Author Topic: Tube Gear Questions (Read 7346 times)

som · « **on:** May 27, 2007, 09:20:53 AM »

I recently dipped my toe into the tube waters with an Almarro A205A MkII (thanks, Chris!) and have really been enjoying it. I have a couple of questions about tube gear in general:

- I can start listening immediately after turning the amp on (it fades in over about 10 seconds or so). Is this okay to do, or should I let the tubes warm up a bit?

- When I do start listening w/o warming up, I notice about 20-30 minutes in that it just starts to sing, that *everything* seems to improve...tighter bass, clearer highs, warmer midrange, bigger soundstage, more focused imaging. Am I delusional, or is this for real?

- Sometimes I forgot to turn the amp off and my leave it on with nothing playing for 6 hours or so. Is this as bad (from a tube wear perspective) as listening for 6 hours? Or is it pretty nominal wear?

- In a related question, if I am going to listen for a while and then, say, mow the lawn and be back in 90 minutes, is it better to turn off the amp, or just leave it on?

Thanks for any info y'all can share.

macdaddy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2007, 10:43:03 AM »

you found the one drawback to listening immediately after powering up - it takes a while before she sings...

some people leave their amp on 24/7, so no prob leaving it on for six hours...

the only drawbacks to leaving the amp on all the time are your power bill and your tube life, but then again, you use the most power powering up, and that is also what puts the tubes through the most stress (if i understand it all correctly)

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2007, 11:15:28 AM »

Quote from: macdaddy on May 27, 2007, 10:43:03 AM

it takes a while before she sings...

But the singing is so much sweeter

A lot of SS gear shows this effect too. The Tascam CDRW700 analog outs sound much better after the unit has been continuously powered for about a week - it's like listening to two different decks. The CJ SC25 sounds much better after being powered for more than three days and the designers state this in the manual to explain why there the unit has no power switch, just a mute button. When I was running these in my system, there was an obvious degredation of sound if either unit had been powered off for a period for several hours.

The previous owner of my PV14L told me he left it powered all the time - those tubes last several thousand hours so just replacing them every couple of years isn't much of an expense. The power tubes I wouldn't do it.

som · « **Reply #3 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:19:31 PM »

Quote from: macdaddy on May 27, 2007, 10:43:03 AM

the only drawbacks to leaving the amp on all the time are your power bill and your tube life, but then again, you use the most power powering up, and that is also what puts the tubes through the most stress (if i understand it all correctly)

So, if I'm going to be listening on and off on a given day, it probably makes sense to power up and leave it on all day, vs. powering up and down several times.

cheshirecat · « **Reply #4 on:** May 29, 2007, 02:37:54 PM »

Quote from: som on May 29, 2007, 12:19:31 PM

Quote from: macdaddy on May 27, 2007, 10:43:03 AM
the only drawbacks to leaving the amp on all the time are your power bill and your tube life, but then again, you use the most power powering up, and that is also what puts the tubes through the most stress (if i understand it all correctly)

So, if I'm going to be listening on and off on a given day, it probably makes sense to power up and leave it on all day, vs. powering up and down several times.

I've seen many an argument on this topic. Basically its a personal preference. If the amp will be unattended I'd generally not leave it on lest it shit the bed. I generally turn my amp off before I go out for any extended period of time, but ymmv.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2007, 08:39:13 AM »

my Odyssey gear MUST be left on. you can hear it "warm up" over two weeks otherwise. and the sound from day to day is dramatic until everything charges up and is ready to stay consistent. then its magic time.

som · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2007, 10:43:29 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 31, 2007, 08:39:13 AM

my Odyssey gear MUST be left on. you can hear it "warm up" over two weeks otherwise. and the sound from day to day is dramatic until everything charges up and is ready to stay consistent. then its magic time.

Is this tube gear?

(Sorry, haven't kept up with the details of your ever-changing system!)

If so, how significant is this to tube life? Is "idle but on" as bad as "on and playing" from a tube life perspective?

cheshirecat · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2007, 11:06:03 AM »

Quote from: som on May 31, 2007, 10:43:29 AM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on May 31, 2007, 08:39:13 AM
my Odyssey gear MUST be left on. you can hear it "warm up" over two weeks otherwise. and the sound from day to day is dramatic until everything charges up and is ready to stay consistent. then its magic time.

Is this tube gear?

(Sorry, haven't kept up with the details of your ever-changing system!)

If so, how significant is this to tube life? Is "idle but on" as bad as "on and playing" from a tube life perspective?

