Topic: AKG C414B-XLS windscreens

[Brian Skalinder]

FWIW, I just received a pair of Neumann WS89 windscreens for my AKG C414B-XLS.  After measuring the XLS at 48mm wide x 37mm, I was torn between the WS89 (~46mm inner diameter) and WS87 (~56mm inner diameter), but went with the WS89 since I was concerned the WS87 would prove too large.

And...the WS89 fit!

A snug fit, that is.  On first application, while pushing the w/s down onto the mic, the leading edge of the w/s got stuck mid-way down the grill.  So while pushing, I gently pulled the w/s down onto the mic, rotating the mic and gently tugging in small increments for each side of the XLS.  I let the w/s sit for a while on the mics, then took them off and let them sit again until the w/s reverted to its original shape.  (The w/s internal hole is round, while the XLS are boxy.)  On second application, I pushed the w/s down til the leading edge caught the main body of the mic, where the grill meets the body.  I then gently pushed/pulled it on the rest of the way.  I don't know if they'll loosen up enough to push them on all the way without switching to gentle pulling at the grill/mic body intersection, but it's easy to do, doesn't take very long, and they're secure.

In hindsight, I neglected to take into account the diagonal "diameter" of the XLS.  Based on my measurements of 48mm wide x 37mm deep - and if I remember the Pythagorean Theorem correctly - that would make their diagonal "diameter" ~60mm.  So, maybe I should have gone with the WS87, I wondered?  But I don't think so.  The WS87 inner diameter is ~56mm.  The XLS, given its boxy shape, would only contact the w/s interior at the mic's corners, leaving space on the front/back and sides.  Space into which wind might flow in breezy conditions.  So while I didn't think it completely through up front, it seems I made the proper choice. 

2007-02-14 - Edited to add:

Added some pics.  As you can see in pic 04, the WS89's leading edge catches a bit on the squarish lip where the 414's mic body meets the grill.  A gentle tug in each corner slots the windscreen all the way on.

01 - Side by side


02 - Side by side, end view (mic bottom)


03 - Side by side, end view #2 (mic top)


04 - Partially on, gentle tug


05 - Full on

[Massive Dynamic]

Since I am also thinking about picking up the new 414s and screens for outdoor shows, I took your measurements and did a couple of calculations. The Pythagorean Theorem would indicate a diameter of ~60mm, but I thought of another way to calculate this.

From your measurements, the perimeter of the mic body would be 170mm (48 + 37 + 48 + 37).
The interior circumference of the WS89 would be ~144mm (C=D*pi), or 144=46*3.14.
The interior circumference of the WS87 would be ~176mm (C=D*pi), or 176=56*3.14.

The WS87 seems to be the closer match, but it could also be too loose, as you mentioned, which would be worse than too snug. Maybe someone has a pair of WS87 they would let you borrow?

[Brian Skalinder]

Since I am also thinking about picking up the new 414s and screens for outdoor shows, I took your measurements and did a couple of calculations. The Pythagorean Theorem would indicate a diameter of ~60mm, but I thought of another way to calculate this.

From your measurements, the perimeter of the mic body would be 170mm (48 + 37 + 48 + 37).
The interior circumference of the WS89 would be ~144mm (C=D*pi), or 144=46*3.14.
The interior circumference of the WS87 would be ~176mm (C=D*pi), or 176=56*3.14.

The WS87 seems to be the closer match, but it could also be too loose, as you mentioned, which would be worse than too snug. Maybe someone has a pair of WS87 they would let you borrow?

Nice work!  I like your approach above, but I don't think it addresses the shape differences - basically fitting a square peg into a round hole.  I'm not sure my approach does either, though!  If the w/s inner diameter is smaller than the square peg (mic), the shape doesn't make much difference (unless it's much too small).  If the w/s inner diameter is larger than the square peg, the shape comes into play.  Unfortunately, I don't know anyone local with WS87s to test for certain.

[spreadheadtom]

+T brian...where did you pick them up at?  I ran stock screens for Mud Island WSP.  not real windy, but no noise at all.  I do need some beefier ones though.

 Tommy

[Brian Skalinder]

I didn't search extensively, but best price I found at the time was Jack's Music, $35.97/ea (drop-shipped from Dale Electronics Corp, but I couldn't find an online retail space for them to see if they have similar or better pricing).  But I see Froogle just came up with another option - SynthPlanet, $27.21/ea, but I think they're in Europe, so shipping would jack up the price significantly. 

