish right angle jack for going into the recorder; there's too much swing/play when inserted into the A10 unlike the smaller right angle and more flexible cable of my SPSB 10.  I had to make a little shim to take up the space between the right angle and the recorder and tape it down securely so it wouldn't move.

I still have my eye on the Deity pr2.  Would be nice to forgo the battery box and plug the 4061s straight in (supplies 5v, within the 4.5-9v range required).
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline beatkilla

  • Trade Count: (75)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2236
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2024, 01:57:24 PM »
OP here, following up.  Thanks everyone for the input.  I ended up getting the Sound Pros SPSB 8 mkii which beatkilla had recommended.  Not as small as the SPSB 10 but still very stealthy.  I used it last weekend for a show and it was fine.  In fact, I should've been using this instead of the CA-UGLY these past ten (?) years as the form factor is more to my liking. My only concern is the bulky-ish right angle jack for going into the recorder; there's too much swing/play when inserted into the A10 unlike the smaller right angle and more flexible cable of my SPSB 10.  I had to make a little shim to take up the space between the right angle and the recorder and tape it down securely so it wouldn't move.

I still have my eye on the Deity pr2.  Would be nice to forgo the battery box and plug the 4061s straight in (supplies 5v, within the 4.5-9v range required).


Attached are 2 pics of the small right angle cable I use with my A10.

No shim needed.

Get them on EBay …… there called “ Lil red whips”


Been using these for years no issues, super low profile

Offline tapeheadtoo

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 324
    • My Dime stuff
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2024, 05:07:46 PM »
Ah yes, the L'il Red Whips... I love 'em too... have probably bought around 20 over the years (keep losing them lol). 

The thing is... it would be another item in the chain and another point of failure... terminal right end jack into recorder good but introduces a new awkward connection point between the whip and the out cable for the box.  That being said, that still seems better than an unstable connection into the recorder.  Thank you for reminding me of the L'il Red Whips.
Mics: DPA 4061, AT953, Schoeps MK4, Shure MV88
Preamps/BB: SP-SPSB-10, Nbox, tinybox, ST-9100, CA-UGLY
Recorders: In use--Teenage Engineering TX6, Tascam DR-2d, Sony PCM-A10, Zoom L-20R; collecting dust--Sony M10, Ediirol R-09, Zoom H4n, Zoom H6, Cymatic LR16
Video: In use--Panasonic VX981, Panasonic ZS100, GoPro Hero 12, DJI Osmo Pocket 3; collecting dust--Sony HDR-CX520V, Sony HX9V, Panasonic ZS3/ZS7

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2024, 09:05:23 AM »
I ended up getting the Sound Pros SPSB 8 mkii which beatkilla had recommended.

Can you tell me where you found these? My CA-ugly appears to have bit the dust as well (one channel cutting out unless I get the cable sitting just right), and this seems like a good substitute option, but it's out of stock everywhere I'm looking.

Offline beatkilla

  • Trade Count: (75)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2236
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2024, 02:04:17 PM »
Contact sound professionals they make it for you. :cheers:

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2024, 03:20:17 PM »
Contact sound professionals they make it for you. :cheers:

Oh! Well, I already emailed Chris C. this morning, so hopefully he'll reply with an offer to do just that.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2024, 03:26:12 PM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

Offline robgronotte

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 371
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2024, 03:42:49 PM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

You can't use the MM box with the CMC-4U?

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2024, 03:44:43 PM »
You can't use the MM box with the CMC-4U?

I can, and will until I get a new one. But it's bulky.

Offline goodcooker

  • Trade Count: (46)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5002
  • Gender: Male
  • goes to 11
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2024, 01:08:36 PM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

I use the 12V SPSB 10 battery box with my CA11s. It's really small and runs for many shows on a single A23 battery. I had them make me one with an output jack instead of output cable and they had it to me very quickly. Highly recommend. Not that they need my endorsement around these parts but it is nice to have someone making niche products who has great customer service.
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2024, 01:10:36 PM »
I use the 12V SPSB 10 battery box with my CA11s. It's really small and runs for many shows on a single A23 battery. I had them make me one with an output jack instead of output cable and they had it to me very quickly. Highly recommend. Not that they need my endorsement around these parts but it is nice to have someone making niche products who has great customer service.