Yes, they are about the same (idle but on and on and playing), if the heaters are on, you are wearing the tubes... i wouldn't worry too much about it though. Its like lightbulb lifetime... 2500hours or whatever may not sound like a lot, but it is.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2007, 06:31:43 PM »

If powered continuously, 2500 hours is a little over three months. I wouldn't want to be replacing a quad of TS6550s every 3-4 months.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2007, 08:40:49 AM »

no, SS gear

cheshirecat · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2007, 11:48:13 AM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on May 31, 2007, 06:31:43 PM

If powered continuously, 2500 hours is a little over three months. I wouldn't want to be replacing a quad of TS6550s every 3-4 months.

haha.. good point... I'm thinking tube life is a lot longer than that though... I've had the same set of Mullard xf2 EL34s in my amp for 2-3 years and they still test strong.

boojum · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2007, 01:08:33 AM »

As one who grew up with tubes and all their quirks and was around when the audio world swooned at the much better sound of transistor amps only to be told later that tube amps were better I find all of this damned funny. I have yet to see any proof other than "sounds better" of tube vs transistor. And please do not tell me you can always tell the difference. Stereophile, the self-anointed experts in the field were faked out of US$10,000 years ago by Bob Carver. They bet him he could not make a solid state amp sound as good as tubes. They refused to show him what was in the tube amps yet he mimicked all they threw at him. He would listen to their amps, go back to the motel and mod his solid state amps and bring them back to test. This was years ago. Very few tube freaks know about this and those who do rarely trumpet it. Check with Stereophile. There is just too much mumbo-jumbo in the tube world and not enough science to suit me.

In another forum there was a fellow who could always distinguish MP3's from WAV files. So a fellow I know played him 10 double-blind tracks for him to separate into MP3 and WAV. The fellow was quite sharp and easily knew which was which. However, they were all MP3 files. The tested fellow never again spoke to the tester, and took his golden ears away to a far off land. LOL YMMV

som · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2007, 07:05:08 PM »

Tubes look sexier.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2007, 07:39:26 PM »

Hey Babby...check out my 10 glowing phalis's ?
dont they ....sound nice? How about some Barry White?
that one there on the end looks like it might blow soon.
I've got an idea...lets watch Caligula !

OOK · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2007, 09:07:53 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on June 11, 2007, 07:39:26 PM

Caligula !

Boon chi chi chi boon boon......

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2007, 07:50:40 AM »

Its good to be king

cheshirecat · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2007, 11:22:15 AM »

So I guess what this all boils down to is chicks dig dudes with tubes.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2007, 04:09:35 PM »

well d'uh!

Invisible · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2007, 06:04:41 PM »

cheshirecat · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2007, 10:21:36 PM »

haha, that system would take up half my apartment.

Evil Taper · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2007, 10:28:32 PM »

even order harmonics

som · « **Reply #21 on:** June 15, 2007, 08:19:25 AM »

With all the tube glow, the candles seem a bit redundant....not to mention they're heating up one of the Carys!

chris · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:46:52 PM »

SOM,

I've been running my Zen (se84c) amp in my system for the past 6 years, at least a couple hours a day. All I can say is that running the amp more often than not, has improved the sound. However, concerned about high pwr bills, tube costs, etc...I do pwr down each night.

My amp sounds best after it's been fired up for an hour.

By the way, pulled the trigger on Ed's cube. WHOA!

Chris E.

som · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2007, 01:43:24 PM »

Chris -

+T on the Cube! Really makes a difference, huh? Did you have your Horns in the corners before? I assume the Cubes integrates nicely? Tell more!

chris · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2007, 05:08:45 PM »

SOM,

Yes, on the horns in the corners. Actually my room is perfect for the horns (10x18 more or less).

So, I decided to call Ed one day to just "talk" about the cube. 40 mins later, my order was placed. Ed is such a great guy to bs with.

So, the cube arrives. I managed sneak it home and hook it up w/o Mom seeing it. It's hidden behind a chair. After connecting it up, noticed a good amount of hum, but Ed has a solution by adding another ground to the cable. Cured the hum.

How's it sound? Let's just say that I cannot listen to the horns w/o it. Even w/the lowest of low volumes, the horn/cube combo is a GIANT presentation. I mean GIANT! I swap back and forth w/my sources (cd and TT), both sound unreal. It's a must have. That's all I'll say.

I can finally listen to all the shows I've taped over the years. The low end freqs are back in a big frickin' way!

Enough w/the rant. Enjoy the weekend! I'm heading to panic in less than 24 hours hopefully.

Later
Chris E.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2007, 12:20:40 AM »

man, I want to hear that setup.
Mr. Evens...my long lost brother. how are you?
and Mr. Sacks? I haven't spoken to him in a million years.

chris · « **Reply #26 on:** June 24, 2007, 10:59:19 PM »

Mr Nick,

We are all the same. Saw mr sacks this weekend at a rippin panic show. I am trying to keep up w/you with regard to the kid count. Rowan is 3 1/2, Adah 1 year!

Hope Sara and kids are doing well.

Take care!
C Evans

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #27 on:** June 25, 2007, 07:26:17 AM »

man, you dont want to race w/me. my shit is PO-TANT !
glad to hear everyone is well.