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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: tkyt99 on June 10, 2012, 05:21:56 PM
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I'm new to this forum and relatively new to recording. Having worked recently with a friend's SD 722 and a pair of great Schoeps mics to record classical violin and piano for a CD, I'm thinking I would like to get into something like this as well. However, like many I'm not ready at this point to sink that kind of money into an SD 722 or 7xx. There is info on the forums about the Edirol R-09HR combined with SD MixPre with pretty good results. However, I'm having trouble finding out how a USBPre2 used as a stand alone pre would compete with the MixPre into the Edirol. The price difference is not huge between the two used or new from what I can see. Any help at all would be appreciated!
p.s. at this point, I'm not planning to use computer based recording....also, portability is not an issue....could I use my laptop as to power the USBPre2 while it is being used as a stand alone pre??
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I'm new to this forum and relatively new to recording. Having worked recently with a friend's SD 722 and a pair of great Schoeps mics to record classical violin and piano for a CD, I'm thinking I would like to get into something like this as well. However, like many I'm not ready at this point to sink that kind of money into an SD 722 or 7xx. There is info on the forums about the Edirol R-09HR combined with SD MixPre with pretty good results. However, I'm having trouble finding out how a USBPre2 used as a stand alone pre would compete with the MixPre into the Edirol. The price difference is not huge between the two used or new from what I can see. Any help at all would be appreciated!
p.s. at this point, I'm not planning to use computer based recording....also, portability is not an issue....could I use my laptop as to power the USBPre2 while it is being used as a stand alone pre??
1) The biggest difference is mic input transformers versus no transformers. Slight sound coloration (could be good, could be bad, depends on the objective), and increased CMRR so if you're doing really long cable runs (>50 feet) in bad RFI environments that's something think about.
2) Yes, you can power the usbpre2 off of a laptop while using it in standalone mode. I do that and have it operate as a DAC that way. Just hold the PC/Pre Meter button while you plug it in and it will only look at power through usb instead of both power and signal.
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thanks for the useful info so far...
So, I have another question - pretty basic...if I run the SD USBPre2 through line out to the line in of the Edirol, am I bypassing both A/D and DAC of the SD?? Or is the signal coming out after the DAC? Will I be entirely dependant on the A/D and DAC of the Edirol?
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thanks for the useful info so far...
So, I have another question - pretty basic...if I run the SD USBPre2 through line out to the line in of the Edirol, am I bypassing both A/D and DAC of the SD?? Or is the signal coming out after the DAC? Will I be entirely dependant on the A/D and DAC of the Edirol?
there is a block diagram that illustrates that in the manual (there is a PDF on their site IIRC). A simple email to sound devices about it will clear that up if you can't find the answer.
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If you find out the answer, please post it here.
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From an email with Sound Device's (2010)
By default, the outputs of the USBPre 2 only carry signal from the computer. There is a DIP switch that configures the USBPre 2 to send whatever signal is going to headphones to the outputs. This is how the USBPre 2 can be used as a preamp / converter in Stand-alone mode. When this option is engaged and the Monitor Mix knob is turned all the way to "PRE", the signal path from analog inputs to analog outputs is fully analog.
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I've been trying to figure out the differences between the USBPre2 and MixPre-D. It seems the USBPre2 can pretty much do everything the MixPre-D can but is cheaper. What am I missing?
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I've been trying to figure out the differences between the USBPre2 and MixPre-D. It seems the USBPre2 can pretty much do everything the MixPre-D can but is cheaper. What am I missing?
I've been looking at both of these units on and off for a while and here's a quick list of things the USBPre2 doesn't have: tone generator for calibration/slate mic, sunlight viewable/adjustable meter brightness, external & internal powering, balanced input transformers, mid-side matrix control, AES digital output, 12 V phantom power, left-center-right panning, clean headphone amp, return signal confidence monitoring while in standalone mode.