My SPSB-10 is on its way! Chris assures me it'll work fine with AT853s, planning on trying it out this weekend.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2024, 04:49:12 PM »
I use the 12V SPSB 10 battery box with my CA11s. It's really small and runs for many shows on a single A23 battery. I had them make me one with an output jack instead of output cable and they had it to me very quickly. Highly recommend. Not that they need my endorsement around these parts but it is nice to have someone making niche products who has great customer service.

My SPSB-10 is on its way! Chris assures me it'll work fine with AT853s, planning on trying it out this weekend.

Oh WOW it's tiny.


Offline Kyle K

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2024, 11:27:37 PM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

Is this not just a battery box? I don't see any details about adjustable gain.

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2024, 12:02:40 AM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

Is this not just a battery box? I don't see any details about adjustable gain.

It is just a battery box, as is the CA-Ugly and every other option mentioned in this thread.

Offline Craig T

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
    • LMA
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2024, 09:25:05 AM »
My CA-Ugly has gain, which I believe is adjustable with screw pots.  Not just a battery box.

And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

Is this not just a battery box? I don't see any details about adjustable gain.

It is just a battery box, as is the CA-Ugly and every other option mentioned in this thread.
Schoeps cmc6/4v / Beyer mc950 / Line Audio CM3, OM1 / ADK A51 / Church Audio CA-14
Naiant Tinybox v2.2 / NBox(P) / Church Audio ST9200 / CA-UGLY
Sony PCM-M10 / Zoom F3 / Zoom F6

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2024, 09:30:11 AM »
And Chris just replied and said they only offer the SP-SPSB-1 now in 9v, which is larger than I wanted.

He did also say that the SP-CMC-4Us, which I use 90% of the time, can handle up to 15v. So I may just get a smaller 12v battery box and use that. (I have an old 9v Microphone Madness box I can use with other mics.)

Is this not just a battery box? I don't see any details about adjustable gain.

It is just a battery box, as is the CA-Ugly and every other option mentioned in this thread.

Ca-ugly is a preamp
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2024, 11:28:03 AM »
Ca-ugly is a preamp

Then we're talking about two different devices. On Church Audio's site, it shows the Ugly as a battery box, and the Ugly 2 as a preamp.

https://www.church-audio.com/?v=0b3b97fa6688

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1703
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2024, 01:49:29 PM »
Ca-ugly is a preamp

Then we're talking about two different devices. On Church Audio's site, it shows the Ugly as a battery box, and the Ugly 2 as a preamp.

https://www.church-audio.com/?v=0b3b97fa6688
We can question Church's naming convention if we like, but that is an "Ugly Battery Box" or CA-UBB not a CA-UGLY. The CA-UGLY preamp was the earlier generation of the current CA-UGLY2.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 01:55:41 PM by jefflester »
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline nulldogmas

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1843
    • How I Escaped My Uncertain Fate
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2024, 04:26:26 PM »
We can question Church's naming convention if we like, but that is an "Ugly Battery Box" or CA-UBB not a CA-UGLY. The CA-UGLY preamp was the earlier generation of the current CA-UGLY2.

Aha, okay. I missed the existence of the CA-Ugly preamp entirely, then, so my bad for any confusion.

The OP said "smallest available preamp/BB possible," and the SP-SPSB-10 is in the running in terms of BBs. (Though as mgtaper noted, maybe not for 4061s because it's 12v.) But correct that it has no gain.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2024, 04:28:00 PM by nulldogmas »

Offline Kyle K

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 219
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2024, 12:00:40 AM »
Pretty moot question on my part regardless, sorry, I spaced on the details early on in the thread specifically related to feeling as though gain would be unnecessary for most of the taping they were doing, hence a BB being fine. Posted in a haste having trouble making heads or tails of the sound professionals site. If one *did* need an actual preamp alternative to the CA-UGLY/UGLY 2, I am curious if anyone has any recommendations. Is there anything that actually has similar form factor/size?

Offline adrianb

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2024, 04:03:36 PM »
I have loads of different battery boxes in my collection. By far the smallest is the Soundman A3 Adapter which provides 6v of power and is tiny.

Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline scdegraaf

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2024, 02:11:00 PM »
I have a similar question: my battery box is DPA's MPS6020, which DPA doesn't make anymore. I read several suggestions here, but my mics have microdots and none of the battery boxes do. I  read somewhere (can't find it anymore) that on Ebay I can buy 2 microdot adapters for XLR. What would be the next steps, meaning what goes between the mics with XLR and the recorder.  My recorder only has a combined aux/line in input.

