Topic: Inward Reverse ORTF? (read: not DOH-RTF)

[shaggy]

Trying to figure out arrangements of caps in a Kangol....help me out here if you can:

A) typically the arrangement is like this in the front brim:  \\    // (head located at the bottom, 17 cm spacing)

but with longer caps and trying to get some space in between it is difficult to conceal them in this small but handy area of the Kangol.  Arranging the caps so they face inward seems to overcome this problem (and alot of these japanese tapers do this here with their cards and shotguns on t-bars NOT for same reason....which to me is odd).

B) the arrangement I am thinking :  //     \\  (head at bottom the 90 degree angle is perserved as well as the 17cm spacing)

This would be much better for AK40 caps where the  cable is rather stiff behind the active assembly and the cap is longer than a Schoeps cap/active assembly.   but I can see a problem with the configuration as there is proper spacing but the signal from the from the right or left will arrive later at the respective caps than with the top configuration (and we are talking like 100s microseconds later, not  whole miliseconds).  What is more important to imaging?  spacing or distance to the source (of caps reletive to each other and source).  Some people get all finicky with XY and a case can made for this in that regard.  But I am more concerned with spacing and angles.

[sunjan]

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but I'm dealing with just the same issue here. And Shaggy never got any replied in the first place... 

Until now, I've always ran my AT853 cards in XY configuration, with the same "mount".
But I picked up a an oversized K-ng-l knockoff that will more or less allow me to run ORTF, with the mics in each corner of the brim.
So I'm modelling on a DIY bar to get the spacing and angle right.

Is ORTF considered to be the optimal configuration for cards mounted in "constricted places" (given the limited width allowed)?

And would it still be useable if I switch to my subcards or hyper caps? Or should I space them differently?

[ArchivalAudio]

I used to run my 853a's
"ORTF"
crossed
R | L 
still at 55° from center and 17cm or (~6.75 inches) apart
cause I read somewhere that ORTF could be run crossed  and misinterpreted that

I realize that it was wrong

however
the way the low freq's pick up
it seemed to be a great summing of the lows while still acheiving a nice seperation and image

for a number of years I ran a "modded" 110°ORTF
crossed
R | L

 like this /   \
            R    L
the angle for R & L  being 55° from center or = 110°

I'd be curious if anyone else ever tried this
and what results they could perceive?

-- Ian

[shaggy]

Yeah, kinda baffled me that no-one answered for almost three years!  I mean, people will beat on deadhead 3.14...... just for being fat and a piker until the thread is pages and pages long but not one person had even an inkling of what I thought was a valid problem to wrap our taping obsessed minds around.  Sheesh, go figure!

[Matt Quinn]

Yeah, kinda baffled me that no-one answered for almost three years!  I mean, people will beat on deadhead 3.14...... just for being fat and a piker until the thread is pages and pages long but not one person had even an inkling of what I thought was a valid problem to wrap our taping obsessed minds around.  Sheesh, go figure!

I'm guessing it has to do with the gag rule on stealth talk around these parts.

[ArchivalAudio]

should I have not replied?

[flipp]

should I have not replied?

Some folks would say yes, you should have not replied; others don't care as long as you don't post pics; and yet others don't care at all. Let common sense be your guide.

[ArchivalAudio]

when I ran
inverse ORTF
typically they were
on stage for a matrix
or open on a stand
never stealth

so for replying to such an old post

peace out

[jerryfreak]

a great reason why 4v's own

[shaggy]

should I have not replied?

I want people to reply and I think it is kosher since I never once mention the naughty word.  I guess if someone to do a search for 'K-a-n-g-o-l', maybe.  I dunno why there is such extreme sensitivity about it, I mean, I understand not posting pics or promoting the behavior but I bet 75% of the people here have done it or are doing it regularily.  I just think that someone should have replied a long time ago with some knowledge of psychoacoustics.  There is alot of needless crap on the boards and I thought I had posted a valid technical question and yet, nothing for three years!  I love those boards that brow beat some errant members needlessly....NOT!

a great reason why 4v's own

I bot some 4Vs a few weeks after the post  The whole two cable thing and the length of the AK##>LC active head was giving me a headache trying to fit it all in there and make set up with mics in Kangy simple/trouble free.  I hated the newer LC3KA cable, it tangled too easily.  The older LC3 is a bit stiffer and less prone to twisting and supercoiling.  And the lemo end mates with the SX-MS/LS2 without bodies so if there is an issue with twists, it can be worked out easily with letting the cable dangle and unwind itself!  So I dumped the LC3KA and got some LC3s, bought some mk4v>kcy 250/0 for a single cable/ease of set up arrangement and never looked back at this two cable inward reverse arrangement with the Neumann actives in the Kangy.

[kirk97132]

when I ran
inverse ORTF
typically they were
on stage for a matrix
or open on a stand
never stealth

so for replying to such an old post

peace out

Ian, don't sweat it you're a stand up guy!  I think replying and sharing information is a good thing.  Hope we get to spend some time taping together again soon.  Take care, Kirk

[JackoRoses]

should I have not replied?

I want people to reply and I think it is kosher since I never once mention the naughty word.  I guess if someone to do a search for 'K-a-n-g-o-l', maybe.  I dunno why there is such extreme sensitivity about it, I mean, I understand not posting pics or promoting the behavior but I bet 75% of the people here have done it or are doing it regularily.  I just think that someone should have replied a long time ago with some knowledge of psychoacoustics.  There is alot of needless crap on the boards and I thought I had posted a valid technical question and yet, nothing for three years!  I love those boards that brow beat some errant members needlessly....NOT!

a great reason why 4v's own

I bot some 4Vs a few weeks after the post  The whole two cable thing and the length of the AK##>LC active head was giving me a headache trying to fit it all in there and make set up with mics in Kangy simple/trouble free.  I hated the newer LC3KA cable, it tangled too easily.  The older LC3 is a bit stiffer and less prone to twisting and supercoiling.  And the lemo end mates with the SX-MS/LS2 without bodies so if there is an issue with twists, it can be worked out easily with letting the cable dangle and unwind itself!  So I dumped the LC3KA and got some LC3s, bought some mk4v>kcy 250/0 for a single cable/ease of set up arrangement and never looked back at this two cable inward reverse arrangement with the Neumann actives in the Kangy.

It is my understanding certain security for certain bands have and will frequent this board for information on this subject. It is my impression that it's best to ask in pm questions.
While it sort of is defeating the purpose of a board it is for the better for the community at large.

[kirk97132]

^^^
yeah maybe if there were no reference to the "type of stand" that was being used it would be MORE informative and less obtrusive?

[sunjan]

^^^
yeah maybe if there were no reference to the "type of stand" that was being used it would be MORE informative and less obtrusive?

Point taken, posting modified...
That explains why I'm being hit with T- recently