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I think you should compare the two tech specs:
http://sounddevices.com/products/usbpre2.htm (http://sounddevices.com/products/usbpre2.htm)
http://sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm (http://sounddevices.com/products/mixpre-d.htm)
The main differences I see:
- The usbpre 2 has slightly better specs and has a much more robust AD stage - the analog stage was taken from the 7xx series recorders - requires USB power Source
- The MixPre-D has input transformers and should sound more like the older MixPre - sound should be a tad warmer sounding - runs off batteries
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clean headphone amp
the headphone amp is sort of shitty. It has gobs and gobs of current though. If you've got low impedance, but high current requiring headphones, they are great (so thats... what... orthodynamic/planar headphones only?)
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I've been trying to figure out the differences between the USBPre2 and MixPre-D. It seems the USBPre2 can pretty much do everything the MixPre-D can but is cheaper. What am I missing?
I've been looking at both of these units on and off for a while and here's a quick list of things the USBPre2 doesn't have: tone generator for calibration/slate mic, sunlight viewable/adjustable meter brightness, external & internal powering, balanced input transformers, mid-side matrix control, AES digital output, 12 V phantom power, left-center-right panning, clean headphone amp, return signal confidence monitoring while in standalone mode.
I'm curious about the headphone amp thing...
I haven't had a chance to try my "version 2" USBPre yet, but when I had the v1.5, the headphone amp was one of the things I really liked about it. Sounded very clean to me & had plenty of power to drive my 600-ohm AKG K240DF's.
I can't imagine they would have downgraded the headphone output in the new one. Did they??
The specs look pretty good on it:
THD+N (22 Hz - 22 kHz measurement bandwidth)
0.05% max (HEADPHONES output, 2 V rms output, 600 ohm load)
Oh... not sure if it's been mentioned, but another thing the MixPre-D has that the USBPre-2 doesn't:
"Dedicated mic-level output on locking TA3 connector for unbalanced camera inputs"
(primarily for video on DSLRs, from what I understand)
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
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I haven't had a chance to try my "version 2" USBPre yet, but when I had the v1.5, the headphone amp was one of the things I really liked about it. Sounded very clean to me & had plenty of power to drive my 600-ohm AKG K240DF's.
I can't imagine they would have downgraded the headphone output in the new one. Did they??
It's an impedance issue as best I can tell; my (sensitive) Denon 7000s which are in the range of 28-32ohm hiss with them all the time, but my 50ohm (and not as sensitive) LCD-2s are silent even when I turn the volume all the way up on a silent wav.
It has gobs of current; to listen with the headphone out I end up turning down the output knob almost all the way so I can get the volume knob above the channel imbalance that occurs with headphones.
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
I'm with Kirk, though I have also found some hiss with the headamp running ATH-M50s. I haven't tried my Denon 7000s into it so I can't comment on that, but I'm sure page is right.
I really like the USBPre2; for me the USB powering is a huge plus because I can run my deck and it off of one Tekkeon. The syncing is a key feature, as Kirk notes, and I also really like the sound of the preamp.
It's just a very versatile, well-built unit and I think it gives a significant upgrade to the sound of machines like the R-44 and DR-680, much more so than modding the pres. It's not my main headamp; I really only use it that way if I'm mixing stuff on the go with my MacBook Air, and it's certainly good enough for that.
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
I should also add that I run a Sound Device MP-2 and Lunatec V3 so I feel like I have the best combination of preamps and that they give me every feature set I would ever want between the three of them.
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The MixPre and MixPre-D have input transformers like page mentioned, but they really don't color the sound like output transformers do. Transformers can have multiple functions, in this case they're used to boost gain without coloration, they are there just for long cable runs. Both pres do not color the sound, they are incredibly neutral.
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
I should also add that I run a Sound Device MP-2 and Lunatec V3 so I feel like I have the best combination of preamps and that they give me every feature set I would ever want between the three of them.
Thanks for all this info Kirk, I have a set of MDR7506's and they are fairly common field cans so perhaps SD had them in mind when designing the USB-Pre2's HP amp. I'm still undecided if I'd go with MixPre-D, USB-Pre2 or a Lunatec V3, the latter has no headphone output at all. Have also wondered if Sound Devices might refresh the SD302 by making a SD302D, that could be awesome. Was considering the USB-Pre2 for dual use as a standalone field preamp and as a DAC for my workstation but ended up finding a nice deal on a factory refurbished DAC1 direct from Benchmark so the DAC functionality is no longer a requirement for me.