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 4127
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2024, 02:19:51 PM »
^ You could get something like this (there are several options) and use a typical battery box with a 3.5 mm input. Then a 3.5 mm - 3.5 mm cable to go from the battery box to the recorder.

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2024, 08:26:08 AM »
For use with a typical minijack input battery box, use one of the alternate microdot Y cables listed below the one on the Ebay page Aaron has linked above.  The one on the linked page features a screw-in locking mini-plug, which is great if your battery box features a threaded mini-jack input, but most do not.  Those Y's adapt your microdot terminated mics to a TRS stereo mini plug which most battery boxes will accept.

Alternate is to use XLR phantom adapters in place of a battery box, into a recorder that features XLR inputs and phantom power.  They convert phantom power to plug-in-power.  That option typically means using a larger recorder that features those things, along the two XLR phantom adapters, but eliminates the battery box with its extra battery to deal with.  Options for that are many, including DPA's DAD6001 which features microdot inputs (no microdot adapter needed, but the rigidly mounted microdot inputs stick out vulnerably, so usually best to use a short flexible XLR patch cable between adapter and recorder), Naiant PFAs which have the input on a short flexible cable, and can be terminated to miniplug, mini-xlr, or you can probably send one of those microdot Y's to Jon and have him use that to create short-cable microdot inputs), or pretty much any other XLR phantom adapter designed to power 2-wire PIP mics with between 5 and 10 volts.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline adrianb

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2024, 02:00:29 PM »
I’ve been using this XLR adapter to provide 9V of PIP and have been very impressed with it. I have the low profile version which I think is essential.

https://immersivesoundscapes.com/earsight-pip-xlr-adapter/

I wonder if it’s possible to take the 2.5 - 3.0v PIP of these small recorders and use a step-up converter to take it up to 5v. Some of these converters are tiny.
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline rocksuitcase

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8814
  • Gender: Male
    • RockSuitcase: stage photography
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2024, 12:35:59 PM »
I’ve been using this XLR adapter to provide 9V of PIP and have been very impressed with it. I have the low profile version which I think is essential.

https://immersivesoundscapes.com/earsight-pip-xlr-adapter/

I wonder if it’s possible to take the 2.5 - 3.0v PIP of these small recorders and use a step-up converter to take it up to 5v. Some of these converters are tiny.
really cool product. Looks well made also
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI x2; Sony PCM-M10

Offline grawk

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 668
  • Gender: Male
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2024, 01:45:26 PM »
Here's what chatgpt says it will take to accomplish it:

To create a voltage doubler circuit on a stripboard using the LM2665 IC to take 3V DC input and output 6V DC, you can follow the schematic below. This circuit uses the LM2665 IC, which is a switched capacitor voltage converter specifically designed for voltage doubling applications.

Components needed:

   •   LM2665 IC
   •   Capacitors (2x 1μF, 16V or higher)
   •   Optional: 0.1μF capacitor for decoupling

Stripboard Layout:

3V IN ----------------------+
                            |
                            C1 (1μF)
                            |
                            +----- VOUT (6V)
                            |
                            C2 (1μF)
                            |
                            +----- GND
                            |
                            C3 (0.1μF) - GND
                            |
                            GND

   •   Connect pin 1 (SW) of the LM2665 to the positive terminal of the input.
   •   Connect pin 3 (VOUT) of the LM2665 to the positive terminal of the output.
   •   Connect pin 2 (GND) of the LM2665 to the ground (GND).
   •   Place the capacitors C1 and C2 between the positive and negative terminals of the input and output, respectively.
   •   Optionally, place capacitor C3 between pin 2 (GND) and the ground (GND) for decoupling.

This circuit will double the input voltage, providing 6V at the output.
4015gs/4018a/kk14/nohype srm1->mma:a d-vice/sonosax sx-r4+/lectrosonics spdr/deity pr2/marantz pmd-430

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2024, 03:11:12 PM »
Liking the right angle low-profile XLR adapter option at the link above.

Started typing the reply below this morning but just returned to post it.  Grawk has fleshed out the idea with more detail in his post above.  The questions about needed current, minimum supply voltage, and filtering still stand..

