Topic: what setup would you run in this situation?

[ozarkbilly]

I'm taping my first-ever show next Tuesday at Continental Club in Tulsa OK (Langhorne Slim and O'Death).  My choices of gear are:

Core Sound Binaurals > CS batt box > Edirol R-09
Church Audio cards > R-09
Church Audio cards > CA ST9000 pre > R-09

It's a small-ish club (250 or so capacity) and the show is on a Tuesday in Tulsa, so I'm not expecting it will be anywhere near capacity.  Both acts are acoustic with drums, guitar, upright bass, and occasional fiddle/banjo.  I'm not bringing a stand, I'll just be bringing in my bag that I've been experimenting with mic placement on and sitting it on a tabletop as near to front & center as I can get.  I've taped myself noodling around on the banjo & guitar with the CSBs attached to the bag strap and facing directly outwards to the sides from one another, and also with the CA cards in both a rough ORTF and a rough X-Y attached to the bag and/or strap.  These all sound identical to me in this situation, but I wonder how it would change with increased volume, more competing sounds, etc.

I realize that its A) gonna be my first time taping and B) not with the most expensive of equipment.  Having said that, what do you feel would give me the best results?

http://www.myspace.com/langhorneslim
http://www.myspace.com/odeath

[Belexes]

My vote would be the CA cards > CA Pre > R-09.  I think that pre will give +10 dB if you need it. (my 9100 gives +20) You can get great results with that little R-09, don't discount it, especially given the 24-bit capability.

I'm a former CSB user and I *thought* they were a great pair of mics until I moved to the AT's, the Senns, and heard results of what the CA Cards can pull.

[ozarkbilly]

yeah the ST9000 pre gives +10 or +30

[3-Fan]

I would use option #3.  Seems like you would have the most flexibilty since you will have the preamp in line and could adjust your gain (+10 or +30 IIRC).   Going line in on the R-09 has been rumored to be less noise that going mic in.  With acoustic shows and a battery box, you probably will have to boost you recording post.  While with the pre in line, you more than likely won't have to boost as much.  You will more than liekly get a cleaner finished recording if you boost with a preamp compared to boosting in post with software.

Just a note on the Church 9000, make sure you run the knob to full all times.  It only varies the output volume, not the internal gain.  So in essence, even though you may be peaking at -6 on the R-09, you may be still clipping the recording.

[DaveG73]

If you could run a stand I would say it will be your best bet.

Either way I would go CA Cards>Pre>R09. (I use the same set up into an iRiver).

I Set the Pre to +10, Input level max, then start with the gain on the recorder at +3 to +6. I usually try to judge levels from PA music being played before the act comes on stage. (Assuming that the performance is amped/Pa'ed). Mics DIN (ish) but whatever your preference will suffice.

If you get a stand, try to run about 6-12" above average head height, 7' is usually what I aim for, which should give you a decent clean recording, with enough crowd to maintain the atmosphere of the show.

If you can't get center and front, try standing and clipping the mics to your person at a point as high as possible, and stand still.

If you can't get anywhere central, aim the mics at a stack. Sometimes a stack tape is better than no tape at all.

Most of all enjoy the show, if you get a tape afterwards then consider it a bonus.

(I am sure more experienced people will chime in with their opinions).


Good Luck.

Dave.

[ozarkbilly]

OK it looks like option 3 is the one to go with.  Now for even more newbie-ishness.  On the ST9000 pre I pretty much always see people advising to set the gain at either +10 or +30 depending on situation and to run it with the knob all the way up.  What is the point of the knob if prevailing wisdom says to run it wide open at all times?  Also, just to make sure I at least have a fighting chance at getting something listenable, is this what I want to do:

1.  CA mics into input jack on pre
2.  output jack on pre into line-in on R-09
3.  pre set at +10 and knob cranked, leave it alone from here and adjust on recorder itself
4.  start with R-09 on +6 input and adjust if levels indicate.  Is the goal to have the levels as clos to max as possible without the peak light coming on? 

Thank you for bearing with me, and +Ts for the help so far.

[3-Fan]

The 9000 preamp does not have a gain control ( the knob is for ) output level.. It should be left at full unless you want to attenuate below the three gain settings that are available via the toggle switch.. For example there are three gain settings 0-db ( UNITY GAIN ) +10 AND +30 DB. If you wanted to get +15 db you could set the preamp to +30 and use the knob to attenuate back to +15 but your internal gain structure would still be +30 db it would just be that your attenuating the output of the fixed gain preamp.. But your not changing the actual gain of the preamp so the input could still overload.

I found this out the hard way.  +30 is probably too much gain for what you will be doing.  Like others have said, set the 9000 on +10 and cranked all the way and then start adjusting the R-09 to peak somewhere around -6db.

It is important to enjoy the show first and formost and not be worried about pulling a good show.

[DaveG73]

1.  CA mics into input jack on pre
2.  output jack on pre into line-in on R-09
3.  pre set at +10 and knob cranked, leave it alone from here and adjust on recorder itself
4.  start with R-09 on +6 input and adjust if levels indicate.  Is the goal to have the levels as clos to max as possible without the peak light coming on? 

Thank you for bearing with me, and +Ts for the help so far.

Sounds like you pretty much have it.

If you are recording 16bit aim to peak at around -3db but at 24bit aim lower. I believe around -6db is where people usually go, although I don't have any experience in this area.

Most Important thing to remember is that you can always boost your levels after the show, but you can do bugger all if you overload/clip badly.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

Dave.

[ozarkbilly]

It is important to enjoy the show first and formost and not be worried about pulling a good show.

oh definitely no worries on this point.  That's why the mics are NOT going to be on my person.  I'm a big Langhorne Slim fan and he doesn't come around my way very often, so I plan on having a good time.

[nameloc01]

The more often you worry about getting a good recording...the more often you will get one. Thus..thoroughly enjoying it more than once.     good luck.