It would be nice to find a rental house to try all these before making a purchasing decision.
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
I should also add that I run a Sound Device MP-2 and Lunatec V3 so I feel like I have the best combination of preamps and that they give me every feature set I would ever want between the three of them.
Thanks for all this info Kirk, I have a set of MDR7506's and they are fairly common field cans so perhaps SD had them in mind when designing the USB-Pre2's HP amp. I'm still undecided if I'd go with MixPre-D, USB-Pre2 or a Lunatec V3, the latter has no headphone output at all. Have also wondered if Sound Devices might refresh the SD302 by making a SD302D, that could be awesome. Was considering the USB-Pre2 for dual use as a standalone field preamp and as a DAC for my workstation but ended up finding a nice deal on a factory refurbished DAC1 direct from Benchmark so the DAC functionality is no longer a requirement for me.
I dont think that there is a big difference in sound. the Pre2 might be a tad brighter...maybe. I got the V3 for word Clock output. But for the money the Pre2 will more than hold it's own against the V3. The Pre2 has optical and spdif. The V3 spdif and AES. Both require external battery. And FWIW V3 is now discontinued. But even so yo are gonna spend 800-850 and the pre2 new is 650. Id say get the Pre2. if you don't like it it should be an easy resell since there are not any around used.
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As a user, Here is what I think. USBPRE2......Digigal is right but I equate it to a difference between audio and video use. Well beside transformers. I am not going to get into tech talk about specs, and small differences between them. Headphone amp has LOTS of power but is not quiet enough for some. I have seen complaints "that when I turn it all the way up I hear a hiss" If I turn the volume all the way up on my sony MDR7506 cans I can't even get them near my ears. You cannot beat it for the ease of use and as a soundcard. It does require external power though. I personally would never care about panning. I am recording separate channels anyway and can pan whatever I want in post. The BIGGEST advantage and THE REASON I bought it is because it will sync to an external SPDIF singnal. This makes syncing two DR-680's effortless. I really think the Pre-D is gear just for the DSLR/Camera market. I also think that you could see the meters in daylight but I can't say that I've noticed it one way or the other.
I should also add that I run a Sound Device MP-2 and Lunatec V3 so I feel like I have the best combination of preamps and that they give me every feature set I would ever want between the three of them.
Thanks for all this info Kirk, I have a set of MDR7506's and they are fairly common field cans so perhaps SD had them in mind when designing the USB-Pre2's HP amp. I'm still undecided if I'd go with MixPre-D, USB-Pre2 or a Lunatec V3, the latter has no headphone output at all. Have also wondered if Sound Devices might refresh the SD302 by making a SD302D, that could be awesome. Was considering the USB-Pre2 for dual use as a standalone field preamp and as a DAC for my workstation but ended up finding a nice deal on a factory refurbished DAC1 direct from Benchmark so the DAC functionality is no longer a requirement for me.
I dont think that there is a big difference in sound. the Pre2 might be a tad brighter...maybe. I got the V3 for word Clock output. But for the money the Pre2 will more than hold it's own against the V3. The Pre2 has optical and spdif. The V3 spdif and AES. Both require external battery. And FWIW V3 is now discontinued. But even so yo are gonna spend 800-850 and the pre2 new is 650. Id say get the Pre2. if you don't like it it should be an easy resell since there are not any around used.
Exactly.
This is why I rolled the dice and picked one up, even after my somewhat bad experience with the USB-Pre 1.5 (plus I've been assured that the problems with the D/A have been straightened out). I really wanted to hear what this pre sounded like with the AKGs, and there aren't any samples out there, so I guess I'll be the guinea pig ;) I figure if it sounds like ass I can just turn around and sell it for a minimal loss...
