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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: junkbondking on March 15, 2004, 02:23:10 PM
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i have heard it is 3 split omnis in a triangluar pattern, but nothing about separation (either vertically or horizontally)
anyone have any pics of it in use ?
anyone ever run it "
does it look like this:
stage
x x
x
since summer is approaching, and red rocks is always fun to run splits, i thought i w0uld try this for either the dead or the $CI, ABB runs.
thanking you
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The Healy method is taking two omni's and spacing them ear distance apart with the caps facing out. Tim and I did Utah and Kansas City like this last Summer...
Dave
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what Dave said....
maybe you're thinking of a Decca-Tree?
http://www.acmi.net.au/AIC/DECCA_TREE.html
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you guys did that with the u89's ??? pointed to the side ? thats fucked up, no way im doing that at red rocks then.
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Dave,
Do you face the caps at 180*? Like >-- --< (nice diagram, huh?)
Since it's only ear distance too, i gather you ran both mics on the same stand?
And would it hurt if one mic was 20mm higher than the other? I don't have a stereo bar, so i'd just clamp one on top of the other, and face them outward.
Thanks
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I ran it with the mk5's and my tubes. What's fucked up about it? You won't know until you try it..right? I think the Kansas City tapes sound sick played back on serious speakers...
Dave
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huh?
they are setup vertically as always but the diaphragm is at 90* from the sound source....
I ran it for Bela at the Botanical Gardens too... sounds pretty good. I prefer spaced omni's but if you don't have the room this works well.
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don't think you want to do it at red rocks...i think it needs to be flat (little reflection)...also, it is not supposed to work as well with LD's as with small diaphragm omnis...supposedly the dual-diaphragm large capsule mics do not work as well in this technique, but i know people have disagreed about that...could be another doug oade "magic 8-ball" myth.
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yes Teejay! you've got it. and I wouldn't sweat a small vertical distance.
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and I wouldn't run omni's at red rocks... too many reflections.
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and I wouldn't run omni's at red rocks... too many reflections.
unless you run em split, so that each mic is on axis and you're in the 4th row...then i think you could get away with it.
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dave: the walls at red rocks have a lot of reflection off of them, which is why it would be a fucked up pattern to run there. especially if you are above row 20-22, where the steepness increases and the walls get bigger.
i'll probably just end up trying it for one of the sci sets anyway.
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Yep...I set them up facing out 180 degrees...
And I wouldn't want to try it at Red Rocks because of the steep incline, but would definitely go for it at a big open shed with no roof...
Dave
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didn't ian run 40' splits at usana this summer. i would also think that the gorge would be another spot to run splits. about 1/2 way up the cement of course.
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I doubt Ian ran a 40ft split in Utah...
The section there was VERY small....
Dave
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Nice. I'll try it at the Molson Amphitheater in Toronto this summer...
since you say "no walls", I wonder how a tape would turn out running healy at the front of the lawn with some beefy windscreens. Any experiences?
Travis
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i thought they split the section at usana.....
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omni's from the lawn are amazing...
I like to run them outdoors in open air situations (ie. no roof or sides) and preferably on flat or gently sloping ground.
at your average outdoor shed, if I was stuck on the lawn taping... I would run the omni's.
if you have the room to run split omni's do that, if you need to stay on one stand the Healy method is a nice alternative.
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It was split only because of a stairwell in the middle of it...
Dave
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I ran it with the mk5's and my tubes. What's fucked up about it? You won't know until you try it..right? I think the Kansas City tapes sound sick played back on serious speakers...
Dave
would like to hear this...any chance of a torrent or a b+p?
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yeah, i was one section over from the section and thought i saw splits. but i also took chocs that nite tto, so i was seeing all sorts of stuff.
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Thanks tim,
I was worried about not having any use for the omni caps... For summer tours sounds like they'll get just as much use as the cards.
I've got two jazz festivals and one blugrass planned for this summer, i'll be able to try lots of the outdoor omni configs there....
Will the DPA windscreens be fine for alot of outdoor taping in open spaces?
Travis
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If you are taping at outdoor open air festivals bring two stands, set em up 6 feet or so apart, sit back and enjoy.
Omni's are my favorite pattern, they are so unbelievably "natural" sounding... no coloration whatsoever. You'll know what I mean when you run them. I like them so much I'm playing around with running them indoors.
Omni's can bring some serious lowend though... the bass sounds very natural but goes waaaayyyyy down there.
as for windscreens... well, with omni's you can get by without windscreens at all... but the dpa's would be fine too.
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Hehe...apparently I was fucked up that night. :P After 20 shows and 7,000 miles I am lucky I can remember anything. I just got out all my tapes from the Summer to check em out. I ran the 5's split 5 feet in Utah and ran the Healy method for Kansas City. So, you probably did see my mics split.
Sorry for the confusion...