Step up converter is an interesting idea. Would essentially retain battery box battery box like circuitry, with the step-up-converter in place of the battery, powered by the PIP from the recorder.  May depend on having sufficient PIP voltage and current available to power the converter, also unsure how clean the supply out of the converter might be and much filtering might be needed to clean it up.  If it could be made small enough to built into a Y adapter to essentially eliminate having an extra box-device as well as they extra battery to worry about, it would make for a quite attractive option.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline adrianb

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2024, 04:23:39 PM »
Liking the right angle low-profile XLR adapter option at the link above.

I’ve purchased one and using it with my Zoom H1 XLR to provide 9v power and I’m really impressed with it.

I like the look of some of the products he’s selling, particularly the neat 110 degree microphone pairs deigned to make the Zoom F3 and Tascam FR-AV2 portable all in one recorders. I spoke to the owner of the site and suggested he didn’t join them but sold them separately so they could be used on any recorder and he went and designed them straight away and I’m taking delivery of my pair tomorrow.

https://immersivesoundscapes.com/earsight-thumb-cardio-angled/

Back to the step-up voltage idea, I’ve stopped using battery boxes simply because it’s another battery to make sure is charged. I’m not disciplined enough for that, and just want to keep things simple. The XLR 48v/9v step-down adapter works for me, just as would a PIP 3v/6v step-up adapter.

I have just bought these boost converters and will be thinking if I can implement them somehow.

https://www.amazon.com/Comidox-Module-Voltage-Converter-0-9-5V/dp/B07L76KLRY/



Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline joeldotc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2024, 01:27:05 PM »

I have just bought these boost converters and will be thinking if I can implement them somehow.

https://www.amazon.com/Comidox-Module-Voltage-Converter-0-9-5V/dp/B07L76KLRY/

Can these pass the AC signal back through to the recorder? I’m not sure exactly how it works, but that’s where I get confused in the circuit :)

Could a capacitor be added in parallel with the converter to pass through the signal while blocking any DC?

I could see how you could use these in a battery box to get a 1.2 V AA battery up to 5 V of bias, but I think using the PiP from a recorder leads to some issues? I’d love to hear if someone more knowledgeable could educate me!

Offline adrianb

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2024, 02:05:26 PM »

I have just bought these boost converters and will be thinking if I can implement them somehow.

https://www.amazon.com/Comidox-Module-Voltage-Converter-0-9-5V/dp/B07L76KLRY/

Can these pass the AC signal back through to the recorder? I’m not sure exactly how it works, but that’s where I get confused in the circuit :)

Could a capacitor be added in parallel with the converter to pass through the signal while blocking any DC?

I could see how you could use these in a battery box to get a 1.2 V AA battery up to 5 V of bias, but I think using the PiP from a recorder leads to some issues? I’d love to hear if someone more knowledgeable could educate me!

I received the boost converters today and can confirm they work perfectly. I have tested them with input voltages between 1.5v and 5.0v and the output voltage remains stable at 5.0v. They are also tiny, 10mm x 10mm.

How to make them work is another question entirely, and for the moment beyond my knowledge, but I’m determined to make it work. At some point I will open up my Zoom H1 XLR and have a look to see how much space is in there.

The Zoom has a USB-C input to power the device, but doesn’t supply external power. Assuming the USB PCB board is a normal type I might be able to add 5v external supply which I could then utilise in a battery box.

Also thinking about drilling an additional 3.5mm input with 5v PIP.

High possibility that I will end up bricking my new recorder  :smash:

Any suggestions?
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2024, 04:29:07 PM »
I received the boost converters today and can confirm they work perfectly. I have tested them with input voltages between 1.5v and 5.0v and the output voltage remains stable at 5.0v. [..snip..]

Any suggestions?

Try powering them using PIP from the recorder, and from a few different recorders if you have them available, confirming good output voltage.  I'd then modify a standard battery box circuit, replacing the battery with one of the converters.  Should be able to use a single converter in place of the battery.