It gets here Friday... looking forward to trying out that headphone amp and then hopefully in the field next week
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I can tell you without a doubt, it WILL NOT sound like ass. It will reveal any flaws of the mics, AND in fact it can make mics that might sound a little lacking sound like impressive superstars. Case in point a set of ADK SC-T mics I recorded Warren Haynes Band with. Don't get me wrong, I love the ADK mic line but paired with the USBPre2 the mics really shined! http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=549535. Recording was put up against Nak 300's and a set of sleeper Toa K2 mics I own and even the ADK TL's which are fairly well known around here. IT just sounded amazing like a completely different set of mics. (All BT's here: http://bt.etree.org/index.php?searchsss&cat=182&incldead=1&page=50) Like the V3 very clean and transparent. Gobs of mic gain and the ability to output Four different types of signal at the same time(SPDIF, OPTICAL, XLR, & RCA) AND two headphone outputs.
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Is the USBPre2 able to do "on-the-fly" matrix recordings in stand alone mode? Is there a field case available for it, Portabrace doesn't list one but are there any others out there at this point?
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NO "Matrixing" only single(stereo) input is possible. Selectable on front panel. Dunno bout cases.
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NO "Matrixing" only single(stereo) input is possible. Selectable on front panel. Dunno bout cases.
Okay got it, so those look like a couple more difference's btw. the SD units. I believe the MixPre-D can do a matrix and has a field case available.
I've still got my DigiMod UA-5 BM2p+, have considered selling it and only hanging on to it for the occasional matrix. If eventually deciding to go with a USBPre2 then the UA5 would still be necessary if ever doing an "on-the-fly matrix".
Not ruling out USBPre2, just making notes and weighing options for future plans. Haven't found a rental house with these units as yet but maybe one will turn up.
Choice is pretty much narrowed down to just the SD units, especially considering your experienced opinion that the sound quality is effectively the same as a V3.
Thanks for your feedback, it is greatly appreciated.
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I think, the Pre-D 3/4 input option does not have any level control like the UA-5 does. I guess it could be done by just mic level adjustment as long as you can get enough mic mixed into the line level signal without clipping the outputs. I' a assuming that the mix will be summing all inputs. SO if your line input is hot then you would not be able to add much mic level before you reach 0 dBFS. Imiss my UA-5 it is a great little piece of gear:-) But then again I don't record any two track stuff anymore.
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Hmm, it's a bit awkward and confusing but this is what I'm seeing in the MixPreD manual which seems to indicate that an unbalanced stereo -10 RCA (or properly attenuated XLR or 1/4") board feed via 1/8" RTN input could be matrix'd with individual level control of (3 & 4) inputs and mics, am I misinterpreting this?
Inputs 3 and 4
Each channel of the Tape Return input can be routed to various locations. When additional inputs are needed (such as when multiple wireless receivers are used) the Tape Return channels can be independently routed to the main output bus of the MixPre-D to act as additional inputs (3 and 4).
To cycle between the available routings of the Tape Return signal, hold down the Input 1 Button (for Channel 3) or the Input 2 Button (for Channel 4) and press the Headphone Controller. An LED in the right meter will illuminate to represent the destination of the routing:
-30: RTN L (Channel 3) or RTN R (Channel 4)•
-18: Left output bus.•
-16: Center (left and right) output bus•
-14: Right output bus•
When any channel of the Tape Return input is routed to the main output bus, the RTN Monitor Source is disabled.
The TAPE RTN (Input 3 and 4) Input is an unbalanced stereo input that is suitable for tape or line level devices only. There are no microphone preamps on Inputs 3 and 4.
Channel 3 Level Hold Input 1 Button and turn Headphone Controller. Adjusts input level of input 3 (when set to something other than RTN left).
Channel 4 Level Hold Input 2 Button and turn Headphone Controller. Adjusts input level of input 4 (when set to something other than RTN right).
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The reason there isn't a case for the USBPre2.. It isn't considered a portable field mixer while the Mixpre-D is.
Get the right tool for the job.
Mixpre can run on external power, and if that goes, can be switched to internal power without affecting the audio.
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@ Digigal, maybe I misread it. I only saw the input enabling feature. But then again I don't own one