Dave
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Heath....I can do a DAT B&P...
Dave
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oh, and +t for the help guys
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no sweat... let us know if you've got anything else. contrary to popular belief I can actually contribute more than smart-ass comments to this place ;)
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contrary to popular belief I can actually contribute more than smart-ass comments to this place ;)
like quality pictures of escott doing his best impression of Touchdown Jesus FOB.
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exactly!
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no sweat... let us know if you've got anything else. contrary to popular belief I can actually contribute more than smart-ass comments to this place
take your mono soundboard & scram smart ass
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no sweat... let us know if you've got anything else. contrary to popular belief I can actually contribute more than smart-ass comments to this place ;)
I wouldnt veer too much from what your good at...we all have our place in life ;D
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no sweat... let us know if you've got anything else. contrary to popular belief I can actually contribute more than smart-ass comments to this place ;)
I wouldnt veer too much from what your good at...we all have our place in life ;D
the world needs ditch diggers too!
-Judge Smails
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watch tim's post count go way down once he starts being a real lawyer.
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bunch of funny guys, eh?
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thank god for me that beligerent assholes are needed at times too :)
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watch tim's post count go way down once he starts being a real lawyer.
if it doesnt we know that some client is getting charge billable hours for Tim to keep up his TS habit
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thats for sure. each week, we gets stats here on revs, calls, total talk time etc etc. my average talk time is 3mins 15 secs. i take about 65 calls a day. it works out to a little over 3.5 hours of actually doing work. not bad.
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care to explain what you mean Mike?
I know what you mean but I think you'll be better at articulating it!
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so you could probably still do it, just with more spacing between the caps...if healy is supposed to be 4 or 5 inches separation or so (the width of your head), make the LD's 7 or 8...would that work?
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Nice job Mike...
as to what Damon is saying I compensated for the rear capsules in just this manner the first time I ran it. So if running LD's a but more spacing may be in order but you can still setup on one stand.
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thanks mike. i don't know exactly where i can try this now, execept for telluride bluegrass. maybe horning's too.
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ned-fest
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no way man. i hit up ned fest 2 years ago. cold rain, wind, not a decent betty to be seen. those wooks can keep their mtn fest.
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i have done a search for the jdisc mike. depending on the summer shows besides that $CI/ABB i'll prolly get one. if the dead run 5 nites here again, i'm sure i will. might u be interested in a trip out here for that ?
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evidently you have not seen me try to build anything physical. a bond ladder i can build, a portfolio i can construct.... but using saws, levels, is just a disaster waiting to happen.
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ok, i will think about it. might have to bring ramsden into it, if he can mod gear, im sure he can help me out.
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evidently you have not seen me try to build anything physical. a bond ladder i can build, a portfolio i can construct.... but using saws, levels, is just a disaster waiting to happen.
Have you read the argument against laddering based on investment delay ? Has anyone quantified it in percentages ?
Oh, wait, that's work....sorry, man. My bad.
The Jecklin disk can be made by ambitious grade-schoolers.
Perhaps you have kids in the family ?
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"The Jecklin disk can be made by ambitious grade-schoolers."
clearly you have never met JBK.
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so you could probably still do it, just with more spacing between the caps...if healy is supposed to be 4 or 5 inches separation or so (the width of your head), make the LD's 7 or 8...would that work?
See, I don't think you can run the Healy Method with LD's. It is not really the Healy Method anymore, because you have two diaphragms on the LD capsule. When LD's are run in omni, technically it doesn't matter if they are running 90º to the sound source or aiming directly at it because with two diaphragm's, there is no real "aiming" of an LD when in omni. It's non-directional in that pattern.
When using the SD's though, you eliminate this problem when running them at 90º to the sound source, back to back aiming away from each other due to the lack of the rear diaphragm. This creates the spacing and time difference.
This is just my thoughts on all of this...
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interesting Jason.... I have no real idea...
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so you could probably still do it, just with more spacing between the caps...if healy is supposed to be 4 or 5 inches separation or so (the width of your head), make the LD's 7 or 8...would that work?
See, I don't think you can run the Healy Method with LD's. It is not really the Healy Method anymore, because you have two diaphragms on the LD capsule. When LD's are run in omni, technically it doesn't matter if they are running 90º to the sound source or aiming directly at it because with two diaphragm's, there is no real "aiming" of an LD when in omni. It's non-directional in that pattern.
When using the SD's though, you eliminate this problem when running them at 90º to the sound source, back to back aiming away from each other due to the lack of the rear diaphragm. This creates the spacing and time difference.
This is just my thoughts on all of this...
how about healy with a jecklin disc ? wouldn't that solve the problem for LD folks ?
even with SD mics (akgs, oktavas), i always noticed a "smushed" middle of the stereo image when running healy method, something that I thaought would be solved by a disc.