1) +V in to the converter taps into Signal+ on the recorder side of the series DC blocking capacitor in the battery box circuit.  Do so through a series resistor, same value as the others in the circuit. 
2) +V out from converter gets connected the same as the battery it is replacing (through the resistor on the microphone side of the blocking capacitor).
^ Duplicated for both channels, you'll end up with 4 resistors total, in pairs arranged symmetrically on either side of the capacitors.
3) Try it.
4) Maybe add capacitance in parallel to the V+ out from the converter to achieve a cleaner supply to the mics if needed. Not sure if such supply filtering will be needed or not or what the appropriate value might be, but won't hurt to include it. Intent is to filter out any high frequency switching noise from the converter.  The converter's stated operating frequency is 150kHz. 

I'm not a circuit designer! Pretty sure the above should work, but fully open to correction from anyone who knows better!

If this works, it will eliminate the battery box battery and should work with any recorder that provides PIP.  PIP current draw from the recorder will increase, so check battery run time while recording.  Current draw for powering a pair of electret mics is pretty minimal, so hopefully the additional current draw due to the inefficiency mentioned below is a non issue.  The converter along with the two additional resistors and possible filter capacitors should be smaller than a battery.. guessing maybe half the size of a 9V.  Small enough that I'd look into building it into a small node placed at the Y junction of the mics>recorder cable.

No modification of the recorder is necessary as long as the recorder provides PIP on the desired input.  But of course you can also could build it into the recorder if you like.

I took a look at the link posted for the converters. Here is the most helpful review-
Quote from:  Stephen Metzger, amazon reviewer
"They are super-simple to use (just 3-wires), and they worked well out of the box. The 5V is stable and clean (add a few caps, downstream, of course).

They are not at all efficient. Best case, when the input voltage is 4.5V+ (fully charged battery), they yielded about 84% efficiency. However (and this dramatic a drop was surprising to me), the efficiency drops as the input voltage drops. With 2.8V going in (like when a battery is nearing exhaustion), the efficiency is 44%. Around 2.8V they get a little wonky and won't up-convert voltage much below that.

So this means that as your battery drains, the efficiency drops, requiring more and more power from the battery to satisfy a constant load, for example. It's an accelerating cycle that drains the battery really quickly.

That's too bad, since these are tiny, easy to deploy units with a relatively clean output. They're kind-of battery killers, though. Modern DC/DC converters should be able to maintain 90%+ efficiency over their full range of input voltages.

For non-battery powered applications where power does not matter, or your load is very, very light, and all you need to do is convert a voltage between about 3V-5V to a stable 5.0V output, they'd probably be OK."
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline adrianb

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 285
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2024, 05:03:29 PM »
Thanks for all that info Gutbucket, very useful but also a lot to digest.

I have already tested the booster with the PIP 2.5v from my Zoom and can confirm that it produces a clean 5.0v output.

I think what I will do first is utilise the Soundman A3 battery box, which utilises a 6v battery, and replace the battery with one of these boosters to make a battery free battery box. It should have all the blocking capacitors required already.

All I am trying to do is simplify to process by removing another battery from the setup. It seems that it might have a detrimental effect on the life of the recorder batteries, but with the small recorders I use I normally get 15 hours of use so should be okay.

The A3 is easy to disassemble and to access the wiring and small PCB.   
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

Offline joeldotc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2024, 05:56:07 PM »
1) +V in to the converter taps into Signal+ on the recorder side of the series DC blocking capacitor in the battery box circuit.  Do so through a series resistor, same value as the others in the circuit. 
2) +V out from converter gets connected the same as the battery it is replacing (through the resistor on the microphone side of the blocking capacitor).
^ Duplicated for both channels, you'll end up with 4 resistors total, in pairs arranged symmetrically on either side of the capacitors.
3) Try it.
4) Maybe add capacitance in parallel to the V+ out from the converter to achieve a cleaner supply to the mics if needed. Not sure if such supply filtering will be needed or not or what the appropriate value might be, but won't hurt to include it. Intent is to filter out any high frequency switching noise from the converter.  The converter's stated operating frequency is 150kHz. 

So I guess the circuit (for each channel) would look like this? With those two caps between Vi and Vo to ground being potentially optional depending on if the converter can be stable without them or not.

I think what I will do first is utilise the Soundman A3 battery box, which utilises a 6v battery, and replace the battery with one of these boosters to make a battery free battery box. It should have all the blocking capacitors required already.

