Topic: What portable recorders use 32 bit dual ADC with 3.5mm input if any?

[ICatchSounds]

Not sure if there is any small recorders that use dual ADC by way of 3.5mm input. That also have built in mics. If there are, please list any you know of. Thanks.

[Niels]

Can you give an example of what you think is small?

[Ozpeter]

The H5studio is stated by Zoom to have dual ADCs in the mic module, and the mic module is where the 3.5mm input is.  I haven't asked them about that input specifically but I can't picture that there would be single ADC circuit for that input given that there's a dual ADC for the mics themselves.

[ICatchSounds]

Can you give an example of what you think is small?

Tascam X8 and smaller.

[ICatchSounds]

The H5studio is stated by Zoom to have dual ADCs in the mic module, and the mic module is where the 3.5mm input is.  I haven't asked them about that input specifically but I can't picture that there would be single ADC circuit for that input given that there's a dual ADC for the mics themselves.

Will try and get an answer from Zoom on that, thanks. I know the Tascam X6, X8 use a single ADC for their 3.5mm.

[Niels]

.... I know the Tascam X6, X8 use a single ADC for their 3.5mm.

Where is that documented?
I was under the impression that that dual ADCs in X6 and X8  applied to the build in mics as well - and since using the 3.5mm disables the microphones (like in the H5Studio) it would be odd if 3.5mm didn't also use both the available ADCs?

[VibrationOfLife]

.... I know the Tascam X6, X8 use a single ADC for their 3.5mm.

Where is that documented?
I was under the impression that that dual ADCs in X6 and X8  applied to the build in mics as well - and since using the 3.5mm disables the microphones (like in the H5Studio) it would be odd if 3.5mm didn't also use both the available ADCs?

3.5 does not disable the internal mics.  The external in only disables the 5-6 xlr ports.

[Niels]

3.5 does not disable the internal mics.  The external in only disables the 5-6 xlr ports.

Sorry; I don't understand what you are saying.

If I read the specs on the X8 correctly: You have to remove the two microphones to use the 3.5mm Jacks below the microphone sockets: therefore use of the 3.5mm Jacks will disable the mics - as they are no longer connected.
The manual says: Input jacks 1/2 support plug-in power and can be used to connect lavalier mics with mini 3.5mm (1/8”) TRS plugs (Tip: HOT, Ring: COLD, Sleeve: GND).

I do see that the other 3.5mm jack on the side of the deck labeled "Ext In" explicitly says that it has only one ADC, but that is not intended for microphone recording, more likely phone calls etc. for the podcast functionality.

If you want to use 3.5mm on the X8 you should use those under the microphones (you'll need a Y cable splitter if your mics are terminated in one 3.5mm stereo jack).
I see no mention of input 1/2 being only one ADC.

[Niels]

I also took a quick look at the X6 manual.

I notice:

• The 3.5mm jack is labeled "MIC/EXT IN" not just EXT IN as with the X8.
• Line 1/2 (the internal non-removeable mics) can not be used together with the MIC/EXT IN. It is either or.
• Unlike the X8 there is NO mention that the 3.5mm jack on the side of the X6 deck only uses one ADC.

This leaves me thinking that both the X6 and the X8 uses dual ADC on the 3.5mm MIC inputs. Anything else doesn't make sense.

[ICatchSounds]

I also took a quick look at the X6 manual.

I notice:

• The 3.5mm jack is labeled "MIC/EXT IN" not just EXT IN as with the X8.
• Line 1/2 (the internal non-removeable mics) can not be used together with the MIC/EXT IN. It is either or.
• Unlike the X8 there is NO mention that the 3.5mm jack on the side of the X6 deck only uses one ADC.

This leaves me thinking that both the X6 and the X8 uses dual ADC on the 3.5mm MIC inputs. Anything else doesn't make sense.

Not sure about the X8 but the X6 say not dual ADC. See the part I highlighted in yellow.

[Niels]

Wow. It is a disgrace one has to look at the block diagram to find that information.

[Gutbucket]

^ Yet the diagram does not clarify, indicating that both the [ch 1/2] and [Mic/Ext L/R] inputs share the same circuit path through the preamp up to the ADC.

[ICatchSounds]

^ Yet the diagram does not clarify, indicating that both the [ch 1/2] and [Mic/Ext L/R] inputs share the same circuit path through the preamp up to the ADC.

Yes, that is odd. I can say that when recording with onboard mics the levels are way lower than any recording I have made with the 3.5mm. No matter which external mics I use.  Also the PIP voltage is lower than any old recorder I own.

[VibrationOfLife]

3.5 does not disable the internal mics.  The external in only disables the 5-6 xlr ports.

Sorry; I don't understand what you are saying.

If I read the specs on the X8 correctly: You have to remove the two microphones to use the 3.5mm Jacks below the microphone sockets: therefore use of the 3.5mm Jacks will disable the mics - as they are no longer connected.
The manual says: Input jacks 1/2 support plug-in power and can be used to connect lavalier mics with mini 3.5mm (1/8”) TRS plugs (Tip: HOT, Ring: COLD, Sleeve: GND).

I do see that the other 3.5mm jack on the side of the deck labeled "Ext In" explicitly says that it has only one ADC, but that is not intended for microphone recording, more likely phone calls etc. for the podcast functionality.

If you want to use 3.5mm on the X8 you should use those under the microphones (you'll need a Y cable splitter if your mics are terminated in one 3.5mm stereo jack).
I see no mention of input 1/2 being only one ADC.

You are correct that the ext in is for an external source and does not provide PIP for mics.  I was just pointing out that you can record a source from it, say patched from another recorder or a sbd, but that doing so eliminates your ability to also grab a source from the 5-6 XLR's on the right hand side.  It's a detail that is buried in the manual that you have to be aware of if you are recording from multiple sources.

[Ozpeter]

I do think that prospective purchasers, especially savvy ones like all of us (!), deserve a proper technical description of the inner workings of these devices.  It doesn't need to give away trade secrets.  But it should tell us what kind of circuitry is employed for which inputs, which inputs have dual ADC and which single, and in the case of single, whether there is anything being done to the audio to achieve any dynamic range enhancement (and roughly what) or whether it's simply 24 bits stored as 32 bit float.  Also, what exactly any level controls are doing - are they in the analog domain or purely digital? 

Wouldn't it be good if, in respect of the H5Studio (taking a new device as an example), the guy from Zoom with the big beard did an extra video on top of the usual marketing video, telling us such stuff in a 'technical briefing' or whatever it might be called.

It continues to amaze me that while the way dual ADCs work has been described in detail in probably hundreds of articles and videos, as far as I know single ADC inner workings are still the subject of pure speculation.  Some of that speculation has been offered by People Who Know Stuff here and elsewhere, but it's still not coming from the companies themselves.  As far as I have seen anyway.