[Massive Dynamic]

I like your approach above, but I don't think it addresses the shape differences - basically fitting a square peg into a round hole.

Yeah, I can see where a stiff windscreen would want to keep its circular shape and not conform the rectangular shape of your mics. How far down does the WS89 come? Well below the mesh screen of the 414s? If so, could a rubber band be used to seal the opening if using the larger WS87?

[spreadheadtom]

have either of you tried the stock screens for the ADK tl's?  i sorta liked their fit 

[Brian Skalinder]

How far down does the WS89 come? Well below the mesh screen of the 414s? If so, could a rubber band be used to seal the opening if using the larger WS87?

Well below the grill, all the way down to the AKG emblem on the body.

have either of you tried the stock screens for the ADK tl's?  i sorta liked their fit 

Nope.  Didn't fit all that well, eh?

[nic]

I was wondering about this as well.
my XLS arrived yesterday and damn, these mics are small/light! (compared to other LDs)

side question:
the diaphragm is internally shocked, correct? (the 4 posts the diaphragm is connected to).
debating on just using the clips instead of the big-ass shocks...nice t-bar though!

[spyder9]

Dudes,

Pythagorean Theorem?  How about trying SIN/COSIN/TANGENT to reach your optimal measurements?  Just a suggestion.         

Hopefully, someone, like Windtech, will make beefy screens for them.  Brian, have to tried the Dead Rats I made for the 414s?

[Massive Dynamic]

side question:
the diaphragm is internally shocked, correct? (the 4 posts the diaphragm is connected to).
debating on just using the clips instead of the big-ass shocks...nice t-bar though!

I'm curious to know how well the internal mount dampens shocks. To test the Audix micro shockmounts I used to have, I hooked up my mics in a quiet room, dialed in the gain on my preamp to a standard setting for concerts, and watched my meters as I tapped my knuckle on the stand. I got peaks up to -8, putting them in the clearly audible range, and I promptly got rid of those mounts. For comparison, when I rigged the mics into an AT8410a, peaks of -24 were typical.

Maybe someone could try this experiment and see how much more shock dampening you get with the shockmount versus the internal shock. I'd like to know how well it works, too.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Brian,  can you post a picture of the screen on the mic sitting in the H85 shock mount on your stand with the windtechs?

[Brian Skalinder]

Brian,  can you post a picture of the screen on the mic sitting in the H85 shock mount on your stand with the windtechs?

A bit sloppily set up, so not quite aligned properly, but I think you'll get the idea.  Two options with the WS89 screens:  slide them -all- the way on the mics, in which case the bottom edge of the screen gets a little squished as one tightens the stock H85 shockmount.  The screen doesn't get squished in the actual clamp portion of the screen, i.e. the piece that physically secures the mic, just the outer diameter support ring.  Alternatively, one may slide the WS89 screens not quite all the way down so the screens are completely free of the outer diameter shock support ring.  The pics below reference the former - screens all the way on and squished a bit by the shockmount support ring.

No screens, front



No screens, side



Stock screens, front



Stock screens, front



WS89 screens, front



WS89 screens, side

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Thanks very much for the pictures.   I was wondering how the foam mates with the mount.  It looks like that is the way to go.

Have you used those enough to get a sense of how they affect the response curve?  WS89 has 3db attenuation at 15K and I see that the XLIIS has a bump at 15K for onmi, wide, and card settings.  Do you hear a flattened response?   And with the hyper response being more flat do you hear any roll off?

[Brian Skalinder]

Thanks very much for the pictures.   I was wondering how the foam mates with the mount.  It looks like that is the way to go.

Have you used those enough to get a sense of how they affect the response curve?  WS89 has 3db attenuation at 15K and I see that the XLIIS has a bump at 15K for onmi, wide, and card settings.  Do you hear a flattened response?   And with the hyper response being more flat do you hear any roll off?

Definitely no problems with the mounts + windscreens.  I've used these a handful of times, mainly at RockyGrass, mostly cardioid XY and Blumlein.  I've not noticed the -3 dB ~ 15k mentioned on the Neumann website, but then again I've not done any direct comparisons on v. off.  I figure any effective wind protection will attenuate HF to some degree, and I'd rather have the mild attenuation from these screens than wind-rumble and wind-blast noise.