I think you could use one converter for each channel to increase your stereo separation. One would probably work though but I’d wanna test it to see if it sounds fine. If you opt to just use one, i believe it would be the same schematic I drew but with a duplicate circuit of resistors/dc blocking cap into the second channel (edit: added a second pic)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2024, 07:33:24 PM by joeldotc »

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2024, 10:46:05 AM »
The non-circuit designer in me hesitates to reply and defers to someone more circuit savvy..

With those two caps between Vi and Vo to ground being potentially optional depending on if the converter can be stable without them or not.

Not sure what additional components may be needed to achieve converter stability. 

As far as power supply filtering to the microphone goes, I believe those additional capacitors in the circuit diagrams above will create a low-pass filter that not only affects the converter output as desired, but also the audio signal which is not desirable.  So if needed, and if correct, the fc corner frequency of that filter will need to be tuned high enough to filter supply ripple while not adversely affecting audible frequency response. 

I'm not sure if filtering of the converter's output might instead entail placing a capacitor in parallel with the resistor between Vo and Mic+ on the mic side of the converter (lots of not sure hand-waving here).  I don't think one is need on the Recorder+ side, unless the PIP supply voltage from the recorder powering the converter also needs filtering for some reason.

Quote
I think you could use one converter for each channel to increase your stereo separation. One would probably work though but I’d wanna test it to see if it sounds fine. If you opt to just use one, i believe it would be the same schematic I drew but with a duplicate circuit of resistors/dc blocking cap into the second channel (edit: added a second pic)

The purpose of the resistors on the recorder side is to maintain separation between channels across the shared power supply connection to a single converter or battery.  If using two converters, one per mic channel, it may be possible to eliminate the resistor(s) on the recorder side, since each converter will be supplied with PIP via its own separate channel.  If using a single converter you'd want to retain the resistors, same as in a (single) battery powered supply.  But maybe there is a good case to be made for keeping them in there either way.

Again, I very much defer to someone more circuit savvy.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline joeldotc

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 50
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2024, 11:19:56 AM »
I'm happy to publicly display my lack of knowledge ;D I like being proven wrong, and I hope it's clear anything I ever say should be taken with a grain of salt since I'm not even close to an expert! Being wrong in public is a great way to get someone smarter to chime in :P

Not sure what additional components may be needed to achieve converter stability. 

As far as power supply filtering to the microphone goes, I believe those additional capacitors in the circuit diagrams above will create a low-pass filter that not only affects the converter output as desired, but also the audio signal which is not desirable.  So if needed, and if correct, the fc corner frequency of that filter will need to be tuned high enough to filter supply ripple while not adversely affecting audible frequency response. 

I looked more into the converter itself and it looks like it already has filtering caps at the output (and they're between the output and ground btw). Also found an additional teardown of the converter which confirms this and recommends an additional filtering cap at the output, but that may not be required in our case. Probably best to do some circuit calculations to ensure all the additional components have no effect on the response.

boost converter teardown (note: this is the 3.3 V converter, so the values might not match the 5 V version):
https://dzrmo.wordpress.com/2017/04/26/ce012-step-up-boost-whats-inside/

converter spec sheet:
https://archive.espec.ws/files/ME2108%20Series.pdf

I think you're right that the capacitor on the input to the converter is not required since I'm sure the recorder is already filtering the PiP voltage output.

Quote
If using two converters, one per mic channel, it may be possible to eliminate the resistor(s) on the recorder side, since each converter will be supplied with PIP via its own separate channel

I think you're right here as well - probably only required for stereo separation when using one converter. But, the resistors might be required if the PiP supply is too hot for the input to the converter (?) - based of Adrian's tests it seems like that's not the case though.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 11:23:01 AM by joeldotc »

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16443
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: CA-UGLY bit the dust, need another preamp solution for DPA 4061s
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2024, 11:36:54 AM »
I'm happy to publicly display my lack of knowledge ;D I like being proven wrong, and I hope it's clear anything I ever say should be taken with a grain of salt since I'm not even close to an expert! Being wrong in public is a great way to get someone smarter to chime in :P

Totally with you!

Quote
[snip..] But, the resistors might be required if the PiP supply is too hot for the input to the converter (?) - based of Adrian's tests it seems like that's not the case though.

Those resistors are arranged in series with the load, so they'll limit available current, but won't decrease voltage.  If they were in parallel with the load they would decrease voltage and not limit current.

musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.117 seconds with 76 queries.
© 2002